Webers and a crossram on a windsor -- some questions

[Twooni]

Hey FEP,

This is my first post. But I have been lurking for a long time. Thanks to everyone who posts so much helpful info about these cars!

I am working on a project for my Fox. I bought a Bolling crossram manifold and intend to install it with some Webers for the full ITB setup.

The reason why I am going with this setup?

- It's different! I am looking for some wow factor when I pop the hood on show night.
- the promise of amazing sound and mid-range punch!
- I love NA motors and I am not interested in a boosted car (personal pref)

A couple of questions for anyone with experience with this kind of setup --

Has anyone does this before on a Windsor motor?
Was it worth it?
Would you do it again?
Did you need to change out the mechanical fuel pump for an electric one?

[4eyedblind]

Sounds like a synchronization nightmare. I only have four TBs on my motorcycles and that can be a chore to synch. You want to do 8 in two banks, crossram? How would the linkage work?

[Walking-Tall]

How many Webers, how much Windsor, and how much camshaft? If it basically ends up mimicking an individual runner setup, you might be pulling your hair out trying to get it to behave itself to run some kind of normally/efficiently on the street if there's a grumpy enough camshaft causing all sorts of intake pulsations, overlap, reversion at idle/low-speed. Are you familiar with opening up and re-calibrating a number of Webers as per the engine/vehicle combination? Step one would be opening them all up, and making certain that all of them, however many, all contain identical calibration components (jets, feeds, bleeds, idle air bypass adjustments, transition, etc.), and are all calibrated and adjusted exactly the same, outside and inside. Multiples of them also changes how much air:fuel each needs to provide... meaning, idle and low speed function will definitely require them providing less...

Kudos for wanting something different, honest. It'll be an interesting good load of work and experimenting to get right.

- No, I haven't done this (and, what is "the full ITB setup"?)
- see above
- see above
- either mechanical or electric should work... their spec fuel pressure isn't much... I did a matched pair of Dellortos a while ago... I don't recall, but their required fuel pressure is less than the 5+psi that either of the pumps you're thinking about using put out... so some kind of bypass or bypass regulator should be used...

[Twooni]

I've been told I will need to buy a good synchronization tool

I am working with Jim Inglese to buy a linkage kit from him. He has advised me that it is important to have a very rigid linkage setup which is why he uses stainless steel parts for connecting all 4 carbs together.

[Twooni]

How many Webers, how much Windsor, and how much camshaft? If it basically ends up mimicking an individual runner setup, you might be pulling your hair out trying to get it to behave itself to run some kind of normally/efficiently on the street if there's a grumpy enough camshaft causing all sorts of intake pulsations, overlap, reversion at idle/low-speed. Are you familiar with opening up and re-calibrating a number of Webers as per the engine/vehicle combination? Step one would be opening them all up, and making certain that all of them, however many, all contain identical calibration components (jets, feeds, bleeds, idle air bypass adjustments, transition, etc.), and are all calibrated and adjusted exactly the same, outside and inside. Multiples of them also changes how much air:fuel each needs to provide... meaning, idle and low speed function will definitely require them providing less...

Kudos for wanting something different, honest. It'll be an interesting good load of work and experimenting to get right.

- No, I haven't done this (and, what is "the full ITB setup"?)
- see above
- see above
- either mechanical or electric should work... their spec fuel pressure isn't much... I did a matched pair of Dellortos a while ago... I don't recall, but their required fuel pressure is less than the 5+psi that either of the pumps you're thinking about using put out... so some kind of bypass or bypass regulator should be used...

Hey Walking-tall,

thanks for the detailed reply!

How many webers - 4 total. 45 DCOE's is what I am told I will need

How much Windsor - Right now is a pretty mild street build. Victor Jr intake, 750 holly, .600 lif cam, 10.5:1 piston, GT40 heads with some porting and polishing work, MDS ignition system, the block has been bored 0.030, has a main cap girdle skirt to hopefully prevent any block splitting as I add more power. I have never dyno'd the motor. But talking with members of the Mustang community where I live. They toss a thumb in the air at 350-400hp at the crank.

How much cam shaft - I'd had to dig out the cam card for specifics. But it's a .600 lift cam. Lumpy enough that it will load up if I let it idle for too long


The intake runners are individuals. I picked up a Bolling SBF Crossram manifold, it's a cast unit and the runners are all individual/equal length.

Thanks for the info about the fuel pump. It's good to know I don't need to buy an electric fuel pump at this time. I know the price of this setup is not cheap. But I am trying to keep the cost down as much as possible. Also good to know about the jets/venturi tubes/everything else. I . hoping my knowledge of Holly carburetors can help me ramp up on Webers to some degree. But I have been told they are a very unique unit.

[Walking-Tall]

Hey... Twooni,

It's just Mike, lol... inquiring more so about how much intake duration @ 0.050"... probably the greatest deciding factor for best calibrating something's idle and low speed manners and cruise fuel efficiency.

Now, now, I don't do/tolerate the "loading up" nonsense, the stereotype of a hot rod, what makes yer eyes water at the entrance/exit of car shows... a giant pet peeve of mine, lol. No matter how radical the engine, if a carburetor's/carburetors' idle/transition circuit/s, the idle feed restrictions and idle air bleeds, and the throttle plate settings for good transition slot exposure, and idle mixture screws are all dialed in correct for the combo, there's no "loading up"... only blue sky and puffy white clouds outta the tail pipes.

Best of luck with it, and please keep us posted about your interesting adventure!

[Mustang-junky]

I would try to run a vacuum reference line linking all the runners together, I'm thinking a pipe thread brass nipple somewhere out of sight. Might make tuning the carbs easier. Having said that I've never messed with Webers before.

Subscribing for pictures.

Jess

[Walking-Tall]

A brief online look around for an example of a Bolling IR intake manifold for side-draft (DCOE) carburetors for SBF, revealed one for 260/289/302. Are we talking about a 351 Windsor or a 302 based engine? What size "chokes" (venturi diameter) will get installed, 32mm, 36mm?

[Walking-Tall]

A peak at (sorta... these are "down-draft"... yours, "side-draft") what you're in for digging into! (pics - twin Dellorto 40mm DRLA's that I mentioned having done earlier...)












And a sampling of what's involved, the things required to be measured/checked/changed/adjusted to successfully base-line setup and equalize multiple carburetors:



... so whoever "synchronized" these high-dollar puppies last, wasn't even almost close to an equal physical baseline of them... and I was told that the hopped up big engine Beetle, built by a race shop in California, would go like hell. No doubt.... but coupled with, just basically, float/fuel levels too high and mixture screws all over the place, the problem areas most definitely would have been idle and transition and low speed acceleration function.