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Thread: Engine swaps

  1. #26
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    B303 cam with 1.7:1 will yield 0.510 lift and a car that won’t run for crap with speed density

    That’s 0.03825 more lift than a stock cam with 1.7’s.

    The DS9 is speed Density according to several info sources I’ve looked at. For instance: https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-for...engine.862268/

    So unless there’s a DS9 that is MAF, it’s really not going to work with a B cam and 1.7’s or a B cam with 1.6’s. It will run .... like crap.

    There are ways to tune it and guys that know how but it’s a very poor starting point if you are set on a B303 cam.

    Good luck!

  2. #27

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    I am back with an update on the H.O. it is far worse off then expected spun bearings, and deep score in #3, possibly have to go .030 over to salvage it. But the motor will more then likely go back to a factory H.O. setup

  3. #28

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    I don't know if anyone is still watching this thread, but the first Engine was trash had to find another. Pulled a 88 mark 7 and have it at the machine shop. But I have more questions. My engine builder was talking about better heads, High compression pistons and better rockers. If the cam is not touched and is left as the H.O cam with 1.6 roller rockers and a set of AFR heads (p# AFR-1472) How would that affect the SD? I have found a tuner called a TWEECER that is supposed to allow tuning for the older cars. Has anyone used a TWECCER are have any info on them?
    Last edited by EverydayBirdStuff; 10-31-2020 at 07:31 AM.

  4. #29
    FEP Member 86MustangGtRob's Avatar
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    I have the moates quarter horse software on my Mustang. If you look at at a lot of forums from eec tuning. A lot of the guys on their, use Tweecer and have had good luck with it.

  5. #30

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    Pretty sure the tweecer works good if your ecm is supported by them.
    79 Zephyr, 4.6L 4v/4r70w swap, with team z front and rear suspension, 8.8 and upgraded brakes and coil overs. Running Holley Terminator X Max.

  6. #31

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    But if I use better cylinder heads, and 1.6 roller rockers. While leaving the cam, injectors and intake alone. Would that affect the vacuum for the map sensor?

  7. #32

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    Better cylinder heads and the roller rockers are not going to alter the cam timing events, so no, the vacuum isn't going to change. Erratic50 is giving you good advice with respect to using the HO cam and 1.7 roller rockers with the stock speed density setup on your Bird.

    I did the same with mine quite a while ago, and used a stock HO cam and short block, Edelbrock aluminum heads, 1.7 rockers, and an Explorer 5.0 intake. Ecm was stock 88 Mustang GT. My Bird at the time was T5 swapped. Driveability was stock, performance gains were huge. Daily drove it in that configuration for 2 years, then Windsor swapped it.

  8. #33
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    A good set of heads like AFR or TFS along with a stock HO cam and 1.7:1 rockers has shown in multiple articles to be able to kick out 400HP and 400ftlbs at the crank provided the intake tract and exhaust tract are free flowing and ignition base timing is optimized.

    If it were mine, I'd go MAF even if I kept the stock HO cam. Its just such a mild mannered and powerful setup. Its cheaper to get an X3Z ECU than it is to buy tuning software and hardware for a SD ECU. Either option works of course.

    If you go MAF get a 93 Cobra spec 70MM MAF. A standard MAF that electronically reports accurate data. NOT one that's been "recalibrated" .... AKA BROKEN.

    You will need bigger injectors. 21lb is about the max an untuned SD ECU will put up with and will not get you to the 400HP at the crank number.

    What I would do is 4-6 hole EV6 24lb injectors because they correct an idle stumble EC1's are notorious for. I'd grab FMS EV1-EV6 adapters, a Explorer 65MM throttle body converted to Fox per Tom Moss' instructions, a 65MM EGR spacer, and a very good flowing intake.

    Intake wise places like Big Dogs do offer stock intake porting but get out your wallet!

    Cheapest option is Typhoon. You can get to the potential of the combo with TFS or Edelbrock, or ported GT40 too.

    You need at least 230 CFM/port capacity to support the capability of the heads and get the power out.

    I've helped a few guys design setups that are simple and cheap to build and they are an absolute blast to drive, still get great fuel economy, and run like Ford made them that way.

    What more could you ask for?

    I've beaten a local 13 GT500 0-90 multiple times with my old pile of crap and I'm still running "junk" lightly massaged E6 heads.

  9. #34

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    So a good set of heads AFR or TFS, 1.7 rockers, 24lb injectors, and a better intake. and I don't have to mod or tune the SD computer, as long as the vacuum to the map stays the same, its good? A GT40 upper and lower with a 70mm TB would that be good?
    Last edited by EverydayBirdStuff; 11-06-2020 at 10:30 PM.

  10. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by EverydayBirdStuff View Post
    So a good set of heads AFR or TFS, 1.7 rockers, 24lb injectors, and a better intake. and I don't have to mod or tune the SD computer, as long as the vacuum to the map stays the same, its good? A GT40 upper and lower with a 70mm TB would that be good?
    I used stock HO 19lb/hr injectors on mine until the 351 swap, when it also got mass air swapped. Yes, having a strong vacuum signal to the map is important, and yes the Explorer/cobra/gt40 intake and 70mm throttle body is a good intake choice for a mild 302 build. Same for the heads and rockers.

    Both speed density and mass air (except for cobra) are using an assumed 19lb/hr injector flow rating as the basis for it's fueling strategy. So, if you decide to change to higher flowing injectors, the computer does not know it and will continue to open and close the injectors as if the stock 19 lb/hr injectors are in place... which will likely create an over-fueling condition, especially at idle and cruise..where not alot of airflow or fuel demand is occurring, because you've increased the fuel flow rate at the injector.

    The additional airflow from improved intake and heads isn't really utilized at idle or cruise because even the stock junk could easily satisfy those airflow requirements so you can't assume that would help offset the extra fuel. It won't.

  11. #36

  12. #37

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    Nice looking Bird! Don't see very many in white anymore.

  13. #38

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    I had it repainted in the original single stage white, it had a dual red pin stirp, had to pull the side trim cause the passenger door trim had fallen off but i liked the look of it without. But the white with red interior with center shift console its a pretty cool old sport coupe.

  14. #39
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Nice looking ride!

    You need a 24lb injector to support 400HP at the crank. You can tune a Speed Density ECU with a Quarterhorse board and Binary Editor. Its a bit of a lost art to most. If you screw with the LSA on the cam you'll play hell getting it to run right afterwards but it can be done. Easy path is an aftermarked ECU with a wideband as most are self-learning.

  15. #40

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    I am changing it up with the build, The cam is staying the same. The heads are going to a set of 175cc with 62cc combustion chamber. GT40 tubular upper and lower with a 70mm throttle body and matched egr spacer, with the stock injectors.

  16. #41
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    My 5 speed RAV4 and 6 speed 12 ton 7.8 liter Isuzu truck are speed density.

    Each has an idle kicker for the center diff lock (RAV4) and the Neutral Gate Switch (Isuzu), which kicks the idle up.



    I haven't loaded the files to YouTube yet, but I have recorded the two processes that demonstrate the method used to stop MAP signal loss when idling and punching a higher load (like when awd or a/c or a drop into first or second under load) which normally stops an early 1986-1988 Mustang or 1986 -1993 LSC Speed Density dead.







    Ford built in a two earth Live Data stream Activated PID's Pre-OBDII port into all Speed Density Sequential Lincolns from 1990 to 1993.

    Same as the Bank Fire 1991-1993 Speed Density Trucks F150/250/350 and Vans E150/250/350. Those allowed use of the VSS or the VR speedo to kick idle, but the code is stubbed. The facility exists to take care of the signal loss.





    Ford had all this worked out in 1985, but dropped CFi, and then went Speed Density Port EFi, and had any number of solutions to spike the idle if it needed to with big cams. Instead, it had emissions issues to deal with, so it went MAF.

    You don't have to go MAF, you just have to address the safe idle speed and low speed MAP signal. The way to do that is add idle speed when changing gears, but you have to keep the safety features Ford had, and avoid vehicle movement or Audi 5000 style auto acceleration. Toyota and Isuzu have been doing that for years.

  17. #42

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    Has anyone used the Holley Terminator X? I have been looking into them and they look very simple to install and for the price it not that bad. The self learning and tuning looks to be very nice, and if it a good system I will more then likely buy one.

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