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  1. #1
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    Default Winter Front suspension upgrades...

    So I'm converting my 85 to 11" front brakes this winter. Pretty much stock, except subframe connectors and a 3.55 8.8 with 4 cylinder rear springs to duplicate the 93 Cobra setup with lower MM bars. Already have the 1 1/8" front sway bar. Car has about 63K miles on it.

    Since I'm going to have it apart, been trying to figure out what all I should do. I'll need new struts, I've seen people recommending the Blue Tokiyo's. For the calipers, I was going to use the caliper sleeves, Hawk pads and stainless hoses. I was going to the 93 tie rods to save some bump steer. I've not been able to find front lowering springs separately, so I'll probably end up cutting the stock fronts, as the front of the car is about 3/8" to 1/2" higher than the rear. On the A-arms I'll probably put poly bushings in the factory arms. I've seen the replacement lower arms, but then I'd still have to swap out the bushings. The last thing is the caster/camber plates. It'd be easier to install these now, if needed, but really not sure if the extra $200 would benefit.

    Any opinions or recommendations on what I'm missing or anything else I should be looking at? I've searched and learned most of this from the site, so hoping that this will keep the front planted, since the rear suspension was improved last winter.

    Thanks!

    Last edited by wraithracing; 11-13-2019 at 11:21 AM. Reason: Text color

  2. #2
    FEP Power Member mcb82gt's Avatar
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    That sounds like a solid plan to me. I would prefer rubber bushings, but I like a soft ride. What are your plans for the car? I suspect you could get by without the CC plates. I have Tokico blues and like them.
    Mike

    Now stang-less.

    88 Cougar 5.0

  3. #3
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    It sounds like you are building a setup similar to my plans for my 82 RS. Nice fun driver with a slight improvement in handling and looks.

    The Tokico Blues are a nice setup that is only slightly stiffer than OEM. So slight improvement while retaining nearly the same ride quality. The Eibach Pro Kit for the Fox Mustang will give you a slightly lowered ride height with a very nice ride quality. I would recommend that over cutting your stock springs if your budget allows. I would still run the full Eibach setup over cut fronts and 4 cyl rear springs, but again I understand budget constraints.

    I would also highly recommend a set of Maximum Motorsports full length subframe connectors as your first improvement. That alone is the my first modification to every Fox I own. I also highly recommend MM's CC Plates. Keep your eye on their weekend sales going on right now and you can save a little bit of money. They will allow you to do a full alignment on the vehicle rather than the more standard Fox of "set the toe and go" The added caster alone makes the car so much more enjoyable at freeway speeds. Again I install them on all of my Foxes because simply the work and they are the best option for the price. Good Luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the input, I've got the MM full length subframe connectors, they made a huge difference. Actually got them on weekend sale a few years ago. I've seen alot of recommendations on the Eibach's, I've been looking to buy just a front pair, as I'd also prefer that to cutting the stock springs, but have been unsuccessful. The only place I've seen just front sold is the BMR's, but they are 525 lbs, which is pretty stiff. I've not seen many people running them. I'm not wanting to go back to the understeer, that's not much fun. The softer rear springs with the smaller front sway bar has really improved the handling on the back country Ohio roads. This car is mainly a weekend cruiser, so autocrossing is out, but looking to improve what I have, since it'll be apart. I've never been unhappy with poly bushings on anything I've owned. Just figuring 30 years, the rubber is probably shot.

  5. #5
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    I don't believe Eibach sells the front springs separate as they believe the matched spring rates front and rear are the way to go. I doubt you would be unhappy with the Eibach rear springs over the 4 cyl springs. The overall ride quality is pretty decent, but just a bit better looking ride height IMHO. I have done the 93 Cobra style setup with cut coil springs. Yes it did look better, but it does stiffen up the ride a bit. Not terrible, but still stiffer.

    Nothing wrong with poly bushings in the right locations on a Fox Body. Just never install them in the upper control arms at all. Also if running the stock rear lower control arms, only poly bushings in one end or the other. There's debate as to which end. Personally I prefer the MM rear control arms. Once you have driven a Fox Body with them you will not want to use the OEM rear lowers ever again. Good Luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  6. #6
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    I did the rear suspension last winter, MM lowers, rubber bushings in the uppers, 4 cylinder springs when I swapped out to the 8.8. It was so much fun this summer. The Eibach front's would be cool if they sold them separate. I'm really not sure why there's not many running the BMR fronts, as they are pretty comparable to the Eibach's, and seem to be a better price point. All considerations for once the weather turns colder and the front end comes apart.

  7. #7

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    Eibach will not sell the springs to dealers separately. H&R will, so we will sell just the front or rears on any H&R set.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  8. #8
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    The parts collection continues....I got the MM caster plates on the weekend sale!

  9. #9
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    I've still been collecting parts, thought I'd pass on that tirerack.com is closing out some mustang suspension and brake parts. I picked up a set of Hawk pads. They have some lowering springs and strut/shock combo's too.

    Looking at my lower A-arms, I'm going to replace them as they are somewhat rusted. Trying to figure out, is everyone buying the Ford arms, then putting poly bushings in them, or buy the Dorman arms and put the low friction ball joints and poly bushings? It seems by that time, might as well pony up the bucks and go tubular. Any thoughts on this? Thanks!

  10. #10
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85WhiteGT View Post
    I've still been collecting parts, thought I'd pass on that tirerack.com is closing out some mustang suspension and brake parts. I picked up a set of Hawk pads. They have some lowering springs and strut/shock combo's too.

    Looking at my lower A-arms, I'm going to replace them as they are somewhat rusted. Trying to figure out, is everyone buying the Ford arms, then putting poly bushings in them, or buy the Dorman arms and put the low friction ball joints and poly bushings? It seems by that time, might as well pony up the bucks and go tubular. Any thoughts on this? Thanks!

    Depends on what your ultimate goals are really. The Ford OEM Fox balljoints are obsolete so unless you can find some NOS units the OEM SN95 balljoints are the best option and work just can't use the stop castle nut. The stock rubber bushings are fine for most drivers. If you want better handling, then the poly bushings aren't bad. I usually just install poly bushings and the SN95 joints in stock arms, but I don't have any rust issues thanks to either Texas or Colorado parts.

    The only aftermarket front control arms I generally run are Maximum Motorsports, but you can't use stock springs with their arms. Also make sure to get the NON-offset if using on a stock K member. I know others have used different brands, but most seem to be designed more for drag racing than street driving. Your opinion may vary. Good Luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  11. #11
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Caster/camber plates and X2 ball joints dropped the front of my 86GT 1.5” with stock springs

    some hate the longer balljoint move but it worked nicely - just like a drop spindle really.

  12. #12
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Duplicate

  13. #13
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    I appreciate the input. yeah, I meant the SN95 balljoints. for some reason, the A-Arms have rusted, to the point of sandblasting, painting plus ball joints and bushings, it seems that new ones would look much better on the car, and be more cost effective. I'll know more when I drop the springs out this weekend, but that was my initial thoughts. I saw that BMR offers a stock replacement tubular control arm, but haven't seen where many people are running them.

  14. #14
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    Here's a scary picture for anyone outside the rust belt. I knew the A-arms were crusty, but was surprised to see the driver's side spring broke. Good thing I'm tackling the front end this winter. Surprised that I never noticed any difference in the height or handling, but kind of bad for a 61K mile car, that's not seen salt.


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  15. #15
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Looking back I know the drivers side spring was broken on my 86GT for at least a decade. I did not realize at the time and just shoved a spring helper/expander in it to level it out and continued to run it daily

    Passenger rear spring was broken clean off as well

    Its that old diagonal twist these beer cans on wheels do when you apply too much torque. Stock torque levels are way too much over time for a body that’s not sporting subframe connectors too. I put a 1 7/8” twist in mine one night launching on slicks at 4500 and lighting it up with with NO2 right out of the hole. took Autokraft the better part of two days on a frame machine to relieve everything and get it to sit without being sprung then weld in subframe connectors with some arch put to them to help keep the body square. It’s worked for 300K miles but the floor is cracking straight across these days as that’s what gets stressed when you do that

    ok well ..... knock it apart, cut the rust and cracked stuff out, and back on the road it will go

    I did poly bushings in front when I rebuilt my control arms. I won’t mess with it again - it just wasn’t worth the hassle.

    Also you are in for the fight of your life getting balljoints out of crusty arms. Those two reasons combined ..... imo get stock replacement arms and press out the stock balljoints and upgrade to SN95 or X2 and call it a deal

    We used SVO spindles with SN95 balljoint adapters and SN95 balljoints in replacement arms in my 85 Saleen clone. Also a bumpsteer kit. The write up is in my clone thread. The bolt spacing on the spindle bolts was slightly different than normal foxbody but Trey got it to work without too much trouble. We needed spacers for these spindles because they are thinner at the strut mount point than 79-85 are. Same as 87-93. The 87-93 V8 bearings and rotors and brake calipers work just fine with them.

  16. #16
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    I've got the front brakes all on, and working on the tie rods. Both inner's and outers on both sides with Moog problem solvers. The aluminum rivet pin didn't fit in the hole, tried to use a small socket to knock it in, that failed. Trial fit the other side, there is no way the rivet will fit in the hole without drilling the hole bigger, wondering if anyone has a solution to that?

    Also, my car drove fine before all this, but the RH tie rod is out 2 15/16" to the jam nut, where the LH side is only 2 5/8" to the jam nut. It drove straight before all this, but wondering if I should center the steering wheel, and put the tie rods even on both sides to start out with, or keep it as it was.

    Thanks for the advice. Here's a picture, just for good measure, it's before I got the brakes back on.

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  17. #17

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    I had the same problem with the drive rivets that came with my inner tie rods. I ruined mine trying to get them in, ended up finding some pop rivets that fit in the hole and used those. Hoping that won't bite me in the future. Of course, drilling the holes to the size that fits the supplied rivets would be an acceptable solution also.

    As far as the tie rod ends being unequal, you may have the steering shaft off a spline or two. I think each spline will knock the steering wheel off center by 10-12 degrees. Ideally they should be as close to equal as possible so steering travel will be the same in both directions. Probably worthwhile to double check if this might be the case.
    Thomas

    1985 Mustang GT - Build Thread
    347 (Stock Block, Scat Crank & Rods, Probe Pistons, 11:1 CR, AFR 185's, PP Crosswind Intake, Custom-ground Comp Hyd Roller Cam, Scorpion 1.6 Roller Rockers, Holley 3310-4), T-5, 8.8 w/3.55's, MM SFC's, T/A, PHB, LCA's, Strut Tower Brace, K-Member Brace, Bilstein HD Struts/Shocks, MM/H&R Springs, SN95 5-Lug, Cobra Brakes, '04 Mach 1 Steering Rack

  18. #18

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    Center the steering rack travel, by turning the steering wheel full lock left and full lock right. Mark the steering wheel at each limit by putting a vertical piece of tape on it. Then turn the steering rack back to center. Precisely adjust the angle of the steering wheel so that the two pieces of tape are bisected by a vertical line. Now the rack is perfectly centered in its travel. The critical factor about this is that the inner tie rod pivots are now equal distance from the centerline of the car. This will help ensure that the car has symmetric bumpsteer.

    How much inner tie rod extends from the steering rack housing is totally irrelevant. Obviously if one of both of them is too long, you will have to trim it to be able to adjust the toe setting correctly. When you align the car, it is critical that the steering wheel be in this position (centered rack).

    The stock Fox steering shaft does not allow clocking at either end of it. An aftermarket steering shaft will usually allow clocking at the rack end.

    There is no reason to use rivets of set screws or anything else between the rack and the inner tie rods. Ford stopped using them on SN95 inner tie rods. Just properly tighten the nut, which requires TWO Crescent wrenches. One needs to be placed over the rack teeth to keep it from applying force to the pinion gear. The second wrench is used on the nut to tighten.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  19. #19
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    Thanks for the responses! I tightened them up and got everything put back together. I need to get my helper to get the brakes bled, so hopefully one night this week....

    As I was filling the brake reservoir, I noticed that the top of the struts are higher than the fender. I put the spacers in per the directions, but I'm going to have to reposition the spacers, or cut the top of the strut off, but at least I'm getting closer to getting it ready for springtime!

  20. #20
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    Oh, and forgot to mention, the steering wheel was centered in the travel, so not sure why the difference in the tie rods ends, so I just put it back together the way it was, with the offset side to side.

  21. #21
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    So just an update for anyone keeping track. I got it back together with the Eibach front springs. The front was a 25 1/2" and the rear was at 27 1/4", didn't like the rake, so put the 1/4" spacers in the front, that got the front to 26". It rode pretty good, the turn in was great, the rear felt a little loose, plus the rake still wasn't what I was intending. Put the stock rear springs back in, that got the rear to 26 3/4". It stiffened it up some, but still have the 1 1/8" front sway bar. I've had it out a few times, but not rear far, so too early to tell, but overall it's driving straight, has better brakes, and has a good stance.


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  22. #22
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    So far so good I’d say man

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