Running egr system with 11r heads

[86GT5.OhNo]

hey everybody, in the process of building a new 306 for my gt. thinking of 11r 190 heads, systemax 2 intake, n-41 cam, 1 5/8 headers, catless. my concern now, is that i want to keep my egr system but the 11r heads arent emissions compliant. is there any way i can keep the egr system functional and still use these heads?

thanks

[xctasy]

It can be physically fitted with ease.


BaconB8 has 85's. Check with him.IMHO, his advice is exceptional.




http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...12#post1834512


http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-with-E6-heads

I have that combo. My car needs to pass a tough visual inspection, and I wanted all the emission stuff to be present. My heads are painted Ford grey to look stock.

With a stock cam, AFR 165's, Edelbrock performer emission manifold and 1.72 rollers the car made 280 to the wheels and around 320Lb/ft. on a mustang chassis dyno.

The car is fast and idles like stock. Most importantly, it passes smog.

It wont be riffled drilled 1/4" hole 22.5 inches along the top of each exhaust port internally with drop down bumps to bleed out the up-pstream air.

[4idfox]

There is no way to keep the egr functioning. Choose a different head.

[xctasy]

There is no way to keep the egr functioning. Choose a different head.

Thanks 4idfox.


Frank Zappa once said I wouldn't be too rough on peoples ignorance...its what makes America great!


Im glad to be a half ass who realised I answered the wrong question, because I too am ignorant, and didnt read the question properly. Sorry all.

The request was how to get EGR not AIR running, not that you can't.

A lot of things look totally impossible until you see how Ford worked around not having rear cross over water ports and whatever EGR and AIR systems legal. The EGR is convection run by internal air to exhaust metal in most Detriot V8s.

Clean Air was required on other engines that never had that jazz OEM.


V8 guys generally don't think about anything else but V8's.
Cleveland 335 guys don't think the way Windsor 5.0 and 5.8 guys think.
Everyone is so entrenched.

If you saw 3.8 Essex 90 degree V6's and the American, Argentinain and Australian variances in the various in line 3.0/3.2/3.3/3.6/4.0/4.1/4.9 six and 2.0 Pinto and 2.0/2.3/2.5 Lima 4 cylinder systems, you'd understand how simple it is to meet the visuals.




The riffle drilling of iron or aluminum heads is indeed possible, a good machinist can do it easily, and there are two ways to do it. That is how the Windsor plant heads were done, and the later Cleveland plant 302/351 Windsor D8 onwards heads


The early Thermactors on the pre 67-1/2 Cleveland plant Windsors didn't have the long riffled drilled internals, so if you use the common double hexagonal external systems, then you are golden.

Each Windsor head (C6AE-) has two port on the head, drilled to intersect the riffled drilled section
Each Cleveland 289 head (C60E-6049 M) has none. Its all external. And that's were the two four port manifold emissions trees come in.

According to Mannel book:

Thermactor Emissions - aka T/E - aka 'smog pump' - setup was only used on 1967 289 for sale in CA. This is what is seems that you have.

1967 289 engines were produced at Cleveland engine plant and Windsor engine plant with same head designs as used in 1966, however as in 1966 each engine plant used its own unique heads (C60E-M - Cleveland, C6AE - Windsor) which in turn each used a unique configuration of air injection plumbing.

Cleveland engine plant 289s used heads that when used on CA (T/E) engines were machined with individual threaded ports at each cylinder for pump air. To remove the T/E will require the plugs (8 required) that 22 showed in his post.

https://www.npdlink.com/product/mani.../107490/200398






Windsor engine plant 289s used heads that when used on CA (T/E) engines were machined for a single port in each head (front on R, rear on L) that fed an internal passage for pump air.

This is very easy, and due to the extreme ignorance of nearly everyone regards the actual way Ford did its Thermactor routing, its just one of at least four possible methods.


Again, specifically, the ways forward I ve see are are:-


1. If GT40P, you don't need functioning AIR, but you can have it bolted up on any head to pass visual inspection.

2, If alloy variants, you can chance a hooked up rear mount Thermactor porting as well

3. If its a non Thermactor head casting, just go for the 66-67-1/2 Cleveland plant Windsor variation

4. Use proper riffle drilling an create either a 66 Windsor style two port or D8 on-wards single drill systems with rear head takeoffs.



Like the early K code iron headers which can take GT40P heads with angled plug leads,
https://www.dearbornclassics.com/exh...1963-1965.html

you can fit iron headers on GT40P angle plug heads an get a compliant sleeper non header 5 liter.

Interesting, I don't think gt40s will work with my headers though. I am really looking for street performance so anything over 3500 rpm is probably wasted. I think e7 or just porting work and getting the compression up may have to be enough.

The early cast iron reproduction iron headers for 289 HiPo's allow the 90 degree chevy boot equiped GT40P's to match up.

GT40P's are the sh!+, because stock K code iron cast headers fit.

This is why the GT40P heads are so inexpensive.

Scott Drake C5ZZ-9430/1-B Mustang Exhaust Manifold

Reproductions of the original cast iron exhaust manifolds on 1965-67 K-code Mustangs and also 1967 Shelby GT-350 cars. These new reproductions have part numbers cast in C4ZE-9430-A Pass C30Z-9431-A Driver side.

Q. Post by Canadian Musclecars
A buddy of mine is working on a '66 coupe with a 289. He has installed
Ford GT-40P heads on the engine. He has also purchased a set of Hedman
long tube headers for a stock 289/302. Surprise, the headers won't fit
the heads! Does anyone know what the correct headers would be for this
application (or is there another solution)?
Thanks in advance,
Richard
68 fastback
65 GT350 clone (in progress)

A. I have a set of GT40P heads on my 302 in a 1969 fairlane. What I got to
work is a set of reproduction HI-PO exhaust manifolds from Canadian
Mustang. They fit perfect and the plugs clear just fine

In a similar way you can use the California Downstream air tubes from a Thermactor 1966 to pre mid 1967 289 2V. Again there were two plants cranking them out back then, so as long as its the Cleveland four branch per side C6OZ-6052-A rather than the twin branch per side C6AZ-6052-A, you can use external tubes. No but a zealot would care. You have to modify the left and right header tubes to suit.


Your existing headers need a drill and tap for it.



The CA market 69er Boss 302 and Cougar Eliminators and IIRC, all 1970 Boss/ Cougar Eliminators 302's also used one. The two hole Windsor plant head was also and option, but its pretty hard to fit on any head like that.

[xctasy]

And EGR is not the same thing as Thermactor passages, for those who are looking to retain the air pump.
No "P" heads come from the factory drilled for those.

Message to self....