Close



Results 1 to 4 of 4
  1. #1

    Default Holley 4180C question

    I know 5.0 HO used one 4180C, and truck 5.8 & 460s used a different 4180C.

    What are the differences? Seems the truck variety turns up a lot, but the 5.0L version comes up less often.

    Did the difference come down to EPA/CAFE fun and games--or is it substantive and important?
    Former owner (new) of a 1985 Coupe, 1986 Coupe #23 and as of 2016, owner of a Flip Roof 1985 Coupe.

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckG View Post
    I know 5.0 HO used one 4180C, and truck 5.8 & 460s used a different 4180C.

    What are the differences? Seems the truck variety turns up a lot, but the 5.0L version comes up less often.

    Did the difference come down to EPA/CAFE fun and games--or is it substantive and important?

    Three reasons.


    A, the Trucks were 4BBL 4180/4190/4195 fourwhole years years before the 5.0 HO in Mustang GT's and Capri RS's


    B, the passenger car emissions required 3 times more emissions curbing devices.


    C, Holley was going after the Thermoquad, and Spreadbore Qjet market, as the EPA had shortlisted ACF and RRP as gross polluters in the zinc oxide de-swarthing production process where Iso propanol and other chemicals were used in making the hangers and rod and casting processes. Colt Industries was likewise under pressure to use some of the Weber parts and save on casting processes, so the new generation carbs were much cheaper to build, but were not as good in a performance V8.

    The 2305, 4360 and 4010/4011 were failures, and Holley looked back to what it had always done to get some sales. The whole 4180/4190/4195 line had a bunch of extra leaning and enriching crutches to make it CARB legal. In the end, BAR and CARB made 4-bbl Holley's impossibly difficult devices to certify, even though they had a trick for every kind of tune philosophy.

    General details:-

    The 1979-1988 4-bbl 4180/4190/4195 C, E, or EG carb is both an OEM Ford and Chevy carb and an aftermarket white box carb under six different part numbers that works in a 302, 350, 351, 366, 370, 429, 454 or 460, car, truck, 4X4 or 8500 pound plus truck.

    The 5.0 HO passenger car 4180C has very specific crutches for EGR, ignition advance during warm up, a fuel inlet HEIC hot engine idle compensation valve and the propane method for four corner idle calibration, and the change in choke pull-down for 1985 onward. Unlike the truck 5.8/6.1/7.0/7.8 liter versions, it had 103 emissions devices, the trucks, only about 31.

    1. There are generally two variants....the 4180C and the 4190 EG.

    2. The smaller capacity 5.0 liter used four corner idle control to ensure idle emissions were pegged back.

    3. On the bigger engines, the two stage power valve circuit was a potential opening point under part throttle, so the dual or single snorkel air cleaner had a special white TVS relays that differed from the 5.0 HO 4bbl.

    4. The engine speed governor was used on the 370/429 trucks engines, and the whole line was rolled out in 1979 first in big capacity 429's as a 4300D and 4350 replacement.

    5. Automatic versions existed as well.


    6. It died in 1989 in low GVWC trucks and then the bigger F series 600 and 700's kept it for a few years. Chevrolet had it in its big high hundredweight C trucks and it was sold as a white box OEM replacement carb till the mid 90's.

    7. 15 years of production will be mostly 4190's and 4195's with the EG suffix vacuum governor version the most common.


    See page 40-50 from http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/1985...justments.html

    The 2-bbl 2300 EG/ 2380 EG carbs were also made to pass stringent emissions for the 370 Big Blocks in Carpenter F trucks and buses. So page 35 to 39 also covers some of the basics.

  3. #3
    FEP Supporter
    qikgts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Rockledge, FL
    Posts
    1,458

    Default

    To muddy the waters... Mustang/Capri 4180's were different in each year they were used so 83, 84, and 85 were not the same. The calibrations/choke set up's differed some. It seems that also the cars calibrations were not the same as the trucks.

    Pretty well known/documented truck differences are below...

    The truck carbs are known to have 2 idle adjustment screws in the baseplate unlike the Mustang/Capri that had the 4 corner type.
    Trucks also had a traditional Holley idle speed adjustment screw hole that was tapped but no screw was present.
    There is also another difference with regard to a tube located on the drivers side of the truck carb that isn't there on the Mustng/Capri version; it connects to the power valve chamber, through a hole drilled in the primary throttle shaft, so that the power valve chamber is vented at WOT.
    One not-very-obvious difference is the truck carbs do not have the port that bleeds some manifold vacuum into the distributor port.
    Truck carbs have several different throttle arms, and usually have a kickdown lever.
    The truck choke housings are different. The vacuum port to the pulloff is at the upper right corner, vs lower right on the 5.0 carbs.
    The truck carbs use a different index plate behind the choke cover.

    Much of the above comes directly from posts made by the most honorable and most knowledgeable JACook, Marauderator in Chief!
    '85 GT

  4. #4

    Default

    Wow! Thanks! Looks like I won't try to use a 4180C TE on my '85 HO--not because of the EPA, but because it sounds like it has entirely different hookups than the 4180C CA.
    Former owner (new) of a 1985 Coupe, 1986 Coupe #23 and as of 2016, owner of a Flip Roof 1985 Coupe.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •