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  1. #1

    Default Intake manifold suggestions

    Need to pick the brains of the very knowledgeable group here.

    Iíve swapped an Explorer 302 into my 84 LTD LX, and need a suggestion on which intake manifold to use.

    The engine is a stock 140k shortblock (new gaskets), a Comp 349-8 cam (XE264HR-14), and 3 bar GT40 heads with Alexís Parts springs. Going to use a Holley 80457-2 carb.

    Looking between the Weiand Stealth or the Street Warrior. Itís going to be a street car for me to take the family out in and romp around on nice days.

    I have an AOD currently and plan to keep it for now, has a Baumann shift kit setup for 5800rpm shifts. Basically Iím trying to decide if I go bigger on the intake for future upgrades or just stick to the smaller intake that fits more into my cams powerband. What have you guys used on similar setups and what would you recommend?


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  2. #2

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    The intake held in highest regard due to performance results is most often the Edelbrock RPM Airgap

  3. #3
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    IMHO, if its still CFi wired, convert to speed density Port EFi. 95% of the wiring is there.

    5.0's were the first Tuned Port Injection engines.


    The Australians were able to run the 1993 SVT Cobra R 5.0 235 hp rated engine as a 268 hp EB Falcon or EL Falcon GT engine from 1993 to 1998, initially with with GT40 non P heads, then the P's.

    Your 1993 SVT was the deTomaso Pantera Si 305 hp engine with the 248 hp net software downgrade. It was 268 hp net on Aston Martins Tickford dyno without the EECIV T5 gearbox protection strategy.

    In 1987-1989 for the Rest of World and US market, the last of the 351 Cleveland and Clevor 351 Windsor truck engines were made, with Jack Roush having done a special 5 liter engine tune for the Pantera 90 Si.

    The so called GT40 with its bad ass Showa style upper intake was introduced in 1990 via de Tomaso, but wasn't fully Ford USA 300 hour test approved, or US FTP 75 emissions legal. It was Swiss built by an ex Monteverdi tuning company from stock parts supplied from Fords performance suppliers.

    These early 5.0 GT40 engines, 1990-1993, weren't as wonderful as the later 1995 engines with GT40P heads.

    The Explorer is the engine to use.

    Although its block is a pretty bad casting, it was from the factory equipped with bore friendly hyper-eutectic pistons and nice thin lower tension rings and plateau honed bores,
    its 215 engine rating is under little stress in a 4200 pound 1996-2001 Explorer XLT or Mountaineer.

    It had the safety latch unbuttoned with the advent of the small exhaust valve GT40P angle plug heads.

    For intakes therefore, you have three options.

    1. The stock Explorer style intake reworked with the T Moss modifications, good for 295 hp net at 5200 rpm and 320 lb-ft at 4000 rpm, emissions legal. This is the Synergy 5000 Ford XR8 Falcon spec with the better cam.

    See https://www.whichcar.com.au/features...used-car-guide

    The R351 Saleen 371 hp engine used a variation of the stock 5.0 Mustang intake, cut and shut to suit the bigger 5.8 engine to make the EECV computer, 1995 Edelbrock Aluminum headed engine, probably the best overhead valve 351 Windsor ever made.

    See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...C-IV-SCT/page3


    2. The earlier Showa style GT40 bunch of bananas intake, also a very good piece. Despite claims that it flows 425 hp, its wrong, it flat-lines over 305 hp net without modification. Showa is just a motorcycle company who did about 500 secondary lost wax castings for Ford Australia. The proper USA made original is hard to get, but exceptionally good to work with.



    3. The Trickflow style T3 type as used in the 5.6 liter 250 Pursuit and TE50 T3 335 HP 342 cubic inch factory stroker.

    a ďvery special engine in one hell of a carĒ.



    The stock iron GT40P head tie the Explorer cylinder block together better, and the aluminum replacement heads like the X303 or whatever were used in about 1500 Australian Falcons, but Ford Australia found it was easier to have Yella Terra CNC port the GT40P's and use them to make 335 hp at 5250 rpm and 369 lb-ft at 4000rpm with the last 5.6 liter 3.4" stroker cast iron crank and 5.40" rod, 1.169" compression height Hyper-eutectic cast alloy piston engines.


    The best advice here is from erratic50, ZephyrEFI and EtylCat. NAVYCAT has gotten some excellent experience

    I speak Cleveland 2V and 4V 4bbl intake 351C, my native tongue.


    Its taken years for Ford USA and Australia to create a factory 335 hp S code 390 replacement engine for Mustangs. That engine was the Explorer 5.6 stroker iron GT40P headed engine.

    IMHO, The 295 hp Explorer based Synergy 5000 was a sweeter and wonderfully elastic and balanced engine, the good zone is something between the 5.0 and 5.6 with something between 295 and 335 hp, and something between 320 and 370 lb-ft of torque.


    One other option, a fourth,


    4. is the 500 hp capable Holden HSV 5.0 Twin throttle body intake manifold with EDIS. Tom Walkinshaw made this for Rovers 3500 stroker Buick based 5.6 liter engine, and General Motors Australian Holden wing worked with an HSV engineer and Peter G. Brock (AUS) to bring it into being.

    There are truly excellent USA Made twin throttle body Box intakes,

    but IMHO, the Holden 5.0 HSV is way better on anything with a rev range like the 5.0 Explorer can generate. It made 488 hp in the last Group A Holden's and is an eruptive performer with a strong mid range.




    Note ZephyrEFI, Mr Brads posts, whom I bequeath the tile Brad-onator! with a Shreeeeak!


    A great EFI 5.0 Ford is always exceptional,

    When you sift through the rest, you'll nail it!


    Of Fords factory GT40P headed 295 hp, 321 lb-ft Ford by Tickford EFI engine in Pages 45 to 47 in September 2001, Wheels Magazine said it best:-.




    https://www.whichcar.com.au/features...ommodore-vx-ss

    And the engine! What about the engine? Love it. This has got to be the dear old Windsor V8's finest hour....The new XR8, then, is the winner.It's a much more rewardingly responsive drive than the SS, and now deliviers simarly thrilling performance. Ford has ended the reign of the Gen III-engined SS as the king of affordable Australian V8- performance cars. Deny it if you like. But that's your problem, not mine.
    And the next year, they added a 342 5.6 liter stock bore 5.0 stroker with 335 hp and stock GT40P heads CNC machined and did the same thing....


    Even the GT40 non P for 1992 was designed to match the 351c from the old 1971-1974 Pantera 5.8 liter days.


    Initially in 1990, it was 305 hp, then downgraded to 248 hp for emissions, it took about 10 years of "GalŠpagos Island" development by Aston Martins Tickford to bring it back up to an above 1970-1974 351C 285, 295, 310, 330 net horsepower level found in the foreign export Panteras.

    Notice that from 1990 to 1996, the De Tomaso Pantrea Si basically matched the bigger US Ford Mustang/Torino 351C engine power ratings:-

    The earlier 1970-1971 265, 285, 300, 330 gross (which were 16% over reported, except the Boss 351, which was the same as the Boss 302, in excess of 330 hp net).

    and the later 1972-1974 248, 266 and 275 net hp readings the US emissions Fat Stang and Torinos used.




    See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...stang-for-2020


    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrEFI View Post
    ..........

    I have a bit of a prejudice against old school engines, especially carbed. My only experiences with them have been a nightmare of constant tweaking. My brother's BBC powered '79 Capri race car built in the '80s and '90s was just a mess. Overheated at the drop of a hat, uncomfortable (gutted interior, stupid rollcage to contort around to get in it every time), engine and trans never seemed happy, wouldn't idle, etc. All for an 11 second quarter mile. Then there was my highly modified 289 I bought from its builder I had in my '87 Mustang, and my junky '86 Bronco with a carbed 351. Those were okay, but the overall experience gave the impression they were just barely keeping it together. And so on. So, that's where I'm coming from.

  4. #4
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    I'm running a Weiand Stealth on the 351W in my Crown Vic and I am happy with it. I think it is a great all around intake manifold. I don't think you are going to be losing much/any low end with the Stealth versus the Street Warrior. I can't remember the cam specs I'm running, but I think it is .472/.496 (don't remember duration) with stock DO heads.

    I'm also running a TV geometry corrector on the carb to get the proper TV cable travel relative to throttle.
    https://www.amazon.com/Sonnax-AOD-Ho...a-600015278044
    '89 XR-7 5 Speed
    '95 SC 5 Speed
    '91 Crown Vic P72 351W
    '97 Thunderbird
    '85 Ford LTD Squire

  5. #5
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Auto 5.0 Explorers and Mustang engines are very hard to work through. The AOD is fantastic if set up with a looser converter. The Step 1, 2 and 3 intakes always make excellent power and torque.

    Examples:-

    In 1992, the 25 Th Anniversary EB Falcon GT sedan engine was 1993 Mustang Cobra engine, but its cam and heads were sourced preproduction from the SVO catalogue, and hot tested at Fords Watson Engineerings Q1 certified assembly plant. In any case, the Automatic version had a 126 to 130 mph fuel cutoff, and a different kind of EECIV mapping, with any over tightnened upstream goosenecks suddenly ripping out maybee 29 hp from the normal 266 to 274 net hp rating. That is what happened when a preproduction 4 speed AOD Falcon GT failed to break the 16 second barrier and the 130 mph mark, when the stock T5 did 142 mph, top speed and a 15.3 second quarter with 3628 pounds to pull around.

    The divergence from a great performance to a slower than stock 225 hp 5.0 1/4 mile time was clear. And it was all based on a leak in the MAF sensor gooseneck bracket according to Tickfords David Flint.

    Sorry for the metrics, but its an epic read of what actually happened with the imported 1993 Cobra Mustang engine used in the Australian made Ford sedan.

    kw to hp conversion, kw x 0.7456 = Hp
    km/h to mph conversion, km/h /1.60934 = mph
    kg to lb conversion, kg /2.2046223 = lb

    http://arc.bauer.x-cago.net/vw/editi...1-012-19921201

    The whole magazine http://arc.bauer.x-cago.net/vw/editi...pub=WHL&dp=WHL

    This loss of horspower excerise is a Tickford institution, when the same thing happened with the press AMV8 Vantage in the late 1977 Motor magazine car test. It blew up an axle, and then got crashed. Twice. Its okay, it was just a converted pre-production Vantage...

    Back then, no-one knew the four Weber 48 IDF2/100 carbed engine made 390 hp net (Aston Martion never reported horspower readings, just like Rolls Royce. But the West German TUV required them for registration purposes, so DIN net figures were retrospectively released ex Germany in 1981 for everyone to know. The same agency, Tickford, did DIN net hp readings for the 5.0 Cobra engine used in the 1992 EB Falcon. It was the same dyno used in the 1977 Jermey Sinek Motor test I read as a young 12 year old in 1982)

    In 1977, the Newport Pagnel chassis dyno showed the 14 second 1977 Fred Waters engine was 37 hp down on power at the flywheel, only making 353 hp net. That a 3858 pound car can still do 167 mph and 0-100 mph in 13.2 seconds with an engine missing 37 hp is an example of how tempremental high hp engines can be.

    Source:SUPERCARS OF THE SEVENTIES Jeremy Sinek Publication Date: 1982




    that's kinda where EFi is, and always has been, historically.



    Not my words.

    26 year old History.


    All I know is that its nothing to drop 30 hp by just overtightening a 50 cent resonator clasp.

    266 to 274 hp and 15.3 second quarter miles, to less performance than the stock 225 hp 5.0. Clearly, a 1 second 1/4 mile ET loss is more than just 20 hp.

    According to the inferred info from David Flint, the loss was up to 24 hp (10%) due to lean WOT air fuel.

    I can do it in a few turns of a flat head screw.



    Page 14 Jan 1993.




    ref



    Some specfic parts were different, but the engine block was the same, the heads, cam and intake were the same, just reversed like it was on the Bank fire 5 and 5.8 liter trucks and the Panther 5.0 Crown Vic's and Gran Marq's


  6. #6
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Even just on 254 hp net maketh a huge 146 mph with a Fat Falcon and an AOD. And a 14.9 sec 1/4 mile two up in a 3650 pound car without passengers.

    Just as an Automatic in a wind jammer Falcon, the Cobra R SVT 5.0 engine was in fact the 3rd fasted Australian Ford V8 in rank from 1921 to 2016,

    better than the Cobra R SVT 5.0 engined but alloy headed XR8 Sprint, and some other Barra 4 liter Turbo Falcons.

    See https://www.whichcar.com.au/features...n-the-autobahn


    See as well http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-transmissions



    That 145 mph top wack on a less clean through the air Fox Box Mustang or other non 1983-1988 Tbird Fox body technically requires 311 flywheel hp net (245 rwhp net) with a 0.40 drag factor Mustang with 22 sq feet of frontal area.


    That's so easy to do with a 5.0


    At 2800 to 3100 rpm, you might have 260 lb-ft, and maybe 330 lb-ft at 4000 rpm if you car is worked, but it won't do that if the ratios aren't closer.


    And finally, if you want to know how to gear a car for more than 141 mph and sub 14.6 second quarter miles,

    then the Aussies have been doing it from 1971 to 2016 with US/Aussie Made engines...


    Five 141 to 185 mph examples below, a sort of like a Jurassic Dyno Park!!!!

    And the Holden Calais Director was what the US Mustang 5.0 GT 2V, 4v and EFi was modeled off,
    a 276 degree cammed production 4-bbl carb car that dropped 14's and did 147 mph...

    5 th 141 MPH at 6200 rpm (quoted from three other sources as 141 mph, but 144 indicated)
    14.6 sec 1/4 mile at 95 mph

    1971 Phase III GTHO FALCON 351, (Mustang 351 M code )
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjDyl6Pjp1Q
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrVabs0SXZg
    350 hp net at 6150 rpm, (Mick Webb, Hot 302S AND 351s 1990)
    Cobra Jet 428/Boss 302 4160 780 cfm Holley 3310 4-bbl vac sec carb
    300 degree solid lifter, 505 thou lifft cam
    H-M Tri Y headers and dual exhasts
    3.25:1 axle,
    ER 70 14 tires,
    Wide Ratio Top Loder 4 speeed
    Ist 2.78
    2nd 1.93
    3rd 1.29
    4th 1.00:1 (3.25:1 overall)

    4th 147 MPH at 4600 rpm
    14.64 sec 1/4 mile at 95 mph
    1985 Brock HDT Holden Calais 5.0 Calais Director
    https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/feature...velvet-thunder
    228 hp net at 4800 rpm,
    725 cfm Rochester 4MC
    304 cubic in Big Valvewith stock 276 degree XT5 Holden camshaft
    H-M Tri Y headers
    3.08:1 axle,
    Pirelli P7 225/60 15 tires,
    Ist 3.35,
    2nd 1.93
    3rd 1.29
    4th 1.00,
    5th 0.73:1 (2.25:1 overall)

    3rd 146 mph at 4550 rpm
    14.9 sec 1/4 mile at 92 mph
    1997 EL Ford Falcon GT with 1997 Explorer Truck 5.0 with GT40P heads and GT 40 intake
    https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/feature...n-the-autobahn
    254 hp net at 4700 rpm
    Non OBD II EEC V Engine management
    5.0 Exporer V8 with big valve GT40P's and the E303 variation, non 256/266 cam
    H-M Tri Y headers
    3.27 axle
    245/40R17 Yokohama A510 tires
    BTR Borg Warner Ion LE 97 4stage AOD
    Ist 2.39:1
    2nd 1.45:1
    3rd 1.00:1
    4th 0.67:1 (2.19:1 overall)

    2 nd 157 MPH at 6150 rpm (quoted from three other sources such as Dr John Wright in Wheels 1983 as 156 mph.Unrev -limited, 170 mph was at 6700 rpm, as Bill Santuccione, the late Howard Marsden, and David Bowden [owner of two] have indicated is possiable)
    1/4 mile unreported, but faster than 1971 car
    1972 Phase IV GTHO FALCON 351,
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si1dSF0VN4s
    390 hp net at 6150 rpm, (Ford Special Vehicles Bill Santuccione, Australian Muscle Car )
    Cobra Jet 428/Boss 302 4160 780 cfm Holley 3310 4-bbl vac sec carb
    300 degree solid lifter, 505 thou lifft cam
    H-M Tri Y headers and dual exhasts (bigger diameter than 1970-1971 GTHO)
    3.00:1 axle,
    205/70 VR 15 Pirelli CN 36 tires,
    Wide Ratio Top Loder 4 speeed
    Ist 2.78
    2nd 1.93
    3rd 1.29
    4th 1.00:1 (3.00:1 overall)

    I st 185 mph at 6600 rpm in 5th, not 6th gear
    1/4mile 12.8 sec at 111 mph
    2014 Ford Falcon FPV GT-F
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zVTMAOiL-8
    470 hp at 6000 rpm ( 537 hp at 6000 on overboost)/420 lb-ft 2500 - 5500 rpm
    5.0 litre supercharged Boss V8
    3.73 axle
    275/30 R 19Y tires
    TR6060 6-spd manual; or ZF HP26E 6-spd auto
    1st 2.98 (11.11 overall)
    2nd 1.78 (6.64 overall)
    3rd 1.30 (4.85 overall)
    4th 1.00 (3.73 overall)
    5th 0.71 (2.65 overall)
    6th 0.55 (2.05 overall)

  7. #7
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Here's a distilation of what I've said in the past.

    Normally , an EECV ECM remap for 93 or 95 test fuel is an 8 to 12% boost in power and torque. An example of this is the Power Chip for the non OBDII EECV Ford Australi used on its 1998 to 2002 XR8 based 5.0 engines. Just that Car Craft Explorer engine with modifications.

    On the engines over the stock 248 and 268 hp XR8 tune (so called 185 and 200 KW XR8 Falcon engines), there is not the factor of safety to go into 8-12% power gains by spark and air fuel ratio changes. But I'd say you can get into the 325 hp zone with ease if you duplicate the Synergy 5000 tune.

    The earlier 248 engine could rise to 270 hp(201 kW) and 304-lb-ft to 327 lb-ft (444Nm)


    The later 268 engine to 300 hp(224 kW) and from 310 lb-ft to 344 lb-ft (466Nm) with ECM remapping. In fact, at 2000 rpm, it peaks out at 348 lb-ft or 472 Nm.






    See http://www.powerchipgroup.com/datasheets/1/FOR0091.pdf

    and http://powerchipgroup.com/datasheets/1/FOR0081.pdf


    The Explorer block casting and intake manifold machining were actually low points. Car Craft waxes eloquent on the quality of it, but it was the process engineering , not the woe full lumps of mix slag and poor matching tha turned the ratbag FT engine from a frog into a prince prodcution piece for sure.

    What makes the Explorer package so good is when you do further blue printing to it, and go for more aggressive base ECM tune.

    Ford left a huge factor of safety in these engines for emissions compliance and powertrain warranty. They removed the 5.0 forged pistons from 1993, and re-worked out the prodcution reliabity like seasoned professionals. Those weak block engine blocks could then take a real pounding with 125 extra hp and be turn key reliable in those Antipodean Falcons. 6000 rpm with a 3.4" stroke 5.6 cranked "347" is proof of how much quality Ford put into every Explorer Pizza Base? Youbetcha!

    Unlike the proffessionalism from the US car tuner guys, who have CARB, CAFE, the EPA breathing down your necks, the Aussie engine tunes on the export Explorer engines were harder to lock down. The info is there, though, and it is truly fanatical in micro level if you know where to look.

    The good thing was the honest rating for Australian Emission compliance int DIN net in bhp and lb-ft, with the stock exhaust system, so I know how hard it was to even get the fabled 295 hp at 5250 rpm and 321 lb-ft at 4000 rpm of the Tickford V8's. To get that, they had

    1. a special cam,
    2. Yella Terra roller rockers,
    3. Yella Terra CNC ported and matched heads,
    4. intake maniofld blue printing.
    5. A new EECV bin code base engije map calibration for emissions and warranty purposes.


    For the 5.6, with a vast amount of specific mods to the intake, you only got 335 bhp net at 5250 rpm and and 369 lb-ft at 4000 rpm as result from the huge throttle body, lower and upper intake, cam and a further EECV ECM recalibration.

    And then, there is metrics. Now, not to be anti anything, but IMHO, Metrics are the spawn of S@+@n...

    All this is why I can affirm the EFI 5.0's limit to a safe 295 flywheel hp net with GT40P's and the last 2000 to 2002 Synergy 5000 Engine tune.

    Info on it is here.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...hat-EFI-intake

    For my favorite goal setting, I like Honesty Box information. See http://www.fiveohinfo.com/viewdyno.php.

  8. #8
    FEP Super Member mmb617's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinVarnes View Post
    I'm running a Weiand Stealth on the 351W in my Crown Vic and I am happy with it. I think it is a great all around intake manifold. I don't think you are going to be losing much/any low end with the Stealth versus the Street Warrior. I can't remember the cam specs I'm running, but I think it is .472/.496 (don't remember duration) with stock DO heads.
    Excuse me for going a little off topic here but I'm glad to hear you are happy with the Weiand Stealth on what sounds like a pretty stock 351W. My son is building a '67 Mustang and using a roller 351, which currently has stock cam and heads. He's been researching intakes as he wants to fit under a stock hood and was told the best choices that will fit were either the Stealth or Performer RPM.

    What carb are you using? He's thinking maybe a vacuum secondary 650 as that would give him some room for future upgrades to heads and cam.
    408/T5/3.73's

    We're not fast racers, we're more what's known as half fast racers.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmb617 View Post
    What carb are you using? He's thinking maybe a vacuum secondary 650 as that would give him some room for future upgrades to heads and cam.
    PM sent.
    '89 XR-7 5 Speed
    '95 SC 5 Speed
    '91 Crown Vic P72 351W
    '97 Thunderbird
    '85 Ford LTD Squire

  10. #10
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    if your staying carb, the Weiand 8020 Stealth intake manifold.Its to a degree an Edelbrock Performer 3721 replacement. If that's what you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marz View Post
    This is what i'm going to toss on my 85 gt with gt40 heads. A stealth 8020. Should help my combo a lot. Right now its a 331, gt40, rr, tfs1, a stock ported 85 intake and a built stock 4180c. Once this intake is on the heads will be the bottle neck.


    The previous non Weiand options were these:-

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...dations-advice

    Personal advice. I haven't done this, but I've done a lot of carb research.



    The 4bbl is a much miss understood beast that has a huge amount of hidden performance in it. Having a numbers match block is of value f your enjoyment is the main aim. Anytime anything goes wrong, you can get stock parts to fix it. An 89 EFI engine upgrade without EFI is always going to be a mismatch, and someone might force you to update the whole engine combo. Better to keep your 84 all 84 if you can.

    Best thing 101 is...if you have the '86-'93 style H-pipe cat back system, and its dual exhaust now with a proper brake line update, then if yes to that, then its like JACook's 85 CFI Vert, an upgrade none but a zealot wold pick.

    i.e. a straight JBA long tube and 86 on-wards exhaust system upgrade which is where a huge boost in power comes from. You have a thermatic valve heat pickup which can be hooked up to the passenger side header as per JACook's advice in fgross's 84 CFI Convertible exhaust system.

    My integrated list would be to

    revert to the stock 84 engine and emissions package, its simply excellent.

    Since it is a hydraulic non roller cam run in properly, the cam will last without the old zinc additive that oil used to have. No advantage in a roller cam engine or block.

    Sell the rest for good money.




    Do three things.

    1. Grab the secondary metering kit upgrade, the

    2. Then the Edlebrock # 3721 intake and 4-bbl 8053 EGR adaptor, and have the # 3721 opened up and ported with a die grinder to improve its flow rating, and for the 8053 EGR, have it re profiled as a HVV Super Sucker adapter below.

    3. Do the GT40P head swap with Andersons valve springs and new seals. Have the heads shaved 70 thou to match the earlier 84 heads to keep compression up to 8.4 or more, the thermactor lines drilled, and the gt40p identifications removed. 86 header swap as per

    Info
    1. http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...603#post542603
    2. http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...pgrade-stocker

    3a.
    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    The Edelbrock 3721 is the only 4-barrel intake currently offered that will retain the EGR
    and also the two thermal vacuum switches at the back.

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-3721/?image=large


    If you don't have a factory 4-barrel EGR spacer, you can get a used factory one from
    someone here on the board. Edelbrock also sells an EGR plate that would work-
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-8053/?image=large

    The Edelbrock plate does not have all the same vacuum nipples as the factory plate,
    but the only one you need is the one for the canister purge, and it has that one.
    EDL-3721



    EDL-8053


    3b.
    Quote Originally Posted by n2omaverick View Post
    Stock intake is and always will be the bottle neck. Yes it can be ported but the lack of material and very small section width limits what it can me made to do. The edlbrock performer is a substantial upgrade and yet it is a very very weak intake that also needs tons off runner and plennum work to make any real power over 5500rpms.
    The performer rpm airgap is the best and tallest intake that can be run under a stock hood with the dual snorkel aircleaner while still allowing factory coil and throttle cable locations. This intake also allows you to hide the wiring harness in the valley. It will support over 400 hp out of the box but the factory heads will be the next bottleneck for you to overcome.
    If your sticking to the factory intake replace the egr with a hhv super sucker and give the intake to Tmoss for porting.
    1" supersucker pictured. Night and day difference when i installed one on my 83. Had to increase jets by 3 sizes after to compensate.



    All this allows you to keep to simple VECI, EVTM and wiring stuff, and maintain emissions, economy and the rampant punch the last 85 4-bbl engines are known for. Ford spent millions on that emissions package and four corner idle 4-bbl carb.

    84's are quite restricted, but in two steps for 84.5 and again for 85, the engine went up from 175 to 210 hp, and it wasn't the roller cam that made much of a improvement, it was unblocking the exhaust in two steps.

  11. #11

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    I have to agree, the Stealth is a great manifold. I run the older 8011 on the street and have for years, very happy with it, good manners. My setup is worked over stock Holley, 1 inch 4 hole spacer, heavily modified iron heads, forged trw flattops, Crower 280 HDP cam. This is an old school build, but I'd resposive smooth and makes good power up to 6300 rpms.

  12. #12
    FEP Super Member bwguardian's Avatar
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    I've been very happy with my original Ford Racing M-9424-F302 intake...I think they are being made again after Ford discontinued them. I have it installed with a stock modified 4180c carb, GT40p heads (with better springs, retainers, and 10* locks), Ford Racing E-303 cam, and stock 1985 bottom end with 120k on it. I just decided to keep everything Ford or Ford Racing on it. The car will pull well past 6,000 rpm, has good idle, and very good street manners...throttle response is much like fuel injection.

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  13. #13

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    So basically the consensus is that any of the decent dual plane intake would be more than good enough?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    FEP Senior Member OX1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    IMHO, if its still CFi wired, convert to speed density Port EFi. 95% of the wiring is there.

    5.0's were the first Tuned Port Injection engines.


    The Australians were able to run the 1993 SVT Cobra R 5.0 235 hp rated engine as a 268 hp EB Falcon or EL Falcon GT engine from 1993 to 1998, initially with with GT40 non P heads, then the P's.
    Which USA available, speed density EEC-IV would run an explorer motor without piggyback tuning?
    86 Capri, 5.0, 5Spd, A9L QH/BE, 47 lb Inj PMAS 3" MAF, Single T44 Turbo, Front Mount IC, TW170,
    Stock Cam, Explr Intake/TB, 1.7 Rockers, CF dual friction clutch, 3" DP, 2.5" full Exh, 3.27, 11.932 @ 115.78
    84 LTD, 331-10:1, TW170/Exprl Intake, 47 lbs inj/80 mm LMAF, Full Duals, Quarterhorse, Vortech 7PSI, Lentech AOD, 5 lug Mk VII brakes/rear, Eibach Sway bars, Cobra HB (dads ride, but I fix it )

  15. #15
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OX1 View Post
    Which USA available, speed density EEC-IV would run an explorer motor without piggyback tuning?



    Um, if its gonna use stock 1997-2001 Explorer EDIS, which hasn't been discussed, then you have to use a later box code activated PIDs EECIV that takes the three code inputs. Ford eliminated stand-alone MAP control, so Speed Density is out if you use a later 1988 EDIS capable computer.


    If you are going back to dual synch TFi as per the 1986 to 1994 engines, then its easier.


    Speed Density, the stock computer runs out and needs a prop up for revs.

    There is a workaround in one of EECIV's Bin codes, doing the same kind of thing MS does. Its the low speed signal loss that causes the issues.

    CFYI All our Aussie XR8 engines from 1992 to the last were MAF.


    First choice , the PiMPxs Standalone Engine Management (Sequential EFI)



    Second choice, Megasquirt MS2E using the dual synch TFi.


    Down here, we used to piggy back tune for sedan car racing, but now, most use EMS Stinger 4424 ,



    not the same as the US Stinger or PiMP.

  16. #16

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    Be careful. If you are retaining a lot of the original vacuum tubing - emission provisions, you need a manifold with a rear water crossover. The 8011 and Stealth Weiand and the Performer have this provision, most of the others don't.

    Kenny

  17. #17
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudgepondexpress View Post
    Be careful. If you are retaining a lot of the original vacuum tubing - emission provisions, you need a manifold with a rear water crossover. The 8011 and Stealth Weiand and the Performer have this provision, most of the others don't.

    Kenny
    Use these US Ford solutions. Not an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    Here's the part again for the two trees.




    Find it from any old 1980 iirc, C code 250/4.1 liter .

    B code 1980-1982 3.3 liter

    X code 1983 3.3 liter


    Pinto 2000 engines had them too.



  18. #18
    FEP Senior Member OX1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    Um, if its gonna use stock 1997-2001 Explorer EDIS, which hasn't been discussed, then you have to use a later box code activated PIDs EECIV that takes the three code inputs. Ford eliminated stand-alone MAP control, so Speed Density is out if you use a later 1988 EDIS capable computer.


    If you are going back to dual synch TFi as per the 1986 to 1994 engines, then its easier.


    Speed Density, the stock computer runs out and needs a prop up for revs.

    There is a workaround in one of EECIV's Bin codes, doing the same kind of thing MS does. Its the low speed signal loss that causes the issues.

    CFYI All our Aussie XR8 engines from 1992 to the last were MAF.

    Assuming using distributor and TFI, I guess I still don't understand this statement then....

    "IMHO, if its still CFi wired, convert to speed density Port EFi. 95% of the wiring is there"

    Did Ford make a SD port EFI explorer motor at some point?
    86 Capri, 5.0, 5Spd, A9L QH/BE, 47 lb Inj PMAS 3" MAF, Single T44 Turbo, Front Mount IC, TW170,
    Stock Cam, Explr Intake/TB, 1.7 Rockers, CF dual friction clutch, 3" DP, 2.5" full Exh, 3.27, 11.932 @ 115.78
    84 LTD, 331-10:1, TW170/Exprl Intake, 47 lbs inj/80 mm LMAF, Full Duals, Quarterhorse, Vortech 7PSI, Lentech AOD, 5 lug Mk VII brakes/rear, Eibach Sway bars, Cobra HB (dads ride, but I fix it )

  19. #19
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    OX1, no speed density port EFI for Fords except for the EECIV 4.9 5.0/5.8/7.5 trucks.


    In the USA truck world, Speed Density continued in EFi trucks right till the 1995 era.


    EPA's 1991 to 2003 clampdown between the Desert Storm and Shock & Awe means your Ford engines went global.

    What you missed out on was the easy going 221-235-248-268-295-335 horsepower net EECV versions that were 95% Explorer, with 5% Chuck Champman/Jac Naaser style Export "Complementation" program,

    where the US got Mercury Capris, and Australia got imported Windsor design, Cleveland plant 5.0 OHV V8's via Canada.

    Some of it was CNC machined local reworks of US parts, others form special Ford Racing uncatalogued parts with factory support.

    The ED XR8 Sprint and later 1998-1999 AU aluminum heads were part of that.

    In the USA, Saleen took over from the Shelby style engines, doing emissions legal S351's in the 305 to 371 hp area.

    Racefab had to go it alone, and spend a lot of money making the 1993-1999 Windsor 351 the exceptional gap filler with Trickflow or Edelbrock heads but in Australia, Ford had to self funded it at a sub 371 hp level.


    The MAF and EDIS8 EECV allows emissions legality in any zone up to 400 hp if twin throttle bodies are used.

    The factory 5.0 block is only a liability in the hurley- burly of endurance racing 350 to 450 hp zone.

    The factory AVESCO 5liter Ford SVO block was used for race cars, with NASCAR illegal A3 Yates heads and port EFI, and it rapidly morphed out to 630 hp.

    Ford USA clearly drew a line in the sand; they gave de Tomaso 5 liter 248 to 305 hp engines in the Si Pantera.

    And Ford Australia 630 hp SVO EFI race blocks.

    The gap in between was never "Explorer-ed". Except in Australia.

















    Info for those who wanna know....



    Down here, from 1985 to 1991 in the Cleveland V8-less eternity of Ford Australia,

    EECIV was Fords chosen way to integrate ignition, EFi and meet emissions and reliability requirements, without a MAF sensor, and just one really big 70 to 75 mm throttle body on our later SOHC 3.9 & 4.0 Liter and earlier 4.1 250 sixes.

    From 1995, the EPA pushed Dearbon into a corner with EECV and EECIV Speed Density was on the out field.

    Especially since Ford didn't want to use the Mitsubishi or Mopars Barman-Vortex air speed sensor, and didn't want to get into Honda style EPA violation slugs, or use the GM style Eric Clappton Unplugged MAF facility.



    The Explorer/Mountaineer 5.0 was FIRSTLY a light SUV, so it had to use passenger car specification CAFE economy engines, so it had to use the latest EECV and EDIS.

    They were only ever MAF. Chrysler and GM kept fully speed density EFi for a few years into 1995 OBD11 cars and trucks, on GM cars it was a limp home, but the MAP sensor could keep operation with a Check Engine light code.

    Ford didn't wanna do that.


    When anyone talks an Explorer engine swap, they have to consider the delicate blend of

    What ignition downgrade
    What induction downgrade
    What Engine management system downgrade.
    What roller cam change to move up from the ancient 351M/400 2V cam profile it has. Its not a patch on any of the MN12 T bird or Cougar 5.0 / HO Mustang or SVT grinds.

    The Explorer/ Mercury Mountwhatever engine was the best ever production base to make Boss 302 or Boss 351 or 390 4bbĺ power like the 295 and 335 horsepower versions of it did.

    Que this http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ce-it-up/page2



    Quote Originally Posted by Mesozoic View Post
    Cool buildup.

    The stock 5.0L EFI engine is severely underrated.

    It's very easy to squeeze 400 hp (at the crank) out of a stock shortblock using only bolt ons.

    I'm curious what you're thinking of doing for tuning your EEC-V.

    I have 2 EEC-V vehicles in my life, one is a '71 Mustang that I retrofitted with EEC-V (CDAN4 strategy) and have successfully tuned it to run a 10.3:1 408 stroker mated to a built up 4R70W transmission.

    The other is a 2000 Mercury Mountaineer, totally stock with a 5.0L and 4R70W transmission.

    The issue with the Mounty is that it uses a REAC4 strategy EEC-V. The only bonafide tuneable EEC-V I'm aware of is the CDAN4, so perhaps you can get yours working nicely with that. My '71 has EDIS8 and even dual independent electric fan control working with the EEC-V.


    For the USA, exhaust duration on the cam limited peak power. The planned 25th Anniversary Mustang supplied to Ford by Jack Roush was a basic Marine R351 SVT style engine made 7 years earlier.

    That Turbo 351 Windsor made in excess of 375 hp in late 1988, but Ford were pi%%ed with Roush, because they didn't want to go Turbo and create a small block Arms race. The big stopper to 400 factory HP from a 5.0 was in fact not the heads, but the emissions and upper intake flow. They didn't want to go back to canted valve Cleveland heads, like the Yates or A3's, and the alloy headed Y 303's were an easy option.

    Away from the Ranch, the Aussies were playing up....with Delco P4 Cal Pak Speed Density Holden 5 liter V8's that cold make just shy of 490 hp in a race car with
    factory iron heads,
    factory NASCAR Chev rods,
    factory Hyper Eutectic pistons,
    flat tappet hydraulic camshafts, a
    Compared to the earlier factory backed race cars, there was a real 60 hp gain on the earlier 430 hp 4-bbl Quadrajet L34 and A9X/A9L engines.

    Most of that came from the NASCAR con rods and the intake manifold.

    The Hoden 304 heads moved from Chevy 350 Gen I to Ford Windsor 5.0 / BOP 215/Rover 3500 cam and exhaust spacings, with Holden copying the Fox Mustang 4bbl intake and headers on the new EFi engines Walkinshaw devised....themselves, variations on that 1961 Buick Oldsmobile Pontiac based Rover 3500 engine....the 215/302 and 304 having 4.3125, 4.375 and 4.400" bore spacing's, 9.0, 8.206 and 8.9" decks, and you could swap over intake manifolds, rocker covers and exhaust headers, so the first Walkinshaw Rover Throttle body intake was then copied by the US turbo EFi Mustangs with DFi, and then by Holden for the Commodore Group A versions.


    The effort in Ford 5.0 in the USA in the late 88 to 89 era was only to create a new bread of the halcyon day 69-73 S, Q or R code FE/Boss 302 or 351 4V HO or Boss Cleveland style engines with that 4-bbl 750 to 780 cfm top and mid range power with vastly improved economy.

    MAF was required to do that and meet emissions.

    The whole US project, which ended up with 4 valve per cylinder heads, was wound down with Premier Automotive, Fords Volvo, Jag, Aston Martin and Rover acquisitions gave Ford a new list of V6, V8 and V12 DOHC or Quad cam engines to focus on, and well before that, Ford Australia was given the go ahead to make some hairy monster 5.0s.

    the narrow bore spacing 3.937, 4.0157 engines gave Ford engines and mass production reliability to Jaguar and Aston Martin. It ment the US plant engines picked up Ferrari casting quality aluminium blocks, and todays 850 hp engines are made on 3.937 inch 100 mm bore spacing engines that are loved to bits, 4.6, 5.0, 5.4's. Even 6.8 V10's, and plug throwing 3 valvers have a place.

    The death of the forged piston 5.0 in 1993, ment Ford used F150 truck engine ancillaries, and then MN12's, then after 1996, the Aussie copied the US EECV from the 210 to 215 hp Explorer.


    There are fairly common mapped EECV MAF bin code bases from which you can upgrade to, and they don't require the gray cable input the OBDII systems do.

    They are really simple. If its Tweecer you like, you can upgrade to the next hp level from these basic set ups. Moates J3 activated requires a bin code they, or

    221 hp 6DFC 1996 EL XR8 manual HO 5ltr
    235 hp 6DFD 1998 EL XR8 Manual HO 5ltr (Explorer Intake)
    235 hp 6DGC 1996 NL Fairlane Ghia auto HO 5ltr
    235 hp 6DGD 1997 EL Fairmont Ghia auto HO 5ltr

    There are other box/bin codes, including the rare less than 2500 and sometimes less than 250 per year higher performance engines,
    the

    248 hp,
    268 hp,
    295 hp,
    and 335 hp versions the USA didn't get.

    As stated, the engines were 100% USA 5.0 engines, but some were re assembled in Australia and re-plateau honed at the bores and reworked with a percentage of Australian made performance parts like the old Quality Control Seasoned Block Falcon GT HO 351 4V engines were from 1969 to July 1972.

    Info provided and maintained by Jaysen Anderson & Jason Bolger at TI Performance.

    https://www.tiperformance.com.au/Doc...20Part%201.pdf

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