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  1. #1

    Default AFR heads plus all the extras needed Please check out my list here

    Been a long time coming but Iím finally ordering my head and intake swap from LMR. Itís going on my 85gt mostly stock 5L.
    Hoping some on your experienced guys can give a thumbs up or down to it. Or if Iím forgetting something by all means let me know.

    Thereís been a couple fellas on here that have been extremely helpful in my quest here. Thanks for that gentlemen. Name:  0E030380-7A2A-45A4-848C-454581375BD6.jpg
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  2. #2

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    Question why are you buying emissions heads and plugging the ports? Why not the 1399? Also 1.7 rockers for more valvetrain stress? Why not more cam?
    Maybe your in cali and need to be smog legal.
    They rob powar!

  3. #3

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    The idea is to keep the stock cam and reuse the Holly Street Avenger 670 carb I have. I’m not looking for a drag car or anything. Just a fun weekend car w my family. So it needs to start and idle and be totally drivable. I’ve been told by others on here that the stock cam and 1.7s are a good way to make decent power w AFR heads without loosing drivability. Is that incorrect?

    What are the positives of running a 1.6 rocker instead?
    I’ll look o to the emissions legal vs other heads. I wasn’t aware they had one that was not prepped for emissions stuff.

    Joe E.

  4. #4
    FEP Senior Member Broncojunkie's Avatar
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    A cam matched to your setup will make more power...or the driveability will be better, or some combination of both, depending on what you tell them you want. You have a bigger selection of 1.6 rockers and you'll probably save a little money, which is good, considering a new cam will probably cost around $400. Since you'll have the engine tore down already, it wouldn't be much more work to slap a new cam in while you're at it. I run 1.7 rockers on my 88gt with b303 cam and it runs well with no valve train issues, but I do think that money would have been better spent on a good cam. You're spending some good money on engine upgrades. Might as well do it once and do it right! But if you're fine with running the stock cam and 1.7's, then you'll be fine. Just remember you're leaving some power on the table.

  5. #5
    FEP Senior Member
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    Nothing wrong with a stock cam with those parts. I have a nearly identical setup in a 85 and it’s a blast. Makes good power from idle to 5500.

    I’d throw in a new timing set while it’s all apart. If you’re pulling the motor and doing the work on an engine stand, a one piece pan gasket would be a good idea too.
    85 Saleen Mustang(s)

  6. #6
    FEP Member 86MustangGtRob's Avatar
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    I have the AFR 165 1472 in my 85 gt. The car makes great power for the street.

  7. #7

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    Happy to read some positive feedback on the combo. It is a very big chunk of cash to put down on a car worth only $4-5K lol. But I’m planning on my son getting the car when I’m too old to enjoy it so it needs to be a bulletproof driver car.

    The engine won’t be out of the car. My mechanic is doing it over the fenders. Hence no internal changes. Trying to keep on budget as well.

    I do understand I’m leaving some hp on the table w the stock cam. It may be something I change in the future at some point. But it’s just not in the cards at this time. If I ever do swap it, it’ll be a very mild u it w good road manners. So for now, I’m hoping the 1.7s will help the car along. It’ll maybe be driven 500 miles a year max and that’ll be w my son and wife along most of the time.

    Thanks for the replies and keep them coming.
    Joe E.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by BaconB8 View Post
    Iíd throw in a new timing set while itís all apart. If youíre pulling the motor and doing the work on an engine stand, a one piece pan gasket would be a good idea too.
    I agree with Bacon (who doesn't agree with Bacon anyway???). But seriously the stock cam is a good item if you are not trying to win a dyno war. After all, the stock cam is what MADE the 5.0 so legendary. All that low end torque. Replacing the timing set IS a good idea but it's a slippery slope. You have to stop somewhere. If you are doing a timing set, you pretty much have to do a water pump. And if you're doing the 1 piece pan gasket, the bearings are right there. And since you have it that far down, of course you are doing a front seal. And since it's that far apart, you may as well get a SFI dampener since the OEM one is likely very tired. And since it's that far down, there's only like motor mounts and the bell housing bolts holding the engine in. And I'm positive the motor mounts are shot so may as well replace them. And man, the freeze plugs are RIGHT THERE. Would be stupid to not change them out. May as well pull it out and do a ring and bearing job with new gaskets.

    Anyway, I will add that I would not just order replacement pushrods off the shelf. I would get a pushrod length checker tool to verify. The thickness of the head gasket, the rocker arms and if the block has ever been decked...all of that could affect pushrod length. There would be no reason to arbitrarily replace pushrods. They don't fail under normal circumstances.
    Last edited by homer302; 05-25-2019 at 06:41 PM.

  9. #9

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    Thanks for the insight. I’m finding myself at that point where I have to draw a line. Lol. I’d love to just take every part off the block and give it a go through and change out anything that looked suspicious. But money is getting tight.

    So far the suspension has been rebuilt. 87+ spindle and 5 lug swap. New arms in the rear. Ford c springs and eibach dampers.
    Wheels are TSW 18x8.5/9.5 with 245/40 and 285/35 Dunlops
    T5 tranny has been rebuilt with 87+ 10.5” flywheel and Stage 1 clutch together w MM cable kit. All linkages replaces etc fork, pivot bolt etc.
    New harmonic balancer.
    It’s going into paint next month. Glass out doors and hatch off with all small body issues fixed. Still trying to decide whether it’s all black again or graphite.
    All door seals and window seals replaced. Including sunroof.
    Factory decal for the hood and tail.
    New taillight lenses

    The engine has been rebuilt 2 times since 1993 when my dad bought it. Last time was only ~15k miles ago. But the car has been sitting for the better part of 10 years. Started occasionally and driven a few times every year to knock the dust off. Last Christmas I came w my car savings to rescue the project which I’ve been planning for a few years now. So before I’m done, I’ll have burnt through my $8k or so but hopefully have a car that is (however not flawless by any means) ready to be my young families weekend cruiser/ local car show unit. No race car. No beauty queen. But a clean, usable car that I can pass down to my son when the time comes. Fingers crossed.

    I’m just so amazed by the car tho. Every time I jump in it when back at m chIldhood home, it fired right off w a little gas thrown down the carb. The car is a fighter and definitely worth the effort.

    Joe E

  10. #10
    FEP Senior Member 854vragtop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homer302 View Post
    Anyway, I will add that I would not just order replacement pushrods off the shelf. I would get a pushrod length checker tool to verify. The thickness of the head gasket, the rocker arms and if the block has ever been decked...all of that could affect pushrod length. There would be no reason to arbitrarily replace pushrods. They don't fail under normal circumstances.
    Before ordering new pushrods, buy this pushrod length checking tool from Summit and determine the exact length that you need for your combination: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...EaAgP5EALw_wcB. I ended up using these pushrods with my GT-40P head, Comp Cams XE264HR-14, and stock GT-40P rocker arms: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-7622-16, BUT you'll most likely need a different length.

    For a daily driver, I really like the Comp Cams XE264HR-14. Great low end torque and pulls hard all the way to 6250 RPM's where I have my MSD rev limiter set. If you're planning on keeping your stock hood and dual snorkel setup, you might have clearance issues with the RPM Airgap intake. I ended up going with the Weiand 8124 Street Warrior and with a 1/2" phenolic spacer (replaced the EGR plate), the hood pad just barely rubs the top of the air cleaner. I have to rotate the lid so the decal is in the back so it won't rub through it.
    '85 Mustang convertible GT, 5 speed, 4V
    Stock bottom end, Comp Cams XE264HR-14, GT-40P heads w/ Alex's springs, Weiand 8124 Street Warrior
    8.8 Turbo Coupe rear end w/ 3.55 gears, Lincoln 73mm front calipers, SVO M/C

    '68 Mercury Cougar, w/ '88 5.0L, 4V
    My photo website:
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  11. #11

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    If your changing the heads and rockers you have to check push rod length and set it up properly.
    Sorry I would never waste my time with 1.7 rockers. Cam and done. Your buying premium heads to not go all in? Why not get e streets or whatever?
    The only advantage is not touching the timing chain cover to just do rockers.
    If you are touching the timing chain change the cam.
    I still do not get smog heads choice with plugs in the ports?
    Will you run an air pump? If no then the heads are wrong.
    Will what your doing work? Absolutely. Make sure the pushrods are correct and enjoy your ride!
    Also use the exaxt part number afr recondmends for the intake gasket no other.

    Also afr heads are set up default for roller cams(higher spring tension) note for flat tappet guys to option accordingly.

  12. #12

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    AFR 165 with stock cam and 1.7’s is a known performer. With the correct carb (670 will work good) , intake (air gap is great), and the correct header it is a proven low buck 400 flywheel HP combo with really good across the board torque numbers

    As hard as it is to believe certain classes of racing required a cam ground to stock H.O. specs. The competitive race cars in those classes routinely revved to 8000 RPM.

    What is not often understood about cam is once there is sufficient air flow established through ample lift and duration and intake port ..... which a cam on a 302 is an example of - you can drastically influence the rev range of the motor by advance and retard on the valve train events. Heck, not to mention the ignition timing

    The top of the RPM range is hugely influenced by cam timing is my point

    The timing set in my 86GT with 1/2 million miles on it is obviously well worn. The cam in that car is essentially the same as what you get with a stock H.O. cam and a 1.7. It’s very likely 3-4 degrees retarded. Perfect for rebing up. 3-4 degrees advance give about all the power in the world down low but run out of steam up top

    could you throw cam at an AFR head build like the one discussed here and get more? Probably 10% or more but 440 crank HP while giving up a bunch of low end for peak numbers which sacrifices drivability and mileage. Is it worth it? Depends upon who is writing the checks. I wouldn’t bother with a cam swap on a 302 personally because the cam that’s there is what made these cars the legend they are as mentioned above.

    You can make them sound lumpy if that’s what you are going for. Just turn the idle down a little, advance the timing a bit, and riches the idle mixture.... lumpy for days

    So .....on the rev comments.... even with a crappy stock E6 head the Typhoon EFI intake with 65MM throttle body and EGR spacer and good exhaust has no problem pegging up against the rev limiter when it’s owner isn’t taking rowing seriously enough and misses a shift. Would be a monster with AFR heads on it — it does quite well right now. The 19 lb injectors are maxed out and a bump in fuel pressure is required to support life above 5500 but it’s there and was waiting for the needed fuel and timing advance it is getting now

    i firmly believes you will greatly enjoy the combo you are building.

    Take lots of pictures and do some videos of the family with smiling faces as you drop the hammer

    Or throw on some slicks and click off some low 12 second passes. High 11’s if everything else in the combo is perfect and it’s a little lighter than factory

  13. #13

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    Yes the stock mustang 351w marine cam gives some of the best torque down low. Any aftermarket cam designed for higher rpm and torque can not compare to the low end off idle grunt.
    I own a 300 six so I built my 302 to rev and sounds like cans being thrown against a wall at idle. Also drives perfectly fine.
    1.7 rockers stress the valvetrain. Its a cheap yet expensive way to mod a 302. Buy harland sharp or scorpion 1.6 and cam er up some. People can spacer this and fuel rail and throttle body underdrive that. But a good cam head intake will make the most power.
    You can tune with intakes timing and fuel later when you get bored.

  14. #14

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    Check out AFRs website. You can’t buy 165s in pedestal mount form without the emissions provisions in the heads. I’ve looking into it and they don’t have em. So plugging the rear of the head is the only way about things here.

    Joe E.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by joelliott View Post
    Check out AFRs website. You canít buy 165s in pedestal mount form without the emissions provisions in the heads. Iíve looking into it and they donít have em. So plugging the rear of the head is the only way about things here.

    Joe E.
    Ok. I got the 7/16 stud ones. So that is the proper head he is getting for his application.

  16. #16

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    Also, AFR recommends a felpro 1011-1 gasket for the heads. But LMR has listed a Ford Performance gasket on my parts list. Does this matter or should I remove the LMR gaskets and order felpro separately?

  17. #17

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    As others have all said, don't order pushrods until you know which length the engine needs. This requires a pushrod length checker, which is really cheap.

    FelPro makes nice head gaskets, but their intake manifold gaskets are complete junk. Use either OEM Ford intake gasket or Victor Reinz. Both are graphite and are 10x the quality of the FelPro model. You can port match these gaskets to any cylinder heads.

    If you can get the AFR 165 heads designed for pedistal mount rockers, do so. The valvetrain and valve guides will last much longer than stud mount rockers. If you want to read more about this, see the link below.

    https://forums.corral.net/forums/4200190-post26.html
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  18. #18

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    Cam= a call to Ed Curtis = enough said. But since you really don't seem super educated in the department just call Ed or send him an email. Ed will make something work that'll do exactly what you want it to do and make way way more power. And on top of it I'm sure it'll sound freaking amazing! Flowtech Induction.
    1984.5 G.T.350 had since 16y/o
    95 Cobra, Crystal White

  19. #19
    FEP Senior Member
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    Another thing to consider. If you’re running your stock ‘Powered by Ford’ valve covers, you may need to remove the oil splash baffles under the oil fil/pcv holes to clear the rockers. On an 86 it’s no problem removing the baffle, but on my car, it caused oil to get sucked into the intake via the pcv. I installed a oil separator, but it seems to fill up fairly quickly. A different set of valve covers with baffles may be a better option to keep oil out of the intake.
    85 Saleen Mustang(s)

  20. #20

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    Thanks for the heads up. I have read a bit about the valve covers cuz I was also worried about clearance. But I have no issue with swapping to a new cover. I’ll give it a shot and if it’s a no go, I’ll order some fancy new ones. Lol. Any suggestions on what to look for?
    Joe E

  21. #21

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    Get something cast, not fabricated. Fabricated valve covers are 10x more likely to leak, because they won't be flat.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  22. #22

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    There are valve cover spacers available for a lot less than new covers. They are twice as likely to leak so pay attention when installing

    Ed’s reputation with cams is outstanding no question if changing cams that’s who to call.

    but why not keep it simple. it’s vastly more work and labor and cost to swap cams than it is to just swap heads. Those heads will be a huge upgrade .....

    Also when an engine only has 15K miles since the last build the parts like the cam are know good and they were an investment at the time and have gotten almost no use

    I know what I’d do. Heads, intake, rockers, and go

    A cam swap can always get done later on while fighting with intake gaskets that almost always eventually leak ... if the desired result wasn’t achieved

  23. #23

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    That’s pretty much my thoughts as well. I have to draw the line somewhere. The budget is winding down. If it becomes evident that I want more power I the future, I know the next step. And I’ll give the cam master a call. Then I can save up for that kinda mod in the future.

    Think I’ll stick the the 1.7s and talk w LMR about which valve covers could work in my situation. And hopefully they have an idea about what filter can fit on top of this combo w a AirGap and a stock hood.

    I really appreciate the info and help from all of you.
    Joe E.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    There are valve cover spacers available for a lot less than new covers. They are twice as likely to leak so pay attention when installing

    Edís reputation with cams is outstanding no question if changing cams thatís who to call.

    but why not keep it simple. itís vastly more work and labor and cost to swap cams than it is to just swap heads. Those heads will be a huge upgrade .....

    Also when an engine only has 15K miles since the last build the parts like the cam are know good and they were an investment at the time and have gotten almost no use

    I know what Iíd do. Heads, intake, rockers, and go

    A cam swap can always get done later on while fighting with intake gaskets that almost always eventually leak ... if the desired result wasnít achieved
    Personally man, I just honestly see it as you already have the engine down to the short block, doing the cam at this point really isn't a ton more work in addition while the timing cover is off replace the front crank seal and you also know that the pesky gaskets at the timing cover to block are fresh. To each their own, either way will work but if I'm pulling my engine that far down it's getting thebest cam I can put in it!
    1984.5 G.T.350 had since 16y/o
    95 Cobra, Crystal White

  25. #25
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Think this once again proves the issues we all deal with in regards to this hobby. How much time, money, sweat equity, parts, etc. to put into our Foxes and/or project vehicles. At what point is enough ENOUGH and when does it all stop.

    I agree that a custom cam is the BEST way to go. May not work with the budget, timing, plans, etc. so I completely understand. I fight the same battles and issues myself with every project of mine. I never seem to know when to stop or just honestly say that stock or the parts I have will have to do.

    This is exactly how my 2004 F250 4x4 PSD now has a completely rebuilt 2006 F350 chassis under it.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

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