Lowering the center of gravity by alternate design

[erratic50]

Anyone ever stopped and deeply thought about stuff like center of gravity of a vehicle. Not ride height but more about where the weight is and how close to the ground the center of that mass actually is

Look at a V8. Where is the most weight by far? On top...... V

Now think about this from another perspective — hot air rises and yet we pull the air in from the top and put the exhaust out the bottom.

What if someone would design a setup where a V8 engine is basically ran upside down? Think about how much lower the center of gravity would be.

Yea .... there are problems to overcome to do it. Even the suspension stuff is all solvable ....

Trans is pretty easy — it shouldn’t be too hard to spin a T5 on the bellhousing to keep the rest of stuff “normal”.

The first thing to think about after the oiling and cooling stuff is motor mounts but those shouldn’t be particularly hard.

The main down side might be when someone decides that motors have to come out from the bottom like a damn bug but hey, whatever works.

[dtmilsap]

Never thought of turning engine upside down, now lets see if someone can do a mid engine fox.

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[86lx]

Aluminum heads and intake do a lot to reduce weight up top


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[86MustangGtRob]

On a rear engine car it would be easier to have the exhaust exit out of the top. In the 60's, some of the Grand prix cars had the exhaust come out on top of the motor. They had it exit where the valley of the v configuration. To get our cars to have a better center of gravity. We would have to lower our engine closer to the ground. Lately I have been thinking about getting my 85 have more of the weight lower in the car.

[wraithracing]

Doesn't change the actual V design of the engine, but in the Ford 6.7L Scorpion Diesel engine they reversed the intake and exhaust design. Intake air on the outside of the heads and the exhaust is in the center. Cut down on Y pipes and exhaust tubing to flow everything into the Turbo.

I don't see a real efficient way to flip a V8 without oiling issues just due to gravity alone. Dry sump would be a necessity at that point, but would have to think more about it and finish my coffee to have any better ideas this morning.

[erratic50]

Dry sump would be the easy way. There are still issues to solve.

[BMW Rider]

I think it would be simpler to engineer a new design engine from scratch for inverted operation than it would be to try to make an existing north american V8 work inverted.

The simplest way to lower the CG is to lower the entire car. Next would be to use polycarbonate in place of all the heavy glass. This is one of the reasons SUVs are typically top heavy and prone to roll over, lots of glass and a tall stance.

[gmatt]

I think you would have a hard time getting the crank centerline low enough with an inverted v. Boxer engines lower the heads and cylinder bores significantly.

[TNT]

I think you would have a hard time getting the crank centerline low enough with an inverted v. Boxer engines lower the heads and cylinder bores significantly.

I was thinking that too. Looks like the only flat 8 engines ever made were all air cooled. Even then, they've only been used in racing and airplanes.

[erratic50]

Flat 8 is a cool concept.

I agree that a clean slate would be easier

i also agree it would be challenging to get it “low enough”

but look at the average FWD car. Now look at how low that design could carry an inverted V. Now sort the rest from there.......

I think it would be COOL.

[FuturaGuy]

Check out the inverted V-12 on the Messerschmidt 109 from World War II or an inverted Ranger aircraft engine. Both had to have oil scavenge pumps to return the oil from the valve train back to the sump.

Equally important as lowering the center of gravity of a vehicle is raising the instantaneous roll center, which is determined by the suspension pivot points. There are practical reasons that limit the height of the instantaneous roll center (suspension geometry, change of camber angle, etc.) but if it were possible to have the center of gravity beneath the instantaneous roll center, a car would lean INTO a curve instead of outward as cars do now.

[erratic50]

Interesting info about inverted V aircraft

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/thread...-engine.29473/

[richpet]

Fun to think about anyway. Concept is cool. Making it reality an involved deal.

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[WilliamCapri]

Here is center of gravity about as low as you can get with a conventional V design. These things don't come up to my hip joint. 3 generations of GT40.

[Broncojunkie]

Just think how easy the oil filter change would be... not to mention fixing that pesky oil pan gasket!

[erratic50]

Somehow the damn oil pan still has to be on the bottom ..... lols

[Broncojunkie]

Somehow the damn oil pan still has to be on the bottom ..... lols