Antifreeze in cylinder number 1

[erratic50]

I’m trying to help a friend with his foxbody from afar

He took a great running stock 91 LX notchback with barely over 100K miles on it apart to freshen the engine up, reseal everything, and do some upgrades.

well - it has went WAY less than stellar to put it mildly. The engine has been completely apart and back in the car and apart again and back in and part yet again and back in ..... and apart still again

The block was tanked and magnifluxed and everything checked out good. all the threads were chased with a properly sized tap, and cleaned of any possible debris. All of the passages were blown out too. It received a hone and a second cleaning and blow out followed by new cam bearings and freeze plugs. Etc

the rotating assembly received new stock rings and bearings and everything was put back where it had been. All good there

The crank simply received a cleaning and polish - it’s good too

The engine received an E303 cam. Why the hell an E cam ..... Lordy don’t get me started ..... but that was what he picked. His car so he can lose all the area under the curve he wants to. And if he wants to get left sitting by my 86 as-is that’s his business too!

Anyway .... bottom end went together with new ARP fasteners and Felpro gaskets

Ford Racing roller lifters were sourced. A set of “Freshly Rebuilt” GT40 heads and a Cobra intake were acquired.

Yep — you know where this one was going when you started reading

Assembled the damn thing and fired it up and it ran like dog ****. Just absolutely wouldn’t get out of its own way and smoked too.

Hours of diagnostics and wiring testing, etc, later he knew cyl 1-3 and also 6 were WAY down on exhaust manifold temps. They were dead holes.

Tore it back apart and the culprit was determined to be bad exhaust valves on 4 of 8 cylinders. Rebuilt with what, bad parts?!

Back together it goes. Fires it up. It’s running pretty decent overall but after just a few short drives it is clear it is using oil like a freshly stuck pig bleeds. what the f. Never did before it was tore down initially.

Before tearing into it, might as well see what else is going on. Compression is good on all 8 holes but #1 has traces of antifreeze on the plug. Fire it and sure enough it’s down several degrees on exhaust temps. Antifreeze is MIA from the overflow and radiator

Tore it out and all the way back out. Found absolutely nothing that would explain the oil consumption. Nothing that would explain the missing coolant either.

head gaskets and intake gaskets looked as expected before tear down - no tell tale that either had failed to seal. No evidence of oil in the antifreeze or antifreeze in the oil.

I did some reading and found references to the Chinese Ford Racing intakes having problems with sucking oil in the PCV due to a faulty oil shield. It is the Chinese version. PCV valve confirmed it. Upper seems good. The lower seems to suck for multiple reasons like the oil problems, clearance by the distributor, etc. but now we’re getting somewhere

Took the heads and block in to get them rechecked - specifically looking for cracks. We were just sure that had to be something amiss here. It wasn’t

So nothing to reasonably explain the coolant traces getting into #1

I did some reading last night and found mention of some faulty casting on some of the cobras allowing coolant between the crossover and #1. Even had pictures of the faulty area. Be damned if I can find it now.

Where I’m at is make sure the heads decks and block are straight and true because it’s apart and that’s what you do

Figure out a way to pressure test the coolant passage while putting vacuum on the #1 port without putting that intake back on the motor. Confirm it’s junk or if it’s not measure the lower and make sure it’s square and straight..... strongly consider ****-canning it anyway

Head to the scrap yard after a 96-97 Explorer or Mountaineer lower to clean and polish and prep for the motor and end this insanity

Any thoughts by anyone here that might help this cause. This damn car has been repeatedly pulled and torn apart and taking up space in his garage since December now. No idea how many hundreds of hours are in the crapper on this damn thing

[cb84capri]

What heads are they? What head gasket is he using? Did he put thread sealant or anything else on all of the head bolts, and torque them in the proper sequence? What intake manifold gasket set is he using? Is he using studs to line up the lower intake when he sets it on? Was the intake torqued, and re-torqued again in proper sequence after a heat cycle? How many miles has he put on it? Also check around the head bolt threads in the block deck when he tears it down for cracks, they may have cracked since the machine shop.

Cale

[erratic50]

Heads are GT40 heads sourced from an Explorer. Valve springs have been upgraded.

Gasket set is a complete Felpro gasket set for a 5.0 plus an intake gasket set for a 96 Explorer 5.0.

I will find out if any thread sealant was used. I believe yes. Typically sealant used for things like head bolts. https://www.permatex.com/products/th...hread-sealant/

Torque sequence was followed.

Not sure on re-torquing

It didn't get hardly any put on it before it got torn down again. It wasn't right.

My thoughts are also in he same place on the head bolt threads in the deck -- I agree. Intake bolts too as far as that goes.

I do smell a rat with this intake though. Too many people have had too many problems with them. After all of this I doubt I'd put that lower back on my car. If for no other reason because its a bitch to get the dizzy stabbed in a way that you can time it because the lower intake casting is in the way so damn much if you don't relocate the TFI module. The pics of the cracked one I found set off alarms on what he's seeing though.


Yea -- this from the guy that cleaned up things on a $200 new Typhoon and slapped it on. Knock on wood its been just fine though.

[erratic50]

Confirmed what I thought...... standard FelPro gasket set. Foxybody 87-93 and a 96 Explorer intake set, iron GT40 heads - they were milled but intake fitment was verified, Thread sealer on the outside head bolts. EFI 5.0 torque pattern was followed on the lower.

It was NOT retorqued after heat cycle as that requires removal of the upper. Haven't seen an iron head motor require an intake retorque to stay sealed before though.

Following my hunch he just inspected the lower -- the casting looks TERRIBLE in back of the thermostat housing. I'm waiting for pictures.

Testing proved its at fault. He fashioned some boards to mimic the head surface and sandwiched a plate with RTV and lagged the intake down on each side. He put a little coolant in and closed it up with a thermostat housing neck then adapted the neck down to an air fitting and stood it up. With #1 closed off and a vacuum applied to the inlet port and the thermostat housing pressurized it to 15 PSI it more-so drips than gushes coolant into the runner.

It seems that its case closed. Recheck everything since its apart then go back together yet again. Source a 96-97 Ford Explorer or Mercury Mountaineer lower and call it a win.

[cb84capri]

Sorry this is short now because this site just deleted my entire post... Use thread sealant on ALL of the head bolt threads - that way the torque is consistent. When I got my iron headed 347 fired up for the first time, it was chugging coolant because I used arp moly on the blind hole bolts and loctite thread sealant on the ones going into coolant passages. I was ready to take the heads off when I thought just for grins to pull another 10ft/lbs onto the thread sealant bolts. That sealed it up and has been fine for over 3 years now. I chalk it up as being different coefficients of friction between the two products.

I know it's a pain to torque the lower intake, but you would be surprised at how much those bolts spin before hitting torque when the engine is warmed up.

Who makes this intake he has?

Cale

[bwguardian]

It appears you've found the culprit for the coolant issue. However, you stated earlier about the motor smoking and using oil. How was the motor...more importantly, the rings...broke in? Not sure why he went through all that with what was on the clock as it was probably fine. Also, that E303 cam is really better off with a carburetor setup, and not so much with a fuel injected motor...

[4eyedblind]

Similar issues...just put used TW heads on my junkyard shortblock, Exploder intake, ported. Coolant getting into the cylinders a little oil residue in coolant in rad. Car only pulls 15" of vacuum with a stock cam. Car heats up steadily until it will overheat. Stock new rad with small ele fan. Car will smoke lightly as it warms up...oil smoke.

Used permatex sealant on the lower holes and ARP moly on top. Head stud setup so, random torque can't be an issue as moly was used on all the moving surfaces. I'm going to check the plugs, retorque all the head nuts and check the lower mani bolts.

I was really careful putting this together so, ti's pretty frustrating. I did use MLS gaskets for the heads and I have been told they can be fussy and need really good surface prep and dimensions.

[cb84capri]

Similar issues...just put used TW heads on my junkyard shortblock, Exploder intake, ported. Coolant getting into the cylinders a little oil residue in coolant in rad. Car only pulls 15" of vacuum with a stock cam. Car heats up steadily until it will overheat. Stock new rad with small ele fan. Car will smoke lightly as it warms up...oil smoke.

Used permatex sealant on the lower holes and ARP moly on top. Head stud setup so, random torque can't be an issue as moly was used on all the moving surfaces. I'm going to check the plugs, retorque all the head nuts and check the lower mani bolts.

I was really careful putting this together so, ti's pretty frustrating. I did use MLS gaskets for the heads and I have been told they can be fussy and need really good surface prep and dimensions.

Very good point there about bolts vs studs, and it was something that clearly went over my head when I put my 347 together. I am also using Fel-pro mls head gaskets on mine, but the heads and block were both decked with them in mind. I guess guys like to spray the mls gaskets with copper if they are worried about them sealing, I didn't do this with mine though. There are a lot of garbage intake manifold gaskets on the market, and I have used them and had issues. You likely want to use a set of Fel-pro 1250 s3 or 1262 s3 intake gaskets depending on how big your ports are. Only use the s3 because they have steel laminate in them, all the others fall apart in short order. The explorer set is what I have heard is the set to use with stock head port sizes, just I have not ever used them personally like I have with the regular printoseal vs printoseal s3.

Cale

[erratic50]

The motor smoked like a bitch because of the poor shield on the Chinese Cobra intake

Rings and everything were good. Stupid problems to have

[4eyedblind]

Head nuts all passed torque test. Mani bolts had all backed out. Engine passes cranking vac test, Pulling 7+ inches against a closed throttle. That suggests no manifold vacuum leaks. Passes a blip test in that it pulls several more inches momentarily when you suddenly close the throttle from 2000 rpm or so. That says rings are good. Still doesn't want to idle and, as it warms, starts blowing bubbles into the coolant reservoir. ****, I guess that means I'm pulling the engine down again. Awesome.

[erratic50]

I'd say you have a leaker....... yep, down again.

[4eyedblind]

Used MLS gaskets I've never used before....guess that wasn't a good idea. Shoulda just stuck with 8548 or 93331s.

[cb84capri]

Head nuts all passed torque test. Mani bolts had all backed out. Engine passes cranking vac test, Pulling 7+ inches against a closed throttle. That suggests no manifold vacuum leaks. Passes a blip test in that it pulls several more inches momentarily when you suddenly close the throttle from 2000 rpm or so. That says rings are good. Still doesn't want to idle and, as it warms, starts blowing bubbles into the coolant reservoir. ****, I guess that means I'm pulling the engine down again. Awesome.

How did you burp the air out of the cooling system when you refilled it? I would suggest a compression test at the minimum at this stage. Also if you can smoke the intake and do a cylinder leakdown test I think it will help you pinpoint the problem areas a little easier.

Cale

[4eyedblind]

Used a hole in the bucket method, in that there is a hole drilled at the top of the thermostat flange. Car heats up relatively fast and continues straight to overheat level, despite ele fan being on and a new stock rad in. Car passes compression test on all 8, no issues, making about 190 psi cold (there are aftermarket pistons in. It does leak air past the rings fairly significantly when shop air is supplied to cylinders at TDC.

I could do my usual smoke check, which is get a cheap ceegar and blow it in a vacuum port, with the throttle body taped off.

[emerygt350]

Not to bring up the same old thing but water pumps matter. Is your water pump spinning in the right direction? Is the thermostat good? i have had so many bad ones recently that I cook every last one before i install it.

[4eyedblind]

The WP was working before I swapped the heads. The thermo is new but worth a check....it's still not running right. It's rough and won't idle.

[emerygt350]

It is still fuel injected? Could be a sensor if it is. ECT or something like that. Manifold temp etc.

[4eyedblind]

It is EFI. Everything worked before I swapped the heads. It is 30 year old junk but it did work. ECT would make the car run super rich, which it isn't, as would MAP. ACT would have minimal effect. It's responding the throttle so, TPS isn't out, O2s would leave it in open loop but they are new anyway.

[4eyedblind]

Figured out why it's overheating. Ran it to half way on the temp gauge with the rad cap off. There's no water moving through the rad so, the thermo is not opening. I knew I should have tested it. This was a recognized brand name from a proper parts store though. Grr. Pain in the ass little job to get that thing to seal, always.

[emerygt350]

Yeah, I just started using the cheap AutoZone ones after 3 bad motorcrafts. Put some tacky sealant on the gasket to hold it and the thermostat in place as you put the housing on.

[cb84capri]

I have had good luck with the Mr Gasket high flow 160 degree t-stats, because mine's a summer car with a carb boiling problem. After a few years they do tend to open a little bit later, I am on my second one. Had a regular 160 stant w/a 1/8" hole I drilled in it for a couple days before that, didn't seem to cool it down enough and the temp would creep. I checked it on the stove in water with a candy thermometer before installing it, because before that I had a MotoRad 160 that stuck shut on me.

I always jack the nose of my car way up in the air off the k member and run it with the rad cap off and system as full as I can get it when refilling coolant. Run it past the thermostat opening temp and add coolant until it won't take any more, squeeze the upper rad hose before finishing and screwing down the cap. The upper rad hose on these loves to hold air.

Cale

[Jerry peachuer]

When burping coolant you can run your heater as well as crack your hose clamp on your heater hose to intake slightly loose to let it weep coolant not too loose but enough to let it build pressure and leak a bit to let air escape .sometimes you can stick small pickle screwdriver because the fitting has a nipple and holds a seal really good just want it to not pop off when it's half warm or full pressure just be careful

Also dumb question but you may have your head gasket on wrong on
Passenger side
It may be "flipped" covering your coolant passages or at least some of the FEL pros are like this

You're able to see if it's flipped by a tab that Sticks out which is part of the gasket so you don't need to remove anything just a visual check

[Jerry peachuer]

Small pick or small pickle your choice lmao sorry

[4eyedblind]

You are right to raise the HG stuff; it's a common f-up. I made sure it had the front down and one side and up on the other and...both facing..front

I was a little confused about the thermo today bc I tested it and it opened but, I put a thermometer in the water and that 192 ain't opening to well over 220 so, the engine's already boiling over when that thing finally opens.