Clutch Cable Adjustment--Maximum Motorsports Components

[NAVYCAT]

Could it be the clutch like the pressure plate? you have done everything else

[erratic50]

The geometry of some replacement flywheels are terrible straight from the factory vs the original stock Ford part.

That problem is a significant portion of the reason things like adjustable pivot studs even exist.

Another reason is that every time you make a resurfacing pass on a flywheel it gets further and further away from the release fork moving the clutch and pressure plate forward and out of ideal operating range.

Also there's the thrust bearing. As it wears you can get more and more forward thrust on your crank until its no longer tolerable to the engine.

Cable shims .... sure they can help to a point but the more you have to shim your cable the more pedal effort will be required because everything is operating out of ideal range.

Factually adjustable pivot studs are one of many of the approaches to solving the same problem.

One that gets talked about less but is also can be very beneficial is spacers behind the flywheel. These https://www.summitracing.com/search/...ms-and-spacers

After over an ungodly number of miles and 13 clutch jobs and being down to the thinnest flywheel a shop would even touch my original 86 flywheel needed a crap-ton of spacers. I had so many spacers stacked up that it would just barely center itself on the crankshaft as I tried to put the bolts in. As long as the spacers are flat and the bolts are torqued evenly there's absolutely no problem with running these spacers. Not even running a stack surprisingly.

I had to put washers in behind the pivot stud towards the end of running that crappy old flywheel too for the same reason.

Back when I was doing these bad methods I was so flat broke I could barely come up with the money for the $50 mcparts store replacement clutch disc when my car that was being ran as a daily driver and it needed one. Many times the expense of a pressure plate or paying $15 to have the flywheel turned were entirely out of the question. Several times the "turning" was accomplished by silicon carbide sandpaper glued to a piece of thick glass I had around that I had bedded into some sand on the garage floor or a make-shift bench. The alternatives simply weren't in my shoestring budget.

Thankfully over time the correct methods proved less necessary as expenses than you would think .... once I got good at that nonsense. Frankly I hope to never need to do again but they are life skills although no one needs the stress.

[Jerry peachuer]

Anything that spins needs to be balanced.. adding any weight or extending of anything spinning is definetlety possible but...
Resurfacing is questionable on a cast flywheel but doable and probably done daily
The cast process is not a sfi approved part because as you know the hazards

The sfi part costs more because its not just a superior part over cast but there's more steps involved and raw material is more money instead of a sand and metal process

I know shoe string budget very well but...

If thrust bearing was at .009 to .012 on a stick car you woukd be ok but if it was .015-.20 you may be on borrowed time with your engine
And when you spin that engine you are not in a safe spot. 09 thick of sheet metal and cast alum bellhousing from having a flywheel on your lap and a 2 piece shoe on your floor

Never seen it other than pictures but hold the flywheel in your hand and imagine it spinning at 6000 rpm
Again it can be done but... what if

[ZephyrEFI]

Well, something is certainly different between my flywheel/clutch disc/pressure plate and "typical OEM". I wasn't prepared for that, obviously. I had only installed a clutch one other time, and I did a buncha things wrong. I was just lucky it continued to work as long as it did.

[NAVYCAT]

it must be something simple staring you right in the eye (not making fun of your pain) but it must be......

[Paul1958]

Inside the bellhousing. This is with the clutch fork moved all the way back.



Not sure if anything can be determined from these, but here they are.

This picture has had me scratching my head for a while. Perhaps its just the lighting/shadows but it seems to me that the pressure plate spring fingers appear to be still compressed even though the release bearing is not pressing on them.

Paul

[ZephyrEFI]

Brad,

You need to install the clutch, bell housing, clutch fork, ball stud and throwout bearing. Before doing this, measure the distance from the trans/bell housing interface plane to the geometric center of the ball stud. This will be the center of its spherical head. Once these parts are assembled, push the cable end of the clutch fork forward, until the throwout bearing just touches the clutch PP fingers. Now measure the distance from the trans/bell housing plane to the geometric center of the concave surface in the end of the clutch fork for the cable ferrule. Now draw a line between these two pivot points in the clutch fork.

When viewed from the top of the car or the bottom of the car, the pivot point at the cable end of the clutch fork should be about 0.5" - 0.75" closer to the trans/bell housing plane than the ball stud pivot point is to the same plane. This is to ensure that the clutch fork has the longest average length. When the clutch is pushed down far enough to shift the car, the outer pivot point will then be 0.75" further from the plane, than the inner pivot point is.

Okay, so here's what we've got. For the pivot ball end, if we take my measurement of 3.287 and subtract 3/8" (.375) we get 2.912. On the cable end, it's 1.946.



I kind of thought the inner surface of the fork would be about the geometric center of that half-sphere there. Although, I'm hoping I'm wrong because that would mean there's absolutely nothing wrong here, and it's a full inch closer to the trans/bellhousing plane.

[Jack Hidley]

Brad,

In the photo above, the TOB is touching the PP fingers. Correct?

[Jack Hidley]

Brad,

Assuming that the end of the clutch fork travels a total of 1.5", then the mid travel position of the end of the fork will be 2.70" (1.95" + 0.75"). The ball stud height is 2.91", so that means that the stud really needs to be shortened 0.21" (2.91" - 2.70"). Make sense?

[ZephyrEFI]

Brad,

In the photo above, the TOB is touching the PP fingers. Correct?

I think so, but I guess I'm not sure if something came out of alignment and wasn't quite where it would be if the transmission was installed and everything. I'll have to get under there and see if I can make sure of it.

[ZephyrEFI]

Brad,

Assuming that the end of the clutch fork travels a total of 1.5", then the mid travel position of the end of the fork will be 2.70" (1.95" + 0.75"). The ball stud height is 2.91", so that means that the stud really needs to be shortened 0.21" (2.91" - 2.70"). Make sense?

I suppose so. The idea is that the clutch fork should be perpendicular to the centerline of the car at mid travel?

I might have to let that sink in a bit. All this time I've been thinking I had the opposite condition.

I ordered an adjustable pivot ball stud today. It's longer than the original, so I guess that means I be cutting a big chunk off the end to get a shorter stud. I have everything I need to reassemble the trans, so I tried to get that done today, but the top cover is fighting me. I'm pretty sure all the forks are where they need to be, but when I test fit the cover on and slide it over, it won't go all the way over so the bolt holes line up.

[Jerry peachuer]

make sure your forks are mounted correctly as in they are 2 different sizes and orientation specific

Its tricky because you have to come in from right to left and down
Passenger side of trans lower top cover down and your top cover will be overhanging the gearbox by about 1to 2 inches and as you come down you come to the driver side as well

All in one motion

I believe your getting hung up on the linkage on the driver side for reverse

So recap
Out -down -in towards you one motion kinda thing

Bigger fork goes on first gear slider its a larger in size gear also make sure sliders are not in any gear you can slide them in between the gears

[Jack Hidley]

Brad,

Yes. I think this is one of the reasons that it is important to measure these things. You can't just look at all of these parts and really have any idea about the geometry without doing so.

[NAVYCAT]

possible wrong pressure plate?

[ZephyrEFI]

possible wrong pressure plate?

I actually do have my old pressure plate. The clutch is all torqued down again, but if I decide to take it back off, I will compare them. I meant to.

[Jerry peachuer]

On my stock setup
Stock flywheel stock clutch stock pressure plate max motorsports cable kit

Throwout bearing should be against pressure plate and the leading edge of the fork should be near center of the bell window opening and approx 1-1/4 fork travel you can use that cover screw as a landmark i guess
Front of fork use straight edge and scribe line from front of fork and transfer scribe to bell housing say .500
behind the cover screw hole and push clutch in and scribe line from front of fork to bell should be about 1/2 pass the cover screw hole

Firewall adjuster is out from firewall approx 1.00 as well

Again this is working for me and no shifting issues and shifts great like any stock car would I guess

Stock bell housing and stock located pivot ball height

However my 331 and centerforce setup was a mess like this with sfi flywheel

[Jerry peachuer]

This picture has had me scratching my head for a while. Perhaps its just the lighting/shadows but it seems to me that the pressure plate spring fingers appear to be still compressed even though the release bearing is not pressing on them.

Paul

I agree with Paul

[ZephyrEFI]

make sure your forks are mounted correctly as in they are 2 different sizes and orientation specific

Its tricky because you have to come in from right to left and down
Passenger side of trans lower top cover down and your top cover will be overhanging the gearbox by about 1to 2 inches and as you come down you come to the driver side as well

All in one motion

I believe your getting hung up on the linkage on the driver side for reverse

So recap
Out -down -in towards you one motion kinda thing

Bigger fork goes on first gear slider its a larger in size gear also make sure sliders are not in any gear you can slide them in between the gears

Yeah, this is how I'm doing it, and everything seems to be in the right place. I can see when I look in there as I come down, the 2 main forks are in the right place, and the thingy that engages with the reverse lever is lining up too. As soon as I put the cover down, something is being pushed out of whack so it's between neutral and a gear. Trans does not turn freely.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Jerry peachuer]

Does trans turn freely without top cover?

If not look at 3rd gear and if possible post pic its the furthest gear by front of gearbox possible its not seated

Second when rotating make sure you have the mainshaft bearing pushed in and seating in the case otherwise it will create binding this is why I turn it upside down on milk crate so gravity is working with you
It could also be input shaft assembly theres rollers make sure they are all seated and not under the input shaft keeping it from seating

Should turn freely but without over make sure you don't slide sliders in a gear at same time
This is what the lockout lug does under the cover when you flip cover over
Make sure that's in the center before you try to assemble its hard because your unable to see its a feel thing
Once it's on put the locating screws in each corner finger tight for alignment

Shifting gears on you ( this time pun was intended) lol did you use dowel pins on your clutch and alignment tool for the disc before wrenching down in chris cross pattern ?

Appears your pp fingers are loaded... this is a visual check not math with your new vs old finger attitude to pp

[ZephyrEFI]

Yes, it turns freely without the top cover.

Can you see what you need to here?

[Jerry peachuer]

Remove your neutral safety switch
Its off the reverse arm possibly pushing it over and binding on the reverse idler loading it some

Its the ball near the arm

Or you can easily push ball in and slide arm back

This arm is giving fifth gear some action or looks like it in this photo

[Jerry peachuer]

Also looks like 3rd gear is chewing on front of case at 2 o clock
Or is this pic and casting blemish

Make sure rear bearing and mainshaft is seated to keep it away from main case in the front if it is getting into the aluminum your 3rd gear is not seated down all the way but don't let that distract you yet

[ZephyrEFI]

It's just the angle. 3rd is not touching the case, and the reverse arm is not touching the reverse light switch.

It turns really nicely with the stupid cover off.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Jerry peachuer]

The fop cover center lug can be flipped wrong so can the shifting lugs for the forks
Same shift fork connectors but specific to assembly

By the ball not on the arm will let arm fall towards center of gear box slightly not letting it line up in the slot

[ZephyrEFI]

I got under the car today and took a measurement of the pressure plate fingers to the clutch disc.

I bolted up the old clutch, and the fingers to clutch disc measurement is .949. so about 5 thousandths difference between the new and old clutch. And the old clutch is worn. I got the same difference between them when not torqued down.

Pressure plate thickness is .617 new and .615 old. If you were to ask me, it would seem consistent with what the difference should be between a new and old worn clutch. So, an explanation for all this still escapes me.

Sorry to keep switching back and forth. I'm going to bring the ****ing trans back to my friend and see if he can see what I'm not seeing. I'm done fighting with it.