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  1. #126

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    Current status:



    Took it to a friend of mine. He says it was rebuilt at some point with Motive gears and everything looks really good inside. End play is fine. Forks are realigned and ready to go. He had to take the top cover and forks apart to get them right. There was a burr at the front of the shaft and one other thing (forgot what) that were stopping it from moving the way it's supposed to. I guess the speedo gear was a little chewed up, so I'm going to replace that before I put it together.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  2. #127
    FEP Power Member Jerry peachuer's Avatar
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    Nice!!

  3. #128
    FEP Super Member NAVYCAT's Avatar
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    this is the bushing tool i haveName:  91209.jpg
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    2017 Ford Explorer Sport (DD) 1986 Capri 5.0 Silver/Red
    1969 Falcon XW GTHO coupe (SOLD) went to Australia
    Past 4 eyes-
    4th. 1981 Capri "White" Black Magic I6
    3rd. 1984 Capri RS V8 Black/grey
    2nd. 1984 Capri RS V8 White/red
    1st. 1984 SVO Grey/grey (traded it for a worn out 1970 BOSS 302)
    Both '84 Capri's vin# were 10 away from each other
    U.S. NAVY 1980-2009

  4. #129
    FEP Power Member Jerry peachuer's Avatar
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    Fancy.. looks like very nice piece
    Removal for mine was simple because tailhousing was removed i can understand the complexity with tail housing still on

  5. #130
    FEP Super Member NAVYCAT's Avatar
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    it works great........ BUT lol
    2017 Ford Explorer Sport (DD) 1986 Capri 5.0 Silver/Red
    1969 Falcon XW GTHO coupe (SOLD) went to Australia
    Past 4 eyes-
    4th. 1981 Capri "White" Black Magic I6
    3rd. 1984 Capri RS V8 Black/grey
    2nd. 1984 Capri RS V8 White/red
    1st. 1984 SVO Grey/grey (traded it for a worn out 1970 BOSS 302)
    Both '84 Capri's vin# were 10 away from each other
    U.S. NAVY 1980-2009

  6. #131

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    I got under the car today and took a measurement of the pressure plate fingers to the clutch disc.



    Hopefully that tells someone something.

    Also I found some washers I can use as spacers under the pivot ball stud.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  7. #132

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    I would use an adjustable clutch cable (the one with the threaded end with a pointed nut and a flat jam nut). screw the firewall adjuster all the way in towards the firewall, thread the lower pointed nut at the end of the clutch cable so it just touches the back of the clutch fork dimpled hole. There should be a little space at the top of the clutch cable where the plastic body touches the firewall adjuster, there should be about enough space to fit a dime in between the plastic clutch cable thing and the outer metal firewall adjuster. This is how I always done it, you can fine adjust from there.

  8. #133

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    Thanks, I may still go to an adjustable cable, but since my MM one is new, I'm going to try everything else I can to give them the chance to deliver on their smoothness promise.

    Here's some more answers to questions we had. Here are the clutch forks, new on the left.



    Here are the pivot ball studs. Again, new on the left.



    They are both the same size as the parts they replaced, but whether the old parts were correct, I can't say.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  9. #134
    FEP Power Member Jerry peachuer's Avatar
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    Look at the pivot ball stud on left specifically at the heads
    one on the left appears smoother of a cone

    Notice the shift fork on the left
    Specifically at the rivets

    Not sure if it has anything to do with your build but either way those parts are not the same my opinion

  10. #135
    FEP Power Member Jerry peachuer's Avatar
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    Remove clutch disc and just mount pressure plate should be near 1.800-1.900 range what ever the distance is you modify pivot ball height

    Pivot ball height to outside of bellowing should be near 3.200 for reference
    Different clutch sets are not the same

  11. #136

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    So glad you were finally able to get the tail shaft off!
    Looks like you’re on the right track, you’ll get it sorted out
    Good for you for sticking with it.
    79 Zephyr, 4.6L 4v/4r70w swap, with team z front and rear suspension, 8.8 and upgraded brakes and coil overs. Running Holley Terminator X Max.

  12. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry peachuer View Post
    Look at the pivot ball stud on left specifically at the heads
    one on the left appears smoother of a cone

    Notice the shift fork on the left
    Specifically at the rivets

    Not sure if it has anything to do with your build but either way those parts are not the same my opinion
    Well, I think the pivot ball difference is just due to the fact that the old one is all chewed up. It's got major gouges on both sides.

    As for the fork, couldn't that just be manufacturer differences? I thought what we were looking for is noticeable difference in length.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  13. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry peachuer View Post
    Remove clutch disc and just mount pressure plate should be near 1.800-1.900 range what ever the distance is you modify pivot ball height

    Pivot ball height to outside of bellowing should be near 3.200 for reference
    Different clutch sets are not the same
    Okay, I'll do that.

    Massacre, thanks. I'm starting to believe we might actually get somewhere doing all this.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  14. #139
    FEP Power Member Jerry peachuer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrEFI View Post
    Well, I think the pivot ball difference is just due to the fact that the old one is all chewed up. It's got major gouges on both sides.

    As for the fork, couldn't that just be manufacturer differences? I thought what we were looking for is noticeable difference in length.
    Length correct but rivets could interfere on back side again you may be fine just watch fitment

    This may be a better design by supporting the back while throwout bearing clipped in or its just what you stated manufacturing differences to hold the spring steel to the fork

  15. #140
    FEP Power Member Jerry peachuer's Avatar
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    Are the forks "arc" near the same when you align them on the side
    Meaning do they both arc the same or similar bend

  16. #141

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    They do appear to be the same. It's hard to tell in a picture.



    New one is in front. The old one is not OEM, it's a Chinese-made piece of crap. It wraps around farther than my new one so that it looks higher at the ends, but the horizontal surfaces are the same.

    Here's the end of the pivot ball to outside of bellhousing. Seems good.



    And here is pressure plate fingers to flywheel sans clutch disc.



    To be clear, it's the recessed surface around the mounting bolts, not the surface the clutch disc interacts with. Is that what we're looking for? If so, it's WAY off...
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  17. #142

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    Brad,

    You need to install the clutch, bell housing, clutch fork, ball stud and throwout bearing. Before doing this, measure the distance from the trans/bell housing interface plane to the geometric center of the ball stud. This will be the center of its spherical head. Once these parts are assembled, push the cable end of the clutch fork forward, until the throwout bearing just touches the clutch PP fingers. Now measure the distance from the trans/bell housing plane to the geometric center of the concave surface in the end of the clutch fork for the cable ferrule. Now draw a line between these two pivot points in the clutch fork.

    When viewed from the top of the car or the bottom of the car, the pivot point at the cable end of the clutch fork should be about 0.5" - 0.75" closer to the trans/bell housing plane than the ball stud pivot point is to the same plane. This is to ensure that the clutch fork has the longest average length. When the clutch is pushed down far enough to shift the car, the outer pivot point will then be 0.75" further from the plane, than the inner pivot point is.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  18. #143

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    Brad,

    In photo #2 of post 141, you are not measuring to the geometric center of the ball stud. You are going to need to subtract around 3/8" from that measurement to correct for that.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  19. #144
    FEP Power Member Jerry peachuer's Avatar
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    Fingers to friction surface of flywheel

  20. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry peachuer View Post
    Fingers to friction surface of flywheel
    I don't know how they expect you to do that, but my solution was to tape the thinnest straight edge I have across the gap. It was very hard to be exact. The little ruler being thin liked to flex and bend. Here is from the tip of the PP fingers to the ruler. It was .02" thick.



    So, minus ruler thickness we get 2.296. Or if you take my other measurement above 2.879, and subtract my measured difference between the flywheel surface and the recessed area by the bolts, .57", we get 2.309. So somewhere in that neighborhood, I guess. So, by that method, the pivot ball needs to come out about .4", it sounds like.

    Jack, I will do the cable end to trans interface plane tomorrow. For the pivot ball end, if we take my measurement of 3.287 and subtract 3/8" (.375) we get 2.912. I'm just putting all the numbers here, so I have them straight. I know you can do math.
    Last edited by ZephyrEFI; 07-13-2020 at 06:46 PM.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  21. #146
    FEP Power Member Jerry peachuer's Avatar
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    Name:  Screenshot_20200713-225031_Gmail.jpg
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    If you look at your gold clutch fork in post #25 if its adjusted as described it appears to be too far forward in the fork opening rectangle window ( my opinion)

    Try to follow me
    If the pivot pin was to be adjusted out or put harden washer behind the hex approx.250 it will take your leading edge of your gold fork back towards more of center in your fork window

    This would also take some of the cable "slack" with it giving you more of a halfway screw in firewall adjuster adjustment if i recall you mention its screwed out more than halfway and no pedal still

    By shimming your pivot stud out it would improve your clutch fork to window relationship as a visual check not math

    Once you add your disc you would be pushing the pp back the thickness of the disc prob the new disc measures out around .318 thick but this will vary as will pp fingers height

    What to do
    I would stack up some thick washers for mock up and put them under the hex of the pivot ball and see if this improves your forks leading edge to bellhousing window relationship

    The fork should be perpendicular ish at at 50 percent of clutch pedal action

    More of a visual

    At the end of the day if you push your clutch in while in gear it shouldn't be hard to turn as mentioned earlier some effort yes but not grunting

    When fork is more towards center ish in window it can apply more pressure than it being forward to the fingers which also appear higher than stock height so this adds to even less pressure to apply to the fingers

    Too much pressure is just as bad by over stressing fingers

    I'm certain once you know your measurements from above you will have more accurate info for professionals to help diagnose it but I think your closer than you think

  22. #147

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    I think I follow you. But yeah, I'm pretty surprised I'm getting somewhat reasonable numbers with this. It seems like what usually happens when I'm doing measurements for something like this, I get numbers that are way out of bounds from what they should be for some unknown reason and I'm no closer to solving the problem. This time is different, how about that.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  23. #148
    FEP Super Member NAVYCAT's Avatar
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    hey Brad, question I have is when did all these problems start?i
    2017 Ford Explorer Sport (DD) 1986 Capri 5.0 Silver/Red
    1969 Falcon XW GTHO coupe (SOLD) went to Australia
    Past 4 eyes-
    4th. 1981 Capri "White" Black Magic I6
    3rd. 1984 Capri RS V8 Black/grey
    2nd. 1984 Capri RS V8 White/red
    1st. 1984 SVO Grey/grey (traded it for a worn out 1970 BOSS 302)
    Both '84 Capri's vin# were 10 away from each other
    U.S. NAVY 1980-2009

  24. #149
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    One tip ..... when looking at output shaft gears to replace the one that's chewed up -- be sure to consider tooth counts on the various gears available.

    LMR has a good guide on speedometer gears. It will tell you how many tooth to run on the speedometer side with a given output shaft tooth count. You will notice that some ratios are a non-starter with the various gears Ford used.

    Look at what ratio you have right now and what ratio you plan to run in back and pick the gears that will work accordingly. Otherwise you might get to have the joys of doing it all again or having a speedometer thats all F-ed up. (bleeping cars sometimes)

  25. #150

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    I think the problems started after I pulled the trans back out to install the new clutch kit itself (and the rear main seal I'd forgotten).

    Yeah, I've been through that process with the speedo gear ratios. That old gear wasn't even that old; I had installed it after going to my 4.10 gears. So no worries on that! But thank you.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

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