Help! New motor won't fire up...

[Caprirs302]

Please help!

I just installed a new motor in my 83 gt. I made sure, and have been assured that it is a 302 h.o. like the one it replaced. After carefully assembling everything and dropping it in the car, I cannot get it to fire. I have found Tec on the compression stroke multiple times, checked the firing order, but all I get is spits and sputters.

I even tried a standard 302 firing order in case I was sent the wrong motor (happened in the past) but no go.

Any ideas?

Also, if for some reason it is a standard 302, would I need a new ignition module?

Help!

[99GTMichael]

Right off the bat, has this vehicle run in the past? Fuel system and ignition system have operated properly previously on the old engine? It sounds to me like a timing issue, so that is where I'll start. Sounds like you know how to properly set the distributor, but I'll run over my procedure in case it's helpful. But, it is really important to know that the fuel and ignition have worked previously.

What carburetor is on the engine? Can you stroke the throttle and verify a good accelerator pump shot? Can you remove the sight plugs and verify fuel level is acceptable in the bowls?

Knowing the cranking vacuum would be helpful to determine if it is in time properly.

First, I would have a helper watch through the #1 spark plug hole to verify that TDC on the balancer corresponds with the piston at TDC. Then, either have said helper hold their finger over the spark plug hole to feel for the compression stroke, or put a small balloon on the end of a compression or cylinder leakage tester adapter and rotate the engine while watching for the balloon to inflate.

Once you've 100% set the engine to TDC and 0* on the balancer, install the distributor with the rotor pointed toward #1 spark plug wire on the cap. The way I do this is to get the distributor down into the hole on the block, and then play around with getting the drive gear to mesh nicely with the cam gear so that the rotor is close to #1 and so that I will have plenty of room to advance if necessary (not going to run into the thermostat housing). I don't worry about getting the oil pump driveshaft installed right away because I find that it is easier to set the cam gear to the drive gear, and then rotate the engine by hand while pressing down on the distributor and wiggling it back and forth slightly and it will eventually lock into the oil pump driveshaft. Because you're meshed with the cam gear, everything is rotating together properly. Ditch the vacuum advance mechanism for now, we only care about initial base timing.

Firing order for non-HO is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
Firing order for HO & 351 is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Fords are 1-4 on the passenger side (#1 closest to radiator #4 closest to firewall) and 5-8 on the driver side (#5 closest to radiator #8 closest to firewall)
I haven't worked on Chevrolet engines before, but I do know that there is a difference in the way the timing is set up. Something along the lines of the Chevrolet cam or crank keyway pointing to 2 o'clock? Just something to consider if you assembled it yourself and maybe have a different background in engine building.

If I was working on this, I would be starting it from the engine bay by jumping the starter solenoid with the ignition on. Being that this is an '83, I'm going to assume that it is a flat-tappet camshaft. Once you get it lit off, you of course will want to run it at varying RPM above 2,000 RPM while keeping a close eye on oil pressure and water temperature. I would say to advance the timing to the low-mid 20's range for this and crank the curb idle screw up.

Ignition system testing on an '83 is easy with the help of a Ford Shop Manual. There is a great diagnostic path outlined in it that is easily accomplished with backprobes and a multimeter. You might also check to make sure you have fuel pressure, I have had very bad experiences with several vehicles with mechanical fuel pumps being bad out of the box.

Not trying to be condescending with any of my advice, just trying to cover all bases. If everything is all set in place properly and all supporting components are working, then it should pretty much light right off. It might be time to start looking at compression & leakage tests if you continue to fight with it.

Good luck,
Mike

[Caprirs302]

Thanks Mike, from another Mike!

All of the components were working on the original motor. I bought a long block so it was basically just me bolting junk on. The old motor was running, but had two blown cylinders and wouldn't go over 3000 rpm. Should have been a simple swap.

Only snag I can think of is that the distributor wiring harness from the car side ( new distributor so no problems there) was useless because the wires broke off so I had to wire them up manually. Really should not be a problem, it was only 3 wires.

Now, when I undid my tape job on the wire harness there were 3 mystery wires I could not identify which were broke off and did not go anywhere. I am assuming they went to the a.c. solenoid and possibly some emissions carp that I removed when I got the car.

I have been told that the duraspark ignition should work for the motor no matter what (302 or 302 ho) but I call bs because when I replaced the ignition I had to go through 3 boxes, two of which I am assuming were for a standard 302 and did not work (they were small and thin, from autozone and oreillys) I finally got one that worked from advance, it was bigger and boxer like the stock one i had.

[Caprirs302]

[Caprirs302]

In this picture you can see the wires and box. In the first you can see my distributor job.

Tdc on compression

[Caprirs302]

Distributor was put in with motor at tdc, ended up here after multiple attempts at starting

[Broncojunkie]

Distributor spins counterclockwise. I'm sure you checked it, but I've done it before, installing plug wires in a hurry without thinking lol

[Caprirs302]

Well, made progress, sorta. I went and bought a new ignition module. Redid everything. It ran for about a minute. Sounded good. Had just enough time to put my timing light on it, it was retarded, about 30 degrees. Could not turn the distributor far enough to get it past zero.

Took distributor out, moved it a tooth, now it won't start.

Here is the thing, when I try it with starting fluid, I get a second of it running. Then nothing. I have fuel in my filter so the pump is working, but there is no fuel in the Windows of my carb bowls. Could a flaming backfire have done any internal carb damage?

[KevinVarnes]

I would pull the bowls and check that the needle and seat are allowing fuel in. They could be stuck. Since it runs on starting fluid it sounds like you aren't getting fuel in.

A backfire could rupture the power valve, but I've backfired my fair share of Holleys and I've never actually ruptured one. If it were it would be letting in a lot of fuel while running.

[Caprirs302]

Does anybody know where I should have the rotor pointing when I install it? I saw another post where it was straight back, and others at about 2 o'clock. On either of those I can't turn it enough to time it right.

[Broncojunkie]

It shouldn't really matter what direction it's pointing as long as it's pointing toward your #1 plug wire at tdc (compression stroke). You probably could have fixed your distributor turning issue without removing it. Just relocate the plug wires and then adjust the distributor rotation accordingly. Either way works, in most instances.

[dynodon64]

When I put a distributor in, I set the crankshaft balancer to 14 degree BTC at the timing pointer for #1cylinder. Then I put the distributor in so it lines up with #1 plug wire on the cap. It will start every time and only be off a degree or two.

[graphicdesigner80]

One thing to consider is that if you reused your original crankshaft dampener (harmonic balancer), you could be dealing with one that has slipped and will not time correctly with a timing light. The dampener is mounted in rubber and over time can slip, thus all your timing marks will be off.

I'd try putting the distributor back to #1 on compression stroke and using a vacuum gauge to get the timing set. Be sure to plug into a manifold vacuum source and not a ported point on the carburetor. Advance the distributor until you reach peak # on the vacuum gauge and it drops off. Remember that you'll have to adjust idle speed down while you're doing this to get an accurate reading on the vac gauge. Retard back to the highest reading and then back off another pound and lock it down. I've had really good luck doing this on older engines that had a slipped dampener.

Good luck.