Is the Mustang next................

[OX1]

It gets even better...

https://www.evo.co.uk/ford/mustang/201971/ford-plans-a-hot-mustang-mach-e-shelby

Saw it, pretty much closes the deal that the mustang we know and love, is going to be no more, not
that far off into the future.

[gr79]

Interesting times but the high cost of using batteries for everything is upsetting.
Battery tools are great but cost a lot. The balance of tradeoffs.




"-or to deceive by appearance"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_Horse

[ZephyrEFI]

At least there's precedent for non-Mustang Shelbys, such as Shelby F-150s.

I heard Ford made some movie to convince Mustang fans it was okay they named their stupid poop emoji on big tires thing "Mustang". I have about as much interest in watching that as I do learning what the lump thing's actual merits are. None. 1) I will NEVER accept its name, and 2) Ford has been positioning the Mustang as a premium product for wealthy boomers lately, so I'm certain the glob thing too will be priced way beyond my range.

[gr79]

Other automakers are working on electrics too, some cool some not.
Tesla pickup truck in the news.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/t...eam-elon-musk/

What happened to turbine and fuel cell power for cars?

I do think a battery op riding lawn mower, like Ryobi's, is cool but costs too much for what it does.

Vehicles have many items that run on electric. HVAC, lights, systems, and accessories with power assist motors.

[11secGT]

It gets even better...

https://www.evo.co.uk/ford/mustang/201971/ford-plans-a-hot-mustang-mach-e-shelby

OMG, after watching Ford-vs.Ferrari I was just saying to myself Carroll must be doing doughnuts in his grave over this. Call it what ever you want but not Mustang and get the horse off this rolling turd amongst a sea of rolling SUV turds. The SCCA wouldn't even let Ford race a '60's Mustang as a 2+2 two door without Shelby removing the rear seat but now the Mustang will be a 4-door grocery-getter...and they called it a "secretary's car" when it came out. FAIL Ford FAIL.

[gmatt]

You mean except for the 31% of people in the USA that DIDN'T buy SUV's or trucks................
Must be "great" to just give up on that market share.

But what did the majority of that 31% buy? Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, Acura, Toyota, etc. Guess Ford don't want to play on that field.

Millenials WANT electric cars, or no cars.

Even F1 has an electric car class. Kind of weird though; if you can't see the cars, you don't even know there's a race going on.

Not to worry though. It'll take a looong time to phase out gas powered vehicles.

[ZephyrEFI]

I saw a clickbait article that said "Electrics in NASCAR Sooner Than You Think". Isn't the roar supposed to be part of the NASCAR experience? That really made me laugh. But then again, I'm not a NASCAR fan...

There was another one there that said something about how the poop emoji thing "earned" the Mustang name. I was not baited to click on it.

[gmatt]

Nascar completely missed the boat. Held on to the past for too long. That's a whole 'nother topic though.

Attaching the Mustang name to an electric SUV is just an attempt to lure buyers who might otherwise be interested in a 'real' Mustang. Buyers who are concerned with their carbon footprint or just want to be on the leading edge of performance oriented electric vehicles. If an SUV can be considered performance oriented. But I guess when there things like Hellcat Jeeps and Ecoboost Explorers exist anything is possible.
Electric cars are coming, like it or not. We've still got our dino burners......for now. After the 'cash for clunkers' thing, I wouldn't be surprised to see a law against licensing cars over a certain age.

[OX1]

But what did the majority of that 31% buy? Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, Acura, Toyota, etc. Guess Ford don't want to play on that field.

Millenials WANT electric cars, or no cars.

Even F1 has an electric car class. Kind of weird though; if you can't see the cars, you don't even know there's a race going on.

Not to worry though. It'll take a looong time to phase out gas powered vehicles.

Ford sold 174000 fusions last year. On pace to sell even more this year.
And that's a car they completely gave up on.............

[gmatt]

Ford sold 174000 fusions last year. On pace to sell even more this year.
And that's a car they completely gave up on.............

How many were fleet vehicles? I don't know. They must not be making enough per unit profit. I know the SUV market is just as crowded as the sedan market. GM makes $17K profit on large pick ups, probably more on Suburbans/Tahoes. That's GM not the dealers. http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/08/...up-on-average/

[gmatt]

On a lighter note, the Mustang E looks a heckuva lot better than Tesla's Cyber truck.

[ZephyrEFI]

How many were fleet vehicles? I don't know. They must not be making enough per unit profit. I know the SUV market is just as crowded as the sedan market. GM makes $17K profit on large pick ups, probably more on Suburbans/Tahoes. That's GM not the dealers. http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/08/...up-on-average/

I really wonder about that. You have to wonder too about Ford's competitors' ability to make a profit on similar products selling in similar numbers. How do they somehow pull it off and Ford doesn't? It all seems like to me. They don't feel like trying hard enough to be competitive. It almost seems spiteful. Like a way at getting back at the UAW or something. You don't want to cooperate with us, then we're going to eliminate jobs!

I got the new Car and Driver yesterday, and was skimming over the article about the new Escape. The intro talks about Ford cancelling their "fun-to-drive, practical, and affordable" Focus and Fiesta and also mentions their "affordable and enjoyable" sedans they no longer sell. I found this ironic, because the automotive press has, by and large, been VERY hard of Ford's products. Like, oh sure, you like them now that it's too late! I have to wonder if Ford would have found them so disposable if C&D and their colleagues had been kinder to them. I know the Focus ST was able to claim the hot hatch crown for a short while, but only until the redesigned GTI came out. They are so narrow minded and focused on Veedub and Honda, that if a competing product takes a different path, they don't like it! In the very same issue, there's a midsize sedan comparison, and guess who won? The Accord! SHOCKING.

[wraithracing]

I can't guarantee these numbers are 100% accurate, but they appear to be at least relatively close.



As usual, you can see the sales numbers were good at least IMHO for the first couple of years of the redesign and begin to fall off like all models do as they continue unchanged. Maybe these numbers don't beat Honda and Toyota, but Ford doesn't seem to understand that they ignored this market for so long that they lost some lifetime buyers. Right or Wrong many believe Honda and Toyota build better more reliable cars and don't look at any other manufacturers no matter what. So no matter how good your Fusion or whatever is, these buyers are not interested because they are hardwired for Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc.

Honda redesigned the Accord in 2018 and Toyota the Camry in 2018, the Altima was just redesigned for 2019.

Of course Ford constantly talks about their Truck profits, but then again the F150 was 2009-2014, 2015-2020, with the new design coming in 2021. Same applies to the Super Duty 1999-2004, 2005-2007, 2008-2010, 2011-2016, 2017-2019, 2020-? Although most of those were upgrades and front end changes with the only full redesign in 2017 they kept the truck fresh and new every 5 years or less while incorporating more technology, power, convenience, etc. to keep buyers coming back. The difference between my 2004 F250 and the 2016 is night and day, then you jump to the new 2020 and its just unbelievable all the bells and whistle you can get. Of course the $75K+ price tag is a major issue for me right now, but apparently others don't mind spending the cash or carrying that level of debt.

I understand there's more profit in the Trucks and SUV, but the fact that they constantly change them up every couple of years helps to keep the desire and demand up which in turn increases profits and production numbers. Doing the same with sedans should work too, but apparently Ford doesn't get it or care because of their SUV and Truck profits . . . Until the next gas price hike and then . . . .

[OX1]

You may not get as much pure profit from lower price sedans, but you get
younger people into your product. If they like it, they may at least give some
preference to stay in the brand.

Ford completely abandoned that. I don't want to DD the real mustang or a truck/SUV.
I love DDing my Fusion Sport. Thing runs high 12's on only a tune and has pulled upwards of
over a G with only sway bars and summer tires (.9+ G's easy to do all the time). AWD
with perf AS's handles snow fine. It also looks like nothing special, cops don't even notice.

Probably end up with an ugly Stinger next, unfortunately.

[ZephyrEFI]

Ford completely abandoned that. I don't want to DD the real mustang or a truck/SUV.
I love DDing my Fusion Sport. Thing runs high 12's on only a tune and has pulled upwards of
over a G with only sway bars and summer tires (.9+ G's easy to do all the time). AWD
with perf AS's handles snow fine. It also looks like nothing special, cops don't even notice.

Wow, nice! I love my Fusion as well.

On the sales number chart, it's important to note too that Ford announced they were sh**canning all their sedans halfway through 2018. And they've done little to no marketing of it since then. If it was as bad as they seem to want to believe it is, it would not be selling this well!

The governor of Minnesota recently announced a push for closer to California emissions standards here. Ford is not going to get that selling trucks and high riding blobmobiles! Even if the federal government is currently letting the truck market run wild, there are still entities who care about the environment that can make a bad day for the auto manufacturers sidestepping emissions and mpg standards! They can't run away from this!

[ZephyrEFI]

I hate people.

Just saw an article that said the first series of Mach Es is SOLD OUT. I hope those lame mother****ers realize they just signed the death warrant for the traditional Mustang coupe.

[gmatt]

The governor of Minnesota recently announced a push for closer to California emissions standards here.

I thought all (new)cars/trucks complied with California emissions standards already? Cheaper for manufacturers to not have to produce a separate 'California emissions' model?

[gmatt]

You may not get as much pure profit from lower price sedans, but you get
younger people into your product. If they like it, they may at least give some
preference to stay in the brand.

Good point. Just look at who's driving Altimas, Civics and Hyundai whatevers.

[ZephyrEFI]

I thought all (new)cars/trucks complied with California emissions standards already? Cheaper for manufacturers to not have to produce a separate 'California emissions' model?

I think it's more about average mpg/emissions vs. total vehicles sold in the state by a given manufacturer.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[gr79]

Mustang front end still reminds me of a channel catfish.

[ZephyrEFI]

Ford and Chevy Are Losing Buyers after Discontinuing Compact Cars

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...DZ7qwrIhYWlvVI

And compact car buyers are exactly the people you need to become your loyal buyers! Once they get old and set in their ways, they'll keep replacing those Hondas and Toyotas with more Hondas and Toyotas. Compact buyers are the ones who are more willing to shop other brands and become those all-important conquest buyers. But nope, we don't care about them. Let the foreign brands who are already kicking out butts have them. Way to go, idiots.

[gr79]

Mfs seem to see design as primary sale feature? Its MSPR. Build one for a dollar and everyone will by it.
Prob will see more of that in coming years when leases are up or vehicle is wearing out.
Sticker shock as always. Car companies are experts at creating that. Prob the only thing.
Dump traded when non maintenance repairs are needed and expensive estimated repair cost is discovered.

Most DD are sold with purchase price, perceived dependability, 4 wheels, color, condition, major factors.
After selecting needed type, price is the bottom line.
Many do not want, use, nor care to learn all the center stack display menus. Radio, hvac thats it.
Dam sure have dull choice of colors. The lots and roads look full of generic fleet vehicles for years.

Chrysler Corp light weight 80's K vans were not bad to drive and looked decent boxy. LTD's, Crown Vic. Other brands too.
Now the overdone DD bundled content pods are a lot more awkward to climb in and out of due to overall height and seat height.
Visibility is 180 at best from the drivers seat. Anything behind and to the rear 1/4s are a guess. Parking one is a real pain.
Deep tint windows, mirrors, cameras do not make up for lack of it. Like driving a panel van or mini semi.
Automatic rear door is used when grocery shopping. Other than that how many new grills, TVs, do we need to haul?
They are perceived to be safer because of bulk and driving aids. Rare accurate unbiased stats really show no change or worse.

Find my Twin Cities built Ranger is great for hauling, but rarely do. Mostly used for A-B in bad weather or change of pace.
Kept because of great visibility and low ownership costs. And styled like something- a basic pickup truck. No 100.00+ keys.
100 hp 4cyl manual. STD cab 2wd. Has rarely stopped me from reaching or returning from destination. Like a modern Model T.
Our Mustangs are do it all cars. So many variations possible. Mine is black, 4 cyl. Again like a modern Model T.

Many desire a certain product and will pay. Vettes, muscle cars, 4wd, luxury cars/trucks. Newer low and mid level vehicles hard to find.
Otherwise, most needs are for DD transportation and grocery getting.
Families have more heads to haul so its a suv, but that's only for one generation.
Before or after family (if have one at all) span more years of driving. Like singles, who are ignored, charged family price of living.

[gr79]

https://www.motor1.com/news/374463/d...amaro-mustang/

Can you picture NASCAR racing suv's? NASSUV. Plenty of rollover action

[ZephyrEFI]

That's precisely why I want out of our van. It has TOO MUCH space! We never use it! I'd much rather trade that capability for the much better driving enjoyment and efficiency of a small car. Lesson learned! The TC has so much space, a typical trip to the grocery store's load ends up flopping all over the place back there. It's very frustrating.

And getting the latest gizmos? The Sync 3 in the van is a pain in the a$$. You MUST turn off the radio every time you turn the car off unless you want it to revert to AM/FM. The only decent FM station in town is currently playing Christmas music (and has been for some time), so it's pretty obnoxious to start the car and be greeted with that. I listen to satellite radio and ipod, neither of which will stay on if you turn the car off. Also, it CANNOT stay connected to my phone. It's vibrating in my pocket constantly because it's connecting and disconnecting nonstop the entire trip. The Fusion's much-maligned Microsoft Sync system is much more reliable! As a result, I no longer care about the latest gizmo like I used to.

It's interesting how the stars have aligned and pointed me this way. As usual, Ford has done it to themselves by cutting corners. Mullaly's goal was to put the best product out they could, no matter what the brand on the grille. Hackett seems to prefer max profit, even on high-profit crossovers, as well as more differentiation for Lincoln. I read the rest of that C&D article about the Escape, and I guess the new one has a very cheap looking interior. But the price is the same. Hackett quality at a Mullaly price. It's great they want to help Lincoln, but it's going to hurt them in the long run if the Fords aren't competitive! In a previous issue, the new RWD Explorer lost a comparison test. WTF, Ford?! How'd you pull that off?! THIS is your way forward?! Sure, the Lincoln versions are great, but are priced out of most people's range! I'll stick with my Mullaly era DDs, thanks.

And then, I recently saw a headline that Lincoln's sedans are doomed as well. You know, I used to get really excited about the New Car magazine issues coming out. I'd read them right away and just absorb every bit of it that I could. But every bit of news I hear coming out of Ford lately just makes me more and more disappointed. I may not even go to the auto show this year. This stuff used to be a huge deal for me, but I just DON'T CARE anymore! Most blob crossovers I see on the street now, I can't even identify. I used to know everything about every new car, down to the engine options. Not anymore. Now I know how people who aren't at all interested in cars feel. It's a weird feeling.

You guys know me; I bleed Ford blue. To a fault! The wife asked me the other day if when it comes time for future car purchases, if we'd be considering other brands. Dark times, these are dark times.

[gr79]

Ford offers 7 SUV or Crossovers, 3 cars, 5 trucks or vans, 5 electrics, 8 commercial, 7 performance, 2 future.
https://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/?g...r-all-vehicles.
Dial trans selector or console shift. Larger SD trucks have column shifts.

2020 Fusion looks decent for a car. Engines with DAMB mechanical buckets? No hyd lifters?
Mustang with Eco 2.3 HPP looks interesting. Impressive 300+ hp, 13-14 sec 1/4 mile with fuel mileage in the 20's.
New Ranger XL has standard engine that starts and stops, 3/4 ton is lowest spec. Weighs 1000# more than my XLT.
Mustang weighs 1300# more than my Cobra. 20 different wheel combos.