Holley 5200 Tuning

[Bilbo]

Hello everyone. I've been searching the web extensively the last few weeks trying to get a carb worked out on a 1983 Ranger with a 2.3. The throttle shaft on the original Carter YFA has a lot of play in it and the MCU system wasn’t working anyway, so I put on a 5200 from a 1974 Pinto. It drives ok for the most part but I’m having a few concerning issues.

I went through the lean beat idle procedure several times and where it says the engine should run slow like a tractor at first mine is running at about 1100 rpm. I can get the idle to stabilize around the 850 specified on the sticker by playing around, but the AFR is 12.5. The idle mixture screw is 1.25 turns ouh. I keep thinking there has to be a vacuum leak somewhere but can’t find any. I get a short stumble if I shoot the throttle shafts directly with carb cleaner. Is it possible this is the entire issue? I can’t feel any play in the shafts when I pull on them.

There is also a deep lean spot just barely off idle. At very light cruise the truck stumbles and lurches and AFR goes to 19 at times. Would this be the transition holes? I don’t know how to adjust that without screwing up idle. How can I get rid of this lean spot?

The jets in the carb are are as follows:

Primary main 132
Secondary main 140
Primary air corrector 170
Secondary air corrector 185
Primary idle jet 70
Secondary idle jet 50
Primary e tube 05
Secondary e tube 16

This forum seemed to have a lot of 5200 info on it so I figured it might be worth a shot asking here. Thank you to anyone who can offer any assistance or guidance.

Sorry about the goofy text sizes. I’m trying to post this with a cell phone and apparently I’ve met my match.

[gr79]

I use a vac gauge to see what idle readings are, warm engine.
Aim for steady 18-20" and rpm at idle, warm.
Specs are ballpark figures. Adjust mix to what engine and you want.
Make sure float level, gaskets are spec, bowl and internal passages clean of debris.
Little dab of lube on throttle ball connection to carb if present.

Deep stumble could mean change to larger main jets or rerouting vac lines.
Temp swap the larger secondary 140 jet with the and see what happens.
Truck is heavier work for carb than the Pinto was. Plus the transmission/gear variables.
Vac connections can play havoc when tuning. May have to experiment with them.
Accel pump shot is adjustable.
Engine should stall with primary idle mix screwed in all the way or nearly so.
If not:
Inspect power valve diaphragm inside bowl with magnifying glass.
Can wear, have a tear or pinhole= an internal fuel leak.
Could try a later version of the 5200.

[Bilbo]

I did have it looking good on the vacuum gauge before I learned about the lean best idle thing. With all of the monkeying around I'm guessing it's off again.

I will give the jet switch a try, great idea. I'm not sure what the spec is for float level. I only have a generic 5200 manual that says to refer to application specs for that. With the air horn upside down, the float looks to be level with it, if that means anything.

The only vacuum connections I have are the distributor advance on the manifold between 3&4, and the PCV system that is right under the carb on the adapter. I used a Trans-Dapt adapter that has a barb for the PCV. It clicks like a sewing machine at idle and I was thinking last night that maybe that's causing some issues when the throttle just opens and vacuum drops off a little bit. I'm going to try it with that unplugged as well.

I read online about checking the power valve by covering a passage with your finger while it's pressed down, and it should stay down. It did for a minute or so. I figured it was good.

I will get back after I have a chance to try all of this out, thanks for the help!

[Bilbo]

I re-tuned idle with the vacuum gauge and it seems better. With the pcv unplugged it’s a solid 19”. With pcv hooked up it’s around 18” and jumping around a bit. AFR is still around 12.5:1.

Swapped the mains around and noticed 14:1 AFR at cruise very consistently. When I’d get on it would drop as low as 10.5 sometimes but drove fine. I would think the cruise should be leaner than 14; will have to see how mileage is. The carb had an Autoline tag on it and I’m assuming they rebuilt it. Is it possible jets went back into incorrect locations? How would I know what original was?

There’s still a lean spot just as the throttle cracks. It’s very noticeable when driving say through town at 25 mph/1200 rpm in top gear. Also when coasting to slow down, if it’s not completely off the gas. I’m still thinking it has to be the transition holes as that would be the circuit in charge at that just-cracked throttle position, no? Or could this be air correctors/emulsion tubes?

[gr79]

Have no afr to compare mine with yet.

Could be a transfer hole deal.
If idle is too high, carb is not using the idle mix correctly.
Plate too far open past idle circuit and into the next circuit.
5200 is progressive, so only the primary side is working at low speed.

This is an area of tune where vac lines can change rpm that so the idle rpm screw can be backed down.
Had that deal with one of my 5200. Needed to experiment to eliminate a huge hole when accell to cruise.
Advancing timing a bit can bring up the idle. Then turn it down with the curb idle screw on the linkage.
The curb idle screw allows the throttle plates to close more, short of sticky plates.

1200 rpm is pretty low for a four cyl to make any torque. They like more rpm to cruise at, say 1800-2000.
Mileage does not change with more revs. Should get 18-25, average 20 is normal.

Engine should stall with pvc hose port open. That s a giant vac leak sucking in lots of air.
Even a little vac leak will cause the engine to run lean rough.
If engine runs with a big vac leak, is getting too much fuel from somewhere.

19" or so is good start.
Lean best adjustment is ok, but not always is the best for good running.
Too lean can cause a bog. Try turning mix screw out more until vac drops. "Rich best idle".

There are several adjustment holes in the accel pump. Normal is hole 2.
Could try moving to 3rd hole from end if its at #2. Quicker squirt. Is the setting for turbo 2.3 engines.

Jettings vary widely.
I had a special ordered reman Holley from Holley themselves. Car ran like a dog.
Wrong jets. Too small. Had to rejet with correct ones from the old carb.
Turbo carbs are jetted rich 263 and 275 (.054 and.055) or 259/283 (.053/.056).

Other stock 79 2.3 5200 jet combos, per Ford perf spec book are:
163/219, 147/219, 171/203 (.044/.047), 167/199 (.044/.047), 175/207 (.045/.047). 219 is .048.
These are 1979 2.3 in cars, a/c, non-ac, manual or automatic. Have no data on anything else.
Mustang/Capri, Fairmont/Zepher n/a 2.3. GM 5210 and Chrysler 5220, 6500, series are different.

134 and 140 jets are about .040 and .041

A holley jet chart says Holley 4360 4v carb main jets interchange with 5200/5210.
Look in the old carb if possible and check the jet number(s)
Dunno about fine tuning bleeds, etc. I run what was in there.
There are online articles that explain more than i can.

[Bilbo]

I should have explained that better. I unplugged the pcv valve and plugged the hole on the intake. If I just unplug the pcv, the engine quickly dies. The old carb was a carter YFA, would the jet size be comparable somehow, since that’s a different brand and single barrel?

I think mine is definitely happier closer to that rich best idle point. I know there’s not much torque at low rpms, but there’s not much required at a slow cruise. If I try to maintain speed at 1200rpm in 4th (or any gear, just off throttle opening) it leans out quickly and lurches. If I add throttle and accelerate it takes right off. Or if it’s in neutral and I barely touch the gas or pull on the throttle by Hand the same thing happens. Pcv working or isolated had no effect on this.

[Walking-Tall]

If there's no blockage to or at the primary idle jet (causing the off-idle / light part throttle leanness), the driving behavior and AFR (but more-so the presence of bucking/surging felt) you're describing would call for a smaller primary idle air bleed. Readjust idle mixture after fully warmed up after a change.

[gr79]

My theory is both carbs have a single primary barrel in common, maybe even same general cfm rating.
The jet sizes should be similar or close enough to work in both as a starting point for correct primary jetting.
Leave the 5200's secondary barrel out of the picture for now.

Recently, moved to a larger carb from the stock 5200. 5200 (turbo version) is 280 cfm, new Holley is 350.
New carb has SAE numbered jets vs 5200 metric number jets.

Needed to match the 350's primary jet to the 5200's. Then go from there as needed.
The two carbs have different jet threads, thus not interchangable. Metric and SAE.
Found the drill size of the 5200 primary jet (metric series) from a Holley chart.
Converted that to a 350 carb's jet series (SAE series) number using another chart.
The 5200's 263 (.054) is a #55 (.054). Conversion is working perfectly.

Next
The 5200 has an additional barrel as a secondary. Mine has a factory jet one size up from primary, #275.
So did the same thing to the new carb secondary.
#275 is .055. Bought new #56 jet (.055) for the 350 carb. Again so far so good. Was confusing.

Even though the new carb is larger, the jetting seems to be close. Need afr gauge to see what is what.
Smooth, no issues, starts good, smooth cruise and tip in normal, vg power under boost.
Fuel mileage is better, since using equal size .054 primary jet from a smaller carb in a bigger carb no doubt leaned the mix a bit.

In 1974, a jet metered non ethanol fuel. Now, E-15 or whatever needs a larger jet due to the alcohol blend.
My car is a 79 and is when gasohol first appeared at the pump. Assuming Ford knew and jetted carbs bigger for it ahead of time.
1970's and prior was straight no alky fuel.

So if wishing to match primary jet from the Carter YFA to a 5200 jet, need to find out what drill size the YFA jet is.
Then use a jet with the same drill size in the 5200 as a start. Go one size larger in the secondary.
https://www.carburetor-parts.com/Car...ets_p_160.html

Back in the 70's, had a VW bug.
Removed the stock 1 bbl Solex and installed a 5200 conversion kit from JC Whitney in Chicago.
Same deal as you. Manifold adapter. Ran great. Forgot what if any carb tuning details.
Lucky me Holley HQ was couple miles away and assisted with the process.
Friend still laughs at me putting a Pinto carb on a VW engine.

Know nothing much about internal carb tuning beyond jetting and verifying part numbers. Like bleeds, etc,.
Others on this site are way good at deep tuning carbs. My tuning is prob 1/2 luck.

[gr79]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5aqrguTMoW...0/jets%2Bc.jpg

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ft-5200-2bbl-s

https://www.google.com/search?q=holl...6oBqUQ_AUIDSgA

[Bilbo]

Is the idle air bleed able to be changed? I think it’s pressed/stuck in somehow.

Thanks for those links, I had seen all but the Holley sheet. There is a problem now after RE-tuning where it will stall or nearly stall when I let off the throttle to coast. It happens in the driveway revving it too. If I blip the throttle at the right time it snaps back, I’d guess the pump shot rescues it. The wife and confirms it’s leaning way out.

Still haven't torn into into the old carter. I have to help my son replace a heater core in his car. One things for sure, I’d much rather work on this old ranger. Everything is packed into this Grand Prix like sardines in a tin. No room for tools even, much less hands to operate the tools.

[gr79]

Tuning carbs and related can be a long process of trial and error.
Probing for little things that add up to bigger changes. What affects what.
That's how i eventually get them to straighten out. Thinking out of the box is allowed.
Learning the adjustments, parts, that are common to all carbs or are carb series specific.

Fuel and seasonal blend changes are a variable.

Every carb i had on the 2.3 needed pedaling for a few minutes when cold to keep engine alive.
Auto chokes never worked as advertised, nor do the engines need choke enriching for very long.
On my 350 carb, adjusting the secondary stop screw got rid of a little but noticeable off idle flat spot.
Never had to do that with the 5200s.

I set my carbs at 1000 rpm. Sometimes they idle lower, sometimes higher. A blip resets that.
Factory spec is 900, but at that speed, has more of a tendency to drop lower when accessories are used.
During early warmup under certain weather conditions, noted engine will stay alive at like at 400 rpm.
Choke is wide open (removed). Touch the pedal and usually stalls.
Funny that the 5200s and the new Holley have this in common. Linkage?

The bleeds have a slot for a flat screwdriver.
Under them is the tube. I use a bent paper clip or a small pick to fish pry them out.
Best done with carb off. In case a part slips from grip and goes down the 'drain'.

Every now and then, took the whole carb off and apart to clean the little holes with spray, air, and a clean rag.
Holley manual pretty much describes this like a back flush.
Carb shops would boil them out or use ultrasonic.
Have one carb that had that white stuff inside from sitting.
If i remember correctly, taking the idle mix screw out and spraying cleaner in it shoots it out the bleed backwards and up.
Or was that the idle jets?
Either can be done in car, engine off, with bleed in place.

Some carbs have 2 idle mix screws, primary, secondary. Have to play with both but are set close to the same turns out.

[Bilbo]

I know the main bleeds are threaded. I've had those out and experimented with them. I think the idle air bleed is pressed in.

I drove it yesterday without issues, other than the lean spot already mentioned. Then this morning, on the same trip, It would stall at every stop sign for about 6 miles (half a dozen stops). Plenty of warmup time, engine was at operating temp, it would just go from cruise to 0RPM, like it wouldn't even try to idle. Then, out of nowhere it idled perfect. I swear this thing is possessed.

I'm going to take the carb off and go through and clean it. There's got to be some kind of intermittent obstruction or build up coming loose a bit at a time.

[Walking-Tall]

As with Holley and other carburetors, with pressed in air bleeds (and idle feed restrictions, the equivalent to your idle jets)... nothing stopping anybody from extracting those, drilling and tapping threads and installing brass set screws in their place to then be drilled with whatever size orifice size that is needed to bring about the better-than-efi perfection in function, that with a little work, carburetors are more than capable of delivering.

Possession, probably not, although I know the sentiment/suspicions well, lol... intermittent monkey business sounds like, from my previous post, "... blockage to or at the primary idle jet (causing the off-idle / light part throttle leanness)"...

[gr79]

Have similar happen suddenly on way home from a cruise event.
Idle and full throttle fine, no mid range.
Engine quit until and unless pedal was floored or let off of.

Theory of dirt in fuel bowl was causing the problem was confirmed later:
One tiny piece of black debris was getting sucked into the main jet, blocking the circuit.
Then when off the gas, the suction stopped and debris floated away to settle in the bowl.
Ran on the idle circuit.
Then cycle repeated upon accel. Took a few seconds for the debris to find the jet again.
Driving at idle on a road was not getting it. Found out flooring the pedal worked too.
The primary jet seemed to get the junk first every time.

Decided when car acted up to pull over into a parking lot, shut down, and pull the top of carb.
Caught the culprit in the act.
The black thing was sticking out of the primary jet hole.
Removed it and saved it for later analysis.
Later at home, a magnifying glass confirmed what the debris composition was that was floating about.
Bowl-air horn gasket.
Cleaned carb, never happened again.
I guess that is one reason why new gaskets are suggested.
Full throttle worked because that the secondary was not blocked.
Would pick up speed but slower than normal. Secondary jet took over the blocked primary jet's function.
Only one piece was found big enough to do the mischief.
When the single piece of debris was being held by suction of the primary jet, the secondary jet stayed clear.
Another floater like that would have blocked the secondary jet too.

[Bilbo]

The jet is good, it’s got to be in the passages. I’m going to take it off and deep clean this weekend, hopefully.

[Bilbo]

That's a great story gr79. It usually seems to be something stupid simple. I used to have a Taurus that started having misfire problems after I'd done a bunch of work including timing chain, plugs, valve cover gaskets, etc. It would idle fantastic and cruised equally well, but accelerating it would pop and throw codes. It got bad enough that it had the blinking SES light. For the life of me I could not figure out what was going on. I thought maybe it was the Autolite plugs I'd used instead of the Motorcraft ones, and set about replacing them all, which was a bit of a job for the back three. New plugs, same problem, just couldn't figure it out. Finally I was revving it with the cable watching the engine, and when it would rev up, the engine would rock a little bit and pull the intake plenum out of the rubber duct that went to the airbox. I had forgotten to tighten the hose clamp there when I was all done the first time. At idle and cruise it looked and worked fine. Accelerating caused a big air leak.

Thanks again for all the tips thus far, it helps me stay on track and hopefully not miss the forest for the tree. This weekend I'll deep clean this thing and see how it goes. This morning, it idled flawlessly until I arrived at work and it stalled coasting into the parking lot. Lots of evidence pointing to obstruction somewhere.

I also took the main jet out of the Carter last night. It's quite a bit bigger than the Holleys, but the Carter uses a metering rod/needle. I don't have a complete drill set, so I can't measure it yet. I'm not sure how far it retracts under full throttle; I'd imagine all the way.

[gr79]

Sharing info to help form pictures of the task at hand.
Getting (re)acquainted with the carb and refreshing some the past gained knowledge spread over the years.
A 5200 is a popular carb used in many different applications.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...2-3l-carb-help
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives...Carburetor.pdf
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ID-numbers-etc
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ft-5200-2bbl-s

See cleaning and inspection
https://www.carburetor-parts.com/Hol...al_ep_340.html

From 79 Ford Engine shop manual V2 section 29-02-120 procedure SSD-18 model 5200/6500 carbs
"This procedure is to be used if contamination must be removed from the carburetor.
Note where the parts came from".

1- remove carb
2- remove: air horn, hs bleeds, well tubes, main metering jets, idle jet(s), idle mix adj screw, accel pump (cover, diaphragm, spring), power valve, needle and seat, accel pump shooter.

3- Clean bowl and all items removed.

4- Using compressed air, blow out the following main body channels in listed order:

a- primary idle channel from the adj screw opening
b- primary and secondary idle channels from idle jet opening
c- fuel bowl, primary, secondary main metering jet channels\
d- primary and secondary main well channels
e- accel pump channel

[Bilbo]

Gr79, I picked up on something in the ID numbers thread. There's mention of a vent line for the secondary; I don't believe mine has that, but there are two places where I could hook up vacuum hoses. I capped both of them. One is near the air horn on the back of the carb, and would be just to the left out of frame in the photo below. I don't know what that's for. The other is to the left, around the corner from that one and further down. I figured that one was for ported vacuum, however it popped loose while trying to adjust fast idle and didn't leak any air. Is there a photo somewhere with all the little ports and passages pointed out with what their intended use is?

[gr79]

I was going to add a note about the 90 degree carb vac fitting to the secondary side of air horn.
Found on turbo 5200 carbs and others. Turbo engines have additional carb vac connections.
When i used a n/a 5200, added the side port. After other mods to turbo engine spec, worked fine.
Defiantly test connect the 90 tube (if present) with a vac hose to the intake manifold directly.
It is like a tiny vacuum leak, allows engine to idle much smoother and normally, at least mine does.
Engine wants that tiny bit of unmetered air.
See if anything good happens. My engine will not idle well without that.
This vac line from manifold does not have to be connected to anything. However the 90 provides filtered air.

Do try a manifold connection for the dist advance rather than a carb one. Any manifold tap will do.
Found long ago engine runs better when distributor advance is using manifold vac.
Prob due to most of the emissions items are no longer present.
Different tune, runs differently when distributor uses carb connection as from the factory.

The two above connections dramatically affected how my 2.3 idled and ran.
A early 70's era 5200 carb is basically the same, only calibrated for a different emissions package and no E10.
I have a new Chevy Vega 5210 i bet could basically work on a Ford.
Now that one has an air horn assy that is pretty different from the Ford versions. Fuel inlet, etc.

The Carter YF is rated around 200 cfm. A one barrel is on line all the time.
The 5200 primary cfm is smaller. Works like half of a four barrel. 230-280 cfm, depends on venturi size (mm on casting).
Both barrels have to combine to match and exceed a 1 bbl cfm. Each barrel is good for 100-120 or so cfm i guess.

Make sure the 5200's secondary spring is in place, keeping the plate closed until linkage opens it.

Pics and diagrams. Search for 2.3 turbo carb discussion, but similar to n/a.
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...after-15-years!

[gr79]

From another forum.
"Found the vacuum leak, it was the base gasket.
The gasket was .310 thick but the plastic hole spacers were .315 thick. I cut them down and that solved the leak."
https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?t=79046

[Bilbo]

I was able to get off work early today and do some work with the truck. Did the following:

Swapped air correctors, so 140/132 mains and 185/170 air correctors. . Saw cruise AFR go to 15.5, seemed to run and drive fine. Under load drops down to 12-ish. No change with the off idle lean spot and bucking. Put the air correctors back where they were.

Tried connecting the vacuum thing on the back side of the primary. Didn’t notice any changes on vacuum or AFR.

Removed carb and deep cleaned per gr79’s post. Sprayed carb cleaner, then compressed air twice. Noticed what looks like epoxy around the throttle shaft holes in the main bore. I couldn’t see it from above due to the Venturi and booster stuff in the way. Hmmm. Double checked and cleaned all passages and jets, orifices, etc. and reassembled/reinstalled carb. Secondary closing spring was there and verified the secondary throttle was closing. Ran the engine and no changes. Drives as before, same lean spot and bucking.

Switched secondary (50) and main (70) idle jets. That did not work well. Mixture screw was at 1 turn and good idle with 70 jet. 4 turns out and it still wouldn’t run smooth on the 50.

Distributor has been on manifold vacuum since the beginning. My engine likes it much better there too.

I checked my gasket and and it’s making solid contact, no leaks there visually or with carb cleaner check while running.

I didn’t find anything while cleaning. I don’t know what else to check. Everything I read says the transition circuit is controlled by idle jet. I can’t go bigger there or I think I’ll run out of adjustment on the mixture screw. I experimented with blocking the idle air bleed and that would richen things up, the lean off idle was still there. The epoxy-looking repair Has me a little concerned. Now I’m wondering if I have a carb that’s damaged and screwy and I’m just chasing ghosts.

[gr79]

For sure something like epoxy on a carb would also make me wonder if the carb is compromised.

Could try opening up the secondary temp wrapping tape or something around where the linkage meets the secondary stop screw on the base.
I did that to my new carb. Found it affected off idle transition like when going around a street corner. Wanted a bit more fuel.
Actually took the stop screw out and reversed the ends so i could adjust it on the road without carb removal.
Then switched it back once i felt i learned what was going on. Wound up bending the linkage tab a tad. Cant really do that on a 5200.
Plus modded a tiny screwdriver with a 90 bend to adjust the screw. Engine liked a certain spot. Engine did not like the secondary closed all the way.
Actually did set the plates vs transition holes per manual and went from there.
May not be what the books say but proof is in driving. Spark plugs have always looked normal no matter what.

Remove a small vac line or rubber plug on the intake. Or maybe one of the carb base ones. Or maybe two.
Let it suck air in. Does engine speed up or shake/stall? Vac reading?
I did that many times. With the 5200, engine sped up. With the larger carb, it wants to stall.

Have not had to play with timing, but would not rule a minor adjustment out just to see what happens.
Maybe disconnect and plug dis adv or connect to carb. Just to see what happens.
The experimenting.
Could get a second later version 5200 and see what it does. A Ford linkage version of course. Carb tag needed to id them.
Have about 5 here. I grab em at swap meets or the yards. Black float versions only, no early brass.
And the float setting- I turn the air horn assy upside down, lightly push down on the float, then check height per spec.

[Bilbo]

Is there a spec for the throttle plate off transition holes? How is that set up? Also spec for the float, I don’t have one. I just went off the basic flip it upside down and set float level/parallel with air horn surface. I didn’t have to adjust it initially, it came to me that way.

[gr79]

Too much to write here. I use a web search and read what others write.
Then form a opinion on what to try.

After doing this stuff so many times, can get carb off in couple minutes.
Box and or gear wrench on the nuts.

Be careful when retightening screws they can strip. Fingertip tight is good enough.
May try the 3rd hole on the accel pump arm. The hole closest to end is #1.
Rangers are heavier than a Pinto and may need a quicker shot off the line.

1979 spec for float is .41-.51. Prob is ok for other years too. Can split the diff which is about 7/16 or .4375.
I use a General #308 6" stainless steel rule graduated in 32nds and 64ths, decimal eq chart on back.
Set on air horn were gasket goes. Measure at top of pontoons, no slack (needle seated).
Been using this procedure for years. Carbs run fine and fuel mileage is too.

The Holley 5200 pdf briefly touches float settings.
As with the float spec, viewing where the throttle plates are simply verifies if they are way off.

This touches on the secondary plates. No real mention of primary. Race stuff, but any useful info is valid.
Read several times to adjust plate one transfer slot height below the slot. Form a 'square'.
http://www.thelolaregistry.com/DIY/Weber.htm

[Bilbo]

Thanks for the article. I had seen that a while back and was looking for it again but couldn’t find it. I saw a note regarding a different carb, not sure if it was Weber, but it said if the plates are off then there could be a gap between coming off idle and adding air, and reaching the transition. Mine has holes, not slots. How would I adjust the plates? That’s just the idle speed screw is it not? And the little set screw for the secondary.

I haven’t tried the third hole yet as the problem continues indefinitely as long as the throttle is in that position. If it was the pump shot, wouldn’t it bog for a bit until the fuel catches up to the air, not continuously stay lean?

I might try cutting a slot so the transition is closer to the plate at rest. As I see it, I don’t have much to lose at this point and can fill it in with epoxy if I need to.