Clutch Cable Adjustment--Maximum Motorsports Components

[Two86fiveoh's]

I did watch it after the bolts were tightened, there was still some noticeable flex around the adjuster.

[ZephyrEFI]

I did watch it after the bolts were tightened, there was still some noticeable flex around the adjuster.

Oh, okay. You think I should put a reinforcement panel on the front or back?

[Two86fiveoh's]

Front would be easier to install, back would be easier to hide.

[massacre]

I went back to the original post in this thread and read it again.
You suspected play between the pedal lever and the square shaft.
Then used a pedal height adjuster to try and fix that.
I’m not sure that a pedal height adjuster would fix that slop. If there is wear at the square shaft, then the cable is out of the equation.
I would try to get that connection slack-free first. That is the start of the system and the first link in the chain, if that is off, then everything else will be off.

This is just imho and I could be completely wrong but you did say that the problem was there before the pedal height adjuster, and that installing it did not fix the issue.
If you are moving the pedal and the quadrant doesn’t move, then the problem is probably between the pedal and the quadrant.
I may have missed it if you did fix the slop there, if so I apologize

[ZephyrEFI]

I tried the pedal height adjuster because it takes the place of the pedal lever at the square spot on the shaft. You attach the pedal outboard of the adjuster and then bolt them together. The adjuster had a nice new square hole, so in theory that was supposed to eliminate the slop. But... it was not to be.

I took the car to the gas station today before I got the chance to do any adjusting. I think the coming out of gear thing has more than a little bit to do with my new shifter boot. I cheaped out and didn't spring for the leather one. It didn't do it as much today though, anyway, but more work to do here.

[ZephyrEFI]

Tension the cable until the clutch releases too high then back it off a little. See if the not wanting to go into gear goes away

Back off the stops entirely and see if it stops popping out of 5th

Hey, do you think the difficulty putting it into gear could be related to a problem with thrust internally in the transmission? On my drive the other day sometimes I had to really push to get it into gear.

[Jerry peachuer]

want trans fluid are you using?
When you start replacing parts they measure out differently as a overall stacked height. for instance lmr flywheel throwout bearing clutch and bearing retainer could be too short or too long and or your input shaft splines are binding on your clutch disc and as you apply pressure ( very hard pressure at that) your possibly squeezing all of your trans internals together and your firewall is flexing as a result.. just a thought..

measure the old set up and compare to your new set up ( complete stacked height as installed in car) just lay it on a bench grab a straight edge and check it out

adjustments can be made with pivot ball (shimming) or machining it down on the flat face.
however I think a good starting point is to stick a nickel in between the cable rubber booted face at the adjuster and the firewall adjuster "tight" squeeze in between while pulling back on the cable leaning over fender and pulling towards headlights while sliding nickel in between this will get you in a zone but MAKE SURE REAR WHEELS ARE OFF THE GROUND .. car could lunge forward .

second for 5-12lbs reference.. yeah that sucks how many of us have a force gauge.. maybe try borrowing your families scale out of the bathroom and put your hand on it until you have 10lbs of force for reference.. or have the wife hold it while you sit on rocking chair and see what it takes to push it in ha ha

don't go off the deep end you have some really nice items that didn't show their results yet. I don't think it's anything more than adjustment. you have to go beyond zero slack but not too far past ( the nickle is something out of a magazine and it gets you close)

the pedal is supposed to release near the floor before half with 2" or so of free play. check to make sure your bell is doweled and seated with engine to bell block plate.. sounds like your good to go and all over it but just a thought

[ZephyrEFI]

For fluid, I'm using Mercon 3.

I don't still have all the old parts. I installed the new parts last summer. Difficulties with the engine have kept me from driving it more than a few very short trips since then.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Jerry peachuer]

Maybe new bearing retainer bound up trans internals by having too much preload.if it was same as before or no difference maybe look at parts that were always there

There is a right and wrong way to install throw out bearing under and over the steel clip
Your pilot bearing may not be in all the way
Your throwout bearing retainer may be too long or too short but being the name brand it's prob good to go

maybe take another look at the quadrant installation and pedal up/down travel distance

Make sure clutch fork is seated on pivot ball

Don't mount cable to the frame let it lay where it wants no side load

[ZephyrEFI]

Yeah, I know about the throwout bearing installation. I'd had it wrong for yeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrsssss, but now it's right. Ironic that it worked better before.

Someone else mentioned that nickel thing to me, but I couldn't picture what they were talking about. So, I want the clutch cable tight enough that when I pull on it under the hood, I should be able to JUST fit a nickel in between the clutch cable housing face and the firewall adjuster if i pull on it. And this is with the car running? That's why I'm concerned about the rear wheels moving?

[ZephyrEFI]

If I think about it some more, I guess my biggest question is, IF I SHIM THE PIVOT BALL, IS THAT GOING TO MOVE WHERE THE CLUTCH FORK SITS AT REST IN ITS OPENING TO THE VERY BACK LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE? I really can't guess whether that would be true or not.

Also, I guess there is no avoiding pulling the trans. But, what if i check the thrust/preload and there isn't enough? What do I do about it?

[Jerry peachuer]

Under the hood pull on cable with engine off and pull pretty decent on cable but not gorilla the rubber end will pull away some from the head of the adjuster and you're looking to have the nickel slip between the 2 faces with some effort to get it in there but not grunting effort and wiping sweat off your forhead effort while cussing

Just some resistance

No on running engine just good idea to get drive wheels off the ground when doing this just in case you're car and clutch are engaged and safeties are bypassed that all it can do is spin on the jack stands as worse case and eliminate Any movement if things are wonky

The clutch is suppose to release low it's also suppose to have free play
Take tape measure and on back of pedal measure to steering wheel eyeball a spot and push pedal down until you feel some resistance and measure again trying to repeat the spot

I had a clutch that was near gone that my adjuster kept loosening up and I thought I would just make a aluminum jam nit

[Jerry peachuer]

Sorry my phone reboots

Aluminum jam nut and in short this kept the adjuster where I adjusted it and this is still on my car but when you have a new clutch it's not needed and max motorsports said if it needed a nut we would of included a nut lol so no nut required but it did and does work decent

If anyone wanted to make a nut it's 5/16 wide and it's 1-1/4-12 thread pitch 7075 alum with knurled on outside ring for grip to finger tighten while on side of road
My new-ish stock clutch doesn't require this nut but a bad clutch could get a few more miles possibly - I did

[Jerry peachuer]

However the adjuster was out quite a bit on your car which makes me think your cable is either to long or quadrant is somehow clocked wrong or something should be glaring at you

I wouldn't remove the trans just yet. Just look and see if there's something odd
Not sure if you have correct cable length or cable is stretched

Hard to push makes me think clutch splines are binding on input splines or clutch is hitting bearing retainer face
Pilot bearing on aftermarket cranks don't sit flush because of a rear drilled oil hole in the main so the pilot bearing protrudes out a bit and may interfere with fitment

Preload is adjusted by a shim or whims under your bearing race and basically keeps your tapered bearings throughtour the trans end/end and your clutches together with slight pressure too tight and it can cause premature wear too loose your bearings fall out of there races and see-saw effect away from your gearset which is devastating to a gear on gear setup

If or when you pull trans grab each end and see it you can push it in and out using both hands on each end back and forth
Your looking for near zero or .003 to .005 thousands of preload

Human hair is .003
Piece of paper is .003

Don't be intimidated or afraid it sounds more than what it is

I think your cable shouldn't allow you to extend that adjuster that far out

Correction-whims ?? = 2 shims no more than 2 shims
I think I'm near .018 thousandths for shim thickness the thicker of the 2 goes against bearing race face for full support

Second my comment about aftermarket crank doesn't apply to you possibly just a scenario I came across

[ZephyrEFI]

I did address how far the adjuster was out by adding the spacer back in to the cable at the quadrant. It's not nearly as far out now.

It's not crazy hard to push the clutch in. Jeremiah can attest to that. Just harder than I expected with all new parts and MM quality. I'm much more concerned about the fact that it doesn't seem to be releasing or engaging all the way.

It's not that I'm afraid to pull the trans, just annoyed (P!ssed?) because since my engine is moved to the rear mounts on the k-member, there is ZERO clearance between the bellhousing and the tunnel. It makes it near impossible to line up the input shaft with the clutch disc and push it straight in. The engine doesn't have room to tip back either. Hits the firewall pretty much right away if you try to tip it back. It SUCKS. Especially without a hoist and by yourself. I spent a good couple of weeks trying to get it in last summer.

[Jerry peachuer]

Try removing trans from bell housing then remove bell housing from engine

Sucks but lighter and trans to bell is only 4 bolts

Then Bell to block is much lighter to handle obviously

Your pedal effort is most likely the clutch not the MM cable
The MM cable if not bolted to the frame rail per instructions is installed correctly it is not only a high quality part but designed around OEM design style

Just don't compare it to hydraulic factory clutch in daily driver car

Your hardest part is removing exhaust if you remove trans then remove the bell it also lets you see inside without removing everything

[ZephyrEFI]

Yeah, I forgot to mention that. It's not bolted to the frame rail. That was in the directions not to do that.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Jerry peachuer]

If your bell housing isn't sitting flush to the block due to hitting firewall or trans tunnel and it's tightened down this will do all kinds of bad things for alignment and shifting and pretty much all of the above as you described

Eliminate what you know and focus on what was left over pcs and if the result is same as before with new parts I would think something is common to what's being re used for a part

Bellhousing alignment is critical but if the block plate is used and the alignment dowels are used and the block to trans face is not all dinged up and the bellhousing to block face isn't all dinged up then it should be at least close enough for factory castings


These faces should at least be filed easy and quick to remove surface imperfections
By hand not air tool

Only thing I can think is check to see if your disc is rotated 180 out
It is labeled flywheel side

Or you have a out of the box diaphragm but it is same feel as previous so

[Jerry peachuer]

Paul at modern driveline is a big help. Reach out to them and bounce these things off them.. he went beyond what I expected for help on a trans issue last year for my new setup

He was great help. He even asked for pictures and he assisted through social distancing trans rebuild 101

I'm not saying there isn't other resourceful shops out there but I would definetly be resourceful and pick the brains of the people that do this everyday and in return all they want is to earn your business

[ZephyrEFI]

Argh, I just watched another video about clutch forks and pivot balls, and all it really said is your pivot ball stud could be at the wrong height, and you might need to shim it, but it gave absolutely no information about how you KNOW it's at the wrong height or how you'd know it's at the right height! All we know is having it at the wrong height is bad. Thanks guy. Very informative. Ugh.

Hell, at this point I don't even know if that's my issue and if changing the pivot ball height will do anything for me! Everything else is where it's going to be, except maybe the flywheel could be shimmed, but again, it's brand new! And I've heard it's pretty hard for the flywheel manufacturers to screw up where the rear surface of that flywheel is supposed to be.

[massacre]

You may have seen this, not sure if it helps or not

https://bangshift.com/forum/forum/ba...l-is-set-right

https://www.svtperformance.com/threa...ments.1028068/

[erratic50]

If I think about it some more, I guess my biggest question is, IF I SHIM THE PIVOT BALL, IS THAT GOING TO MOVE WHERE THE CLUTCH FORK SITS AT REST IN ITS OPENING TO THE VERY BACK LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE? I really can't guess whether that would be true or not.

Also, I guess there is no avoiding pulling the trans. But, what if i check the thrust/preload and there isn't enough? What do I do about it?

Yes -- if you make the pivot ball longer by shimming it or gettings an adjustable or if you put shims in behind the flywheel on the crank flange it will move the fork back in the slot and get the cable into a much better range of motion. Drastically cuts down on pedal effort BTW

[ZephyrEFI]

Thanks for the answers guys. Makes me feel better I can actually accomplish something when I take the thing apart.

And Jerry, I'm not ignoring your suggestion I just feel weird about contacting someone I haven't bought anything from. Not everyone is as great about sharing information freely as our Mr. Hidley.

[NAVYCAT]

Hey Brad, I just started to read from the beginning again and I have a few questions... more like comments lol
1. is the clutch cable to long? wrong one maybe?
2. when I did my trans (T5) I ordered a new fork and it was to short it looked like yours in the pictures then sent me a longer one
3. maybe you need a 3 armed quadrant, when I did mine I found the cable was to long but then I saw the end of the cable (under dash) and connected to another arm on the quadrant and then adjusted cable and was fine. I would check these before pulling the trans again

[ZephyrEFI]

Hey Brad, I just started to read from the beginning again and I have a few questions... more like comments lol
1. is the clutch cable to long? wrong one maybe?
2. when I did my trans (T5) I ordered a new fork and it was to short it looked like yours in the pictures then sent me a longer one
3. maybe you need a 3 armed quadrant, when I did mine I found the cable was to long but then I saw the end of the cable (under dash) and connected to another arm on the quadrant and then adjusted cable and was fine. I would check these before pulling the trans again

1) It says in the MM instructions they make the cable a little long so it can work with a variety of applications. That's why they include the spacer.
2) Your whole drivetrain is from a '95, though right? Those use different bellhousings and longer forks. Mine is from a Fox.
3) I believe my problem is that my clutch is not engaging or disengaging all the way because the range of motion is compromised by the clutch fork being in the wrong spot. At this point, I think I need to take it apart just for my own peace of mind. So I can fiddle with it and see what I can learn, much as it's going to suck.