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  1. #26

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    No.

    To make a long story short. In general when swapping rear disc brakes on these cars, you need to use the rotor, caliper, caliper hanger, axle bracket and axle all together. If you try to swap any of these parts for one off of a different application, it will not fit together. You would need all of the above parts from a 1994-98 GT/V6, plus the brake hoses and hard lines from the housing, the axle is a 1994-95 model. 1996-98 hoses will not work on your car. There are no brake lines for those years.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  2. #27
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Str8sixfan View Post
    So the follow up (potentially stupid) question would be...are the 94-98 V6 car rears, do they have the same bracket mounts for the calipers? Because I was probably going to just buy new house brand calipers anyway.
    The GT and V6 SN95 cars use the same front and rear calipers, brackets, rotors. The Cobra pieces are unique up front. The rear uses the same calipers, but different brackets and rotors.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  3. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    The GT and V6 SN95 cars use the same front and rear calipers, brackets, rotors. The Cobra pieces are unique up front. The rear uses the same calipers, but different brackets and rotors.
    OK, let me re-ask...I should have been more clear. Do the V6 SN95 cars have the same rear brackets as a 91 Lincoln Mark VII rear-end?

  4. #29

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    No. All parts of the Mark VII rear disc brakes and axles are unique to that car and the SVO Mustang.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  5. #30

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    Thanks Jack. That's what I assumed the answer was, but figured I'd clear it up to be sure.

  6. #31

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    It's about time to finally pony up and tackle this portion of the job. Curious what happens if I don't upgrade the size of the brake line running to the rear of the car? It is smaller diameter (at least outside) than the metal brake lines on the axle housing itself? I mean eventually the lines will get pressurized, but what say you?

  7. #32
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Str8sixfan View Post
    It's about time to finally pony up and tackle this portion of the job. Curious what happens if I don't upgrade the size of the brake line running to the rear of the car? It is smaller diameter (at least outside) than the metal brake lines on the axle housing itself? I mean eventually the lines will get pressurized, but what say you?
    No need to change the size of the line going to the rear axle. The stock line will work just fine. Good luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  8. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    No need to change the size of the line going to the rear axle. The stock line will work just fine. Good luck!
    Awesome! Thank you so much. Do you mind me asking you the "why" that is? Looks like the stock line is less than 3/16" on the way back...trust me this is a huge relief, but I kind of would like to know the science if I could. I mean I understand basic fluid principals like a certain psi from the M/C would be higher going through a smaller line and eventually all lines will be pressurized, but is that all there is to it?

    And then lastly now I'm left with trying to understand in my scenario if I NEED to upgrade to like a 93 Cobra M/C to support rear discs?

  9. #34
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    A larger bore master cyl is all you need. I suspect a 1” bore which is why I suggested the M1858.

    93 cobra is setup for metric brake linesZ

    the ones we’ve discussed are SAE on the brake lines like the brake lines on your car.

    Any master cyl that bolts up to your booster is an option. Bore size impacts fluid delivered per inch of pedal travel and that combined with caliper bore size yields pedal effort as a result.

  10. #35

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    Don't think about an automotive brake system like the hydraulic system on a piece of construction equipment for instance. The system on a backhoe has a hydraulic pump, which feeds a hose, which then goes to a hydraulic slave cylinder. The cylinder provides a large force over a large distance. To do this requires a large volume of fluid which is also at high pressure, and quite a bit of time is involved.

    An automotive brake system is backwards. The m/c piston generates a large pressure in the system and very little fluid volume. The slave cylinder in this case only moves 0.050" total. This is to get the pads in contact with the rotor. Once that is done, the fluid flow in the system is virtually zero.

    Because of this you need to analyze an automotive brake system in two situations. One while the brake pedal is dropping. Two after the brake pedal has stopped moving.

    During One a smaller diameter brake line will result in more pressure drop across it. The only affect of this is that the brake pedal will be stiffer while you are pressing it down. This is due to the added fluid flow resistance.

    Once you have gotten to stage Two, the fluid pressure everywhere in the hydraulic system is the same. If you install a larger brake line, it is more likely to burst due to the added hoop stress. To minimize weight, size, cost, etc. manufacturers always try to use the smallest diameter line that will work because of this.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  11. #36

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    Dude, thanks the both of you two! Finally this is putting some pieces together for me that now I can understand the "why" behind it all. This has been fantastic!

    I now feel like I can order parts and understand why I'm ordering what I'm ordering as opposed to some of the other instruction I've gotten. Thanks again!

  12. #37

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    OK, back to the drawing board. All the information I needed WAS in this thread (basically posts #20 and #21), but it took me longer to wrap my head around what was meant by the information of the comments with a little more context through side conversations I've had.

    So turbo coupe rear caliper pistons and discs...are they the same size as Mark VII/SVO caliper pistons and discs? I feel like I saw they were smaller diameter discs...which would mean the caliper brackets would be different. So unless I could somehow modify my caliper brackets to accept T/C calipers (assuming they have smaller than a 54mm piston) isn't an option, is it?

  13. #38

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    SVO/Lincoln rear discs, calipers and brackets can only be used with each other.

    TC rear discs, calipers and brackets can only be used with each other. They are smaller than the SVO/Lincoln parts.

    SVO/Lincoln rear brakes should only be used with SVO/Lincoln front brakes. If you swap the front or rear for something else, the brake balance won't be correct.

    If you purchase a newish copy of 5.0 Technical Reference Guide (Kirschamnn) it has all of the correct brake dimensions in it.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  14. #39

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    Should be noted these are LATE Mark VII rear brakes Grant has. Not the ones that were shared with the SVO.

    Does the same apply to them? They look really similar to SN95 to me.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by ZephyrEFI; 08-27-2019 at 10:35 PM.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  15. #40

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    Mark VII/SVO brakes are 73mm front calipers and 54mm rear calipers used on 1984-90 Mark VII and all SVO applications.

    Later model Mark VII brakes are used on the 1991-92 Mark VII. These are 10.53" 5-lug vented rotors, same as 1993 Mustang Cobra R. The 1991-92 Mark VII uses the 45mm Varga caliper with this rotor. This rotor is slightly larger OD than the TC rotor (10.53" versus 10.07") so the caliper bracket for this application is 100% unique. This is the largest diameter rotor that will fit in this caliper.

    "The" SN95 rear caliper is a 38mm Varga. It looks just like the 45mm version, but they take different pads and require different brackets obviously.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  16. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
    Mark VII/SVO brakes are 73mm front calipers and 54mm rear calipers used on 1984-90 Mark VII and all SVO applications.

    Later model Mark VII brakes are used on the 1991-92 Mark VII. These are 10.53" 5-lug vented rotors, same as 1993 Mustang Cobra R. The 1991-92 Mark VII uses the 45mm Varga caliper with this rotor. This rotor is slightly larger OD than the TC rotor (10.53" versus 10.07") so the caliper bracket for this application is 100% unique. This is the largest diameter rotor that will fit in this caliper.

    "The" SN95 rear caliper is a 38mm Varga. It looks just like the 45mm version, but they take different pads and require different brackets obviously.
    Thanks! That would be why they look the same! Do you think he's as limited to matching Mark VII front brakes with this style of rears?
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  17. #42

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    Brad,

    I don't remember what front calipers were used on the 1991-92 Mark VII, but I doubt that it was the 73mm model.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  18. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
    Brad,

    I don't remember what front calipers were used on the 1991-92 Mark VII, but I doubt that it was the 73mm model.
    Ha! you guys just beat me to this! So I do have a 91-92 Mark VII rearend. Somewhere along the way I had just chalked it up to thinking I was being dyslexic swapping 54mm for 45mm. I mean I've known for sure I've had 45mm calipers for some time, but as soon as I knew that again I thought I was just reading backwards or someone misentered 54. I double checked with my (no pun intended) caliper tonight and verified 45mm. I was tipped off by a local buddy who did a Mark VII rear swap on his car (he swapped axle shafts, flipped brackets etc) and we realized we had different rear parking brake mechanisms. So I did some digging tonight on other Mark VII forums (Ironically Jack you replied in that thread over at Mustang corral in 2010), and yes as you guys state 91-92 use 45mm rear pistons. Someone else in that thread basically compared them to 93 Cobra which was a 60mm front, 45mm rear (can someone fact check that for me?), so then I'm basically back to where I thought - 1" bore MC gets me out of this mess...
    I think...
    for now...
    I reserve the right to learn more and change my mind in a day, haha!
    Last edited by Str8sixfan; 08-28-2019 at 09:47 PM.

  19. #44

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    Confirmed via looking for 1991 Mark VII front caliper piston's on O'Reilly website, it's a 60mm front piston!

    https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b...39=Front&pos=0

  20. #45
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    It sound like you have a perfectly valid combo designed given the bore size on the rear brakes there.

    Put it together and get some nice brake hoses and put some nice fresh fluid into the system and bleed things good then dial in your brake proportioning.

    My bets are you'll have the best feeling pedal in there you've ever had and a lot of new found braking authority to match.


    Just don't forget to go to some nice tread compound when you do the 5 lug swap.


    I look forward to hearing about your results!

  21. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    It sound like you have a perfectly valid combo designed given the bore size on the rear brakes there.

    Put it together and get some nice brake hoses and put some nice fresh fluid into the system and bleed things good then dial in your brake proportioning.

    My bets are you'll have the best feeling pedal in there you've ever had and a lot of new found braking authority to match.


    Just don't forget to go to some nice tread compound when you do the 5 lug swap.


    I look forward to hearing about your results!
    Thanks for all your help along the way! I ordered the M1858 M/C on Friday. I also ordered new front brake hoses on Friday too because mine were cracked...only to forget the whole setup I bought from you had hoses on them. And those actually look in decent shape. So I may just keep the extra pair.

  22. #47
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    The hoses from my car were replace in 2004 when one of the originals blew.

    They dont really have that many miles but they are relatively old. I’d replace with new

    The calipers still worked fine when I removed them but they have around 70K miles or so
    Last edited by erratic50; 09-02-2019 at 07:06 PM.

  23. #48

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    I'm tempted to replace the whole spindle assembly to keep the integrity of the seal/packed bearings as is. However I noticed there were no splash/dust shields on the setup. Would you worry about running without splash/dust shields on the front rotors? And if it was you, how'd you knock down the rust on the rotors? Just lightly hit with a scotch brite wheel or something?

  24. #49

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    Alright, I got to the Master Cylinder finally tonight and realize I ran into a little bit of an unknown -

    I removed the booster from the car so I could study the "push rod" from the brake pedal at greater detail. Well the M1858 rod is straight, whereas the stock rod has a little bit of a curve shape to the eyelet. So the question is, do I HAVE to swap out for the new thicker "push rod" or will the stocker suffice?

  25. #50

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    The vacuum booster has a pushrod that goes through it. The m/c does not have a pushrod, so I don't understand what you are referring to by "Well the M1858 rod is straight, whereas the stock rod has a little bit of a curve shape to the eyelet."

    Photos would help massively.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

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