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  1. #26
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini1999 View Post
    What engine is this for? Is it a 3.8 six, or a 5.0 eight?
    Its a 5.0.

  2. #27
    FEP Senior Member Tigger's Avatar
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    There are different pumps that will fit the 5.0. I bought a different one than CX-624 but I do not remember the number. I tried to look it up but I did not find it. I found it just searching for other cars with the 5.0. Keep in mind though that the V-belt pulley pumps have a different bolt pattern for the pulley. I tried to take one of my Pinto air pumps apart to use the guts in my housing only to find that I could not bolt the serpentine pulley to the front snout.
    67 Mustang Coupe
    96 Tangerine GT
    86 Saleen #179

  3. #28
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    so I found a few ebay sellers that sell "rebuilt" Mustang smog pumps. They claim to rebuild them themselves and they charge a core return charge. Price ranges from 125 to 135 with the core. Has anyone tried one of these?

    I'm in a pinch with no other option but I just hate to waste money on another crappy rebuild.

  4. #29
    FEP Senior Member Tigger's Avatar
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    Just out of curiosity, what exactly failed on your current pump?
    67 Mustang Coupe
    96 Tangerine GT
    86 Saleen #179

  5. #30
    FEP Super Member Bryan Knebworth's Avatar
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    Buy yourself an OEM pump through http://greensalescompany.com/
    Last edited by Bryan Knebworth; 07-08-2021 at 07:27 AM. Reason: sp -1

  6. #31
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Just out of curiosity, what exactly failed on your current pump?
    same thing that always goes bad on them. The internal bearings. I see the wobble, it affects the belt and its noisy.

  7. #32
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Knebworth View Post
    Buy yourself an OEM pump through http://greensalescompany.com/. There's no reason to waste your time with such inferior parts!!
    usually a Google search of a part number will produce hits pointing to Green sales. i have bought from them in the past. But this item is not to be found anywhere at this moment,

    And I just called Green Sales, they dont have one either
    Last edited by fgross2006; 07-07-2021 at 05:11 PM.

  8. #33
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    There are companies who rebuild them. I believe some GM cars use a similar design.

    You can also try smog pumps unlimited in CA.
    Last edited by KevinK; 07-07-2021 at 10:32 PM.
    Fox Body/3rd Gen MCA Gold Card Judge
    84 SVO 24K miles, 85 Mclaren Capri Vert. 84 GT Turbo Vert.
    88 Mclaren Mustang Vert 20K miles, 89 Mustang LX Sport Vert,
    03 Mach 1 7900 miles, 74 Mustang II, 69 Mustang, 67 Mustang, 14 Mustang CS/GT,
    15 F150 FTX Tuscany, 16 F250 Crewcab, 67 Tbird 47K miles

  9. #34
    FEP Senior Member Tigger's Avatar
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    I have the part numbers for the bearings. Front bearing is 6203-RS. Rear bearing is BA248Z. Inner small bearings are SCE65 but I do not know how you change those. Those are the part numbers I bought.
    67 Mustang Coupe
    96 Tangerine GT
    86 Saleen #179

  10. #35
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I have the part numbers for the bearings. Front bearing is 6203-RS. Rear bearing is BA248Z. Inner small bearings are SCE65 but I do not know how you change those. Those are the part numbers I bought.
    based on what I've seen so far it is in my best interest to keep the core and try to get these bearings and either rebuild it myself, or have someone local do it for me. Look at these pics.

    This is the back of the fresh rebuilt unit I got from ebay seller. While moving the vane manually i noticed a tiny air hole in the back that actually has a hole open and close as the pump rotates.

    Name:  new pump partial open air hole.jpg
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    Name:  new pump fully open air hole.jpg
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    Then look at the back of this failed pump. That hole doesn't have movement when rotating the pump and it looks like the metal is seized.

    Name:  failed pump seized air hole.jpg
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Size:  209.5 KB

  11. #36
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Anybody have any knowledge of the internals of this pump? Whats that port in the back for? Is that where the air enters? Is a vent for excess? Clearly the new unit has moving component behind that tiny port hole and my old unit its frozen even when I rotate the pulley. That discoloration around the hole is interesting too.

    I'm going to disassemble my old pump to see if a bench rebuild is possible or if it has to be sent out. Worst case scenario, I can put the case back together and get a full refund from Autozone. Its worth more as a return than the core charge the ebay seller offers back.
    Last edited by fgross2006; 07-12-2021 at 08:11 AM.

  12. #37
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    See this. It's typical of what is happening in the auto parts industry.

    https://youtu.be/I-9zM8Cjbwg

    The stock part at birth has a 50 thousand mile life requirement for emissions requirements and the OEM part is supposhed to last the "life of the car".

    Radiators, old fashioned contract breakers, hydraulic flat tappet lifters. Now air pumps. Any thing you do has to be better than what the aftermarket are doing now.

  13. #38

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    Frustrating for sure. Can’t be surprised since most stuff comes from asia or mexico.

    Went through this with every parts store mechanical fuel pump in my area. Every single one put out significantly more pressure than advertised. No one seems to care. No accountability. “Just run an electric one” is the common answer. Even those are suspect now days.

    Call me old fashioned, but a machine designed for a mechanical pump shouldn’t have to be modified just to get the thing to run without flooding out the carburetor. It’s not a coincidence that most mechanical parts are pressed/stamped together to prevent any attempts at rebuilding. Throw away society. Planned obsolescence.

    Can’t help but think this is all in the scheme of ‘piston bad — electric good’ to accelerate the latest trend.
    '84.5 GT vert / roller 5 liter 4v / t5
    '86 LX coupe / 331 / t5
    '86 F-150 - 5 liter / efi / aod
    '56 F-100 - 272 y-block / 3 on the tree

  14. #39
    FEP Power Member gmatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    See this. It's typical of what is happening in the auto parts industry.

    https://youtu.be/I-9zM8Cjbwg

    The stock part at birth has a 50 thousand mile life requirement for emissions requirements and the OEM part is supposhed to last the "life of the car".
    Radiators, old fashioned contract breakers, hydraulic flat tappet lifters. Now air pumps. Any thing you do has to be better than what the aftermarket are doing now.
    I've had the same issue recently with rebuilt power steering pumps. After 2 were no good right out of the box, Cardone, if it matters I went to the junkyard and got the cleanest one I could find with no rebuild tag. . Noise was the issue for me. The original one that failed had a bad seal, so it leaked, but really wasn't noisy. The 2 rebuilt ones were just too noisy to stand, but they did pump. Junkyard unit was quiet and worked fine. I did buy and use a vacuum adapter to remove the air from the P/S system per Ford's technical bulletin. This was for a Taurus(05). Pump looked same as for our cars, maybe different pressure fitting.

  15. #40
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    See this. It's typical of what is happening in the auto parts industry.

    https://youtu.be/I-9zM8Cjbwg

    The stock part at birth has a 50 thousand mile life requirement for emissions requirements and the OEM part is supposhed to last the "life of the car".

    Radiators, old fashioned contract breakers, hydraulic flat tappet lifters. Now air pumps. Any thing you do has to be better than what the aftermarket are doing now.
    So where I ended up with this mess is I installed the "rebuilt" smog pump I got from an ebay "rebuilder". There were two sellers I found advertising rebuilt smog pumps. Out of the box it seemed OK but then again, the last one I got from Autozone seemed fine when I got it.

    The seller charged a $25 core charge, but it was worth more to return to Autozone and got a $169 refund. Thats after I considered trying to have the core rebuilt locally. I removed the 3 bolts holding the case together but it seemed to be pressed together and I didnt want to wreck the case trying to pry it apart. So I took it to my local auto machine shop and they declined to have a go at it, so I returned it to Autozone.

    For now, I'm good, but who knows how long this pump will last. I feel like I should buy another to stock for future use while they are still available on ebay.

  16. #41

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    I have two boxed up and ready to ship if you want them....
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in stock dual snorkel
    GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers
    catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear.
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    Everything else stock and fully functional.

  17. #42

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    The bad part is that the pump is only really doing anything for the first 30 seconds after start. After that it's just along for the ride. So an electric one with the appropriate controls would last a lot longer.

    What the pump is actually for is getting the catalysts lit off. Most of the emissions are in the first seconds after start up before the cats are hot enough to work. Since the engine is running rich on a cold start anyways it pumps air into the heads/exhaust manifolds (depending on engine) which creates a combustible mixture which burns as it travels down the exhaust to the catalyst. However after several seconds (as short as 5 on newer engines) the cats are hot enough and that extra "air" would throw off the O2 sensors so we don't want it anymore. However we can't shut a belt driven pump off so we just dump it downstream in the exhaust. Once engines got variable valve timing and distributorless ignition they light the cats off by grossly retarding the spark (after TDC) and opening the exhaust valves very late so that combustion is still happening when the exhaust opens and this lights off the cats.

    steve

  18. #43
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Folks....This is a CARB and BAR and Federal Emission equipment replacement issue. Every AIR has to have a 50000 mile without intervention survival life. No "IFS", no "BUTS", no "MAYBE's". That's why the Clean Air Act took so long to get passed. The time between the first California 1962 PCV engines to exclusive 1969 Distrovac Boss 302s with Thermal tor style AIR pumps...the Big Four were getting Air Pumps to work reliably. It's time to out the guys who sell this ****e. No way with modern technology that ANY air pump should not survive its 500 mile break in if the belt tension is right.

  19. #44

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    Exactly.
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in stock dual snorkel
    GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers
    catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear.
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    Everything else stock and fully functional.

  20. #45
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    Folks....This is a CARB and BAR and Federal Emission equipment replacement issue. Every AIR has to have a 50000 mile without intervention survival life. No "IFS", no "BUTS", no "MAYBE's". That's why the Clean Air Act took so long to get passed. The time between the first California 1962 PCV engines to exclusive 1969 Distrovac Boss 302s with Thermal tor style AIR pumps...the Big Four were getting Air Pumps to work reliably. It's time to out the guys who sell this ****e. No way with modern technology that ANY air pump should not survive its 500 mile break in if the belt tension is right.
    Could it be that's why Cardone doesn't make the pumps for Fox bodies anymore?

    Because they cant get them right. Its a discontinued part now. An extinct dinosaur. Just like the CFI dashpots and the EGR solenoid. Important parts also no longer being made by anyone.

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