79 lacks Camber after Cc plates

[brian.aughe]

I just installed my Maximum Motorsports front springs and Bilsteins. I used J&M Hotparts camber plates and they are closer to maxed out than not and a quick eye ball has me with hardly any neg camber.
My question is has anyone installed the longer lower control arms to gain camber? Longer arms as in I believe the 95 and up cars. I has 95 spindles and I'm thinking that is what is not helping with camber. Later on this week I'm going to get an alignment.
As a side note what a transformation with this new setup.

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[Haystack]

I've heard of guys flipping the brackets to the wrong side of the car doing that.

[brian.aughe]

I've heard of guys flipping the brackets to the wrong side of the car doing that.

They are exactly as the directions say. I'll take some photos in the am

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[brian.aughe]

Well it was bothering me so I took some pictures now. Ok here is the direction picture and then the installed plates

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[brian.aughe]

From thier site. Just as I have them

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[brian.aughe]

I went back to the car and moved my caster forward a bit and maxed out the camber. On my hand held guage I'm at zero on one side and -.5 on the other. I'll see how it drives and go from there.

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[4-barrel Mike]

Looks to me, if those were Maximum Motorsports plates, that they would be flipped side for side https://www.maximummotorsports.com/a...MMCC7989r6.pdf

Don't know about J&M

Mike

[brian.aughe]

Looks to me, if those were Maximum Motorsports plates, that they would be flipped side for side https://www.maximummotorsports.com/a...MMCC7989r6.pdf

Don't know about J&M

Mike

This is how the struts sit after the last adjustment. I dont see how I could get any more out of the setup. The strut is just about right up against the tower.

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[brian.aughe]

Google is your friend. I did some digging and came up with some writings on the subject by Maximum motorsports. The 94-95 spindles will add positive camber when swapped into the early foxes. CC plates will get you back to street settings which is just about where I'm at. They also listed a ton of stuff that can be done to gain camber.

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[erratic50]

From experience -- believe it or not -- you can get more than -8 camber with stock lower control arms, SN95 spindles, and even with the longer X2 balljoints fighting you. No long control arms needed.

My car stumped a couple alignment shops. I reached my witts end with my car too. Then a good friend (and former class champion in his class at SCCA) came over and helped me.

Don't get discouraged. Dig in, we'll help you focus.

Many guys with SN95 spindles talk about slotting the top strut mount bolt hole or they mention using a camber bolt or maybe even two. Those things help and of course can help you get all the negative camber you want and also the positive caster you desire.

BTW -- being able to control movement of the spindle in the strut at the top and bottom bolt does let you play with where side-to-side the circular pattern appears on the tire when you turn lock to lock too.

What I did with my car is centered the plates in the opening so I could max out positive caster. I did use my camber gauge on the front of the strut in attempts to get a good idea of how much caster I had in effort to get it even on each side. Seems like it did OK for what its worth.

Next I shoved the plates out (positive camber) as much as they would move while keeping my caster locked in. It wasnt much with the strut maxed out on caster of course.

After that I loosened up the strut bolts at the spindle and I used a spring compressor to take load off the strut bolts at the spindle.

Next I used a bar to force as much negative camber into the balljoint and spindle as I could get. One of us forced it in, the other tightened up the bolts. The goal was to eliminate the stacked tolerances and get a predisposition to negative camber even with the struts out where they grant more caster.

I went to camber bolts next mainly because it made it easy to dial in the camber I wanted on each side without giving up any caster or moving the strut inward.

Then it was back on with tires and take the compressor off and see where we were at. A bunch of back and forth for around 2 hours happened from there.

I am at -2 and can get around -3 more without moving the struts just by messing with a camber bolt on each side.

The beauty of having struts as far out as I have mine is it picks up a bunch of tire clearance. My 17x8 rims with 245/45/17's only rub under the most extreme of conditions and I'm still running the 2.5 turn 86 rack without any limiter changes. In theory I should have needed to remove 1/4 turn or more straight away -- the newer K members are wider.

I will say -- lots of negative camber isn't what its cracked up to be on the street. Yes it handles better at the limit. Tons better. The problem is you get some camber thrust on uneven surfaces so you find you have to drive it. You can't just relax and let it roll over the bumps and ruts like you probably could with a more neutral camber. It makes running it through the gears hard a bit less fun.

I selected a setting between the street and race specs on my plates. The directions said to set -1.75 camber, as much positive caster as possible even both sides, and 1/8" toe in (narrower towards the front) for a street car with factory outer tierod ends. Many other plates say -1.25 to -1.5 for what its worth. They said -2.25 camber and 0 toe for a race car.

I run MM SN95 spindle on fox bumpsteer kit. The kit eliminates so much of the movement in the outers so I went with 0 toe looking to get better turn-in. We got to -2 and even on both sides so we went with it.

Given I don't drive it on a road course ever I'll probably back off on negative camber someday and get rid of that camber based movement.

[brian.aughe]

From experience -- believe it or not -- you can get more than -8 camber with stock lower control arms, SN95 spindles, and even with the longer X2 balljoints fighting you. No long control arms needed.

My car stumped a couple alignment shops. I reached my witts end with my car too. Then a good friend (and former class champion in his class at SCCA) came over and helped me.

Don't get discouraged. Dig in, we'll help you focus.

Many guys with SN95 spindles talk about slotting the top strut mount bolt hole or they mention using a camber bolt or maybe even two. Those things help and of course can help you get all the negative camber you want and also the positive caster you desire.

BTW -- being able to control movement of the spindle in the strut at the top and bottom bolt does let you play with where side-to-side the circular pattern appears on the tire when you turn lock to lock too.

What I did with my car is centered the plates in the opening so I could max out positive caster. I did use my camber gauge on the front of the strut in attempts to get a good idea of how much caster I had in effort to get it even on each side. Seems like it did OK for what its worth.

Next I shoved the plates out (positive camber) as much as they would move while keeping my caster locked in. It wasnt much with the strut maxed out on caster of course.

After that I loosened up the strut bolts at the spindle and I used a spring compressor to take load off the strut bolts at the spindle.

Next I used a bar to force as much negative camber into the balljoint and spindle as I could get. One of us forced it in, the other tightened up the bolts. The goal was to eliminate the stacked tolerances and get a predisposition to negative camber even with the struts out where they grant more caster.

I went to camber bolts next mainly because it made it easy to dial in the camber I wanted on each side without giving up any caster or moving the strut inward.

Then it was back on with tires and take the compressor off and see where we were at. A bunch of back and forth for around 2 hours happened from there.

I am at -2 and can get around -3 more without moving the struts just by messing with a camber bolt on each side.

The beauty of having struts as far out as I have mine is it picks up a bunch of tire clearance. My 17x8 rims with 245/45/17's only rub under the most extreme of conditions and I'm still running the 2.5 turn 86 rack without any limiter changes. In theory I should have needed to remove 1/4 turn or more straight away -- the newer K members are wider.

I will say -- lots of negative camber isn't what its cracked up to be on the street. Yes it handles better at the limit. Tons better. The problem is you get some camber thrust on uneven surfaces so you find you have to drive it. You can't just relax and let it roll over the bumps and ruts like you probably could with a more neutral camber. It makes running it through the gears hard a bit less fun.

I selected a setting between the street and race specs on my plates. The directions said to set -1.75 camber, as much positive caster as possible even both sides, and 1/8" toe in (narrower towards the front) for a street car with factory outer tierod ends. Many other plates say -1.25 to -1.5 for what its worth. They said -2.25 camber and 0 toe for a race car.

I run MM SN95 spindle on fox bumpsteer kit. The kit eliminates so much of the movement in the outers so I went with 0 toe looking to get better turn-in. We got to -2 and even on both sides so we went with it.

Given I don't drive it on a road course ever I'll probably back off on negative camber someday and get rid of that camber based movement.

Thanks for that answer. Tons of great information. I have a Griggs K member waiting to go in so that will help. Already have a bump steer kit installed.
Question. Do I want to stay with a 79-93 length arm as the K member will probably widen my arms as I believe the 79 k members are the narrowest of the bunch?

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[Jack Hidley]

The lower hole in the ear of the Bilstein struts is enlarged to allow some camber adjustment at this joint. When tightening the strut to spindle bolts, you must hold the joint so that it is in the maximum negative camber position. I'm 95% certain that this is why your car doesn't have much negative camber.

[brian.aughe]

The lower hole in the ear of the Bilstein struts is enlarged to allow some camber adjustment at this joint. When tightening the strut to spindle bolts, you must hold the joint so that it is in the maximum negative camber position. I'm 95% certain that this is why your car doesn't have much negative camber.

You are probably right. Without a wrench that fits the strut bolt nut I was tightening the bottom bolt and then setting the caliper and then the top bolt on the strut. No room for a socket with the brake on its bracket for the bottom bolt. I'll break it free again and set it the right way. Thanks for that.

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[854vragtop]

I went to camber bolts next mainly because it made it easy to dial in the camber I wanted on each side without giving up any caster or moving the strut inward.

Then it was back on with tires and take the compressor off and see where we were at. A bunch of back and forth for around 2 hours happened from there.

I am at -2 and can get around -3 more without moving the struts just by messing with a camber bolt on each side.

I just put a set of MM CC plates on my '85. I already had one camber bolt in the lower strut hole on the LH side from years ago and needed to install the remaining camber bolt on the RH side. In addition to CC plates, I also just installed '94/'95 spindles for my Cobra brake upgrade. The camber bolts have a cam machined into the bolt shank which pivots the spindle inboard and outboard when you adjust it. I'm able to center struts in the CC plates with the tires vertical (0 camber). I still need to get the front end aligned, but I wanted to give the alignment tech room to adjust.

[Basin Motorsports]

To answer your original question of adding 94-04 LCA for extra camber, I have done that on mine. I have 99-04 LCA, but also needed clearance to fit a 315 tire on the front. I have roughly -3 on camber both sides and roughly 6 degrees of caster.

[brian.aughe]

To answer your original question of adding 94-04 LCA for extra camber, I have done that on mine. I have 99-04 LCA, but also needed clearance to fit a 315 tire on the front. I have roughly -3 on camber both sides and roughly 6 degrees of caster.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

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[brian.aughe]

The lower hole in the ear of the Bilstein struts is enlarged to allow some camber adjustment at this joint. When tightening the strut to spindle bolts, you must hold the joint so that it is in the maximum negative camber position. I'm 95% certain that this is why your car doesn't have much negative camber.

Thank you for that Jack. I maxed out in the slot of the Bilstein and I'm right about-1 on my guage. Thanks again. Simple fix.

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[4eyedblind]

A k member out of an 87+ car will get you about an inch wider track per side...and more camber adjustment, obviously. You'll need to widen the rack though, with later tie rod ends or just get a later Gt rack total.

[brian.aughe]

A k member out of an 87+ car will get you about an inch wider track per side...and more camber adjustment, obviously. You'll need to widen the rack though, with later tie rod ends or just get a later Gt rack total.

My Griggs K member should take care of my camber woes. My steering arch is leaking so that needs to go. I have to do some research on which one will swap in. I know the rage is to do the Cobra rack but any 95+ I assume will work.

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[erratic50]

The 87+ and aftermarket K members are not that much wider. Just a little bit.

Longer control arms and wider K members can eventually cause tire clearance problems on the fender and too much negative camber. There’s a range of what’s ideal and what’s marginal etc

where your story’s end up in the towers makes a huge difference on tire clearance in the end.

good luck — post up your results and let us know how we can help

[Jack Hidley]

1987-93 V8 k-members are 0.9" total trackwidth more than a 1979-93 k-member.

[erratic50]

So you could say 0.45 per side.

if you SN95 spindle swap a fox you pick up another 0.125” (1/8”) per side

so 0.575 per side total.

1.15 more overall if using 87-93 K plus SN95 spindles

might make it easier to run a 9” rim in front without being as aggressive on rack limiters

[brian.aughe]

I am running 18x9 up front now.
So once I install my Griggs k member, get a set of BMR lower arms and whatever rack will fit I should be good.
I have a long break from work in the month of December so I'll knock out that install.

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[4eyedblind]

Looked like more than a .45" per side when I measured directly the two ks, side by side. V6, 86 vs 88 GT.....