timing issue

[Magnetic82]

Hello all:

Junk update. With good weather I'm at it again getting the thing cleaned up and ready for reassembly after another overheating episode last year. Discovered I need to replace the timing chain and since the timing cover is off, it should be easy. But nothing with this car is easy. I need to rotate the engine to line up the timing dots on the gears. With the engine still in the car, how does one do that? Adjustable wrenches just seem to score the front of the crank and not move it. Strap wrench? Voodoo? I'll try almost anything at this point. I don't want to damage the thing. And of course the battery is dead so no luck there. That's what the shop manual says to do.
Do I even need to line up the dots just to swap the chain? Looks like the parts only go on one way.

I'm placing bets on how quickly it overheats if I ever get it back together. Two years and counting.

M

[Magnetic82]

And I'd rather not put the crank bolt back in. I have to borrow tools from work to remove it and that would put me even more behind. Like three or four days. I'd like to at least reassemble the timing cover before it rains again. Yes. Driveway workshop.

[at_the_junkyard]

You can put the crank bolt in without the balancer attached and tighten it up against the crank snout to turn the engine. The normal direction of engine rotation clockwise wants to tighten the bolt. This should allow you to get your new gears on and lined up etc. It will turn easier with no spark plugs...and the car in neutral of course haha. To release the bolt and remove it again it should break loose with a sharp tap on the ratchet the other way etc.

That's the way I do it anyway.

Also be sure when you are done that the distributor and rotor are set properly to fire the engine if its been removed.

[Jack Hidley]

Put one rear tire down on the ground so it is loaded. Put the car if 5th gear. Grab the rear tire which is in the air with both hands. Rotate the tire. The engine will turn. Do this until the dots are aligned, then remove the chain and sprockets. If you have a traction lock differential, this may require up to 150lbs-ft of torque to get the rear tire to start turning. I would also pull all of the saprk plugs out so that you aren't fighting the engines compression.

[mudgepondexpress]

Take the spark plugs out. Grip the snout with a pair of channel locks, using the key in the keyway for leverage, and turn the engine. With the plugs out it should turn pretty easy.

Another, easier option: put two pulley bolts in the balancer (leave some bolt out), slip the balancer back on lightly but engaged, use a long screwdriver or tire iron as leverage on the exposed bolts to rotate the crank. Again, remove the plugs. You can also use long bolts from the hardware store.

Kenny

[richpet]

I have done the tire turn method also with good results. Other than walking back and forth if you're alone...

[Magnetic82]

As it seemed I didn't have much of a choice I put the crank bolt back in to move the engine. Then used the electric impact to remove the bolt. And then with some good weather, hey let's swap out the timing chain. I purchased an original Ford part- Hooray! Except it doesn't fit. WAY too long. Part number E0AZ-6268-A. I know this shows up as the correct timing chain but it is clearly longer than the one I took off that has some dings in it. So I put the old hardware back on loose and the timing cover to keep it all somewhat dry and safe.
Any ideas? Don't ask for picks- I'm not taking the old stuff off just to photograph them. Trust me- the new chain is simply too long.
Guess I need to buy maybe comp cams or something. I just need the chain.
Why is it so difficult to fix this car? Oh yeah- JUNK.

[richpet]

Is it possible it was boxed incorrectly?

[Walking-Tall]

I have no clue what you're working with, so apologies if this is a moot point and you know you're working with OE stuff still on the car... but difficulties can pop up by assuming that in 30-some years the timing set hasn't been replaced. There's too many differences with some timing sets, like different chain pin diameters and probably gear diameter differences to go along with the differences, so unless you know what timing set is on the car, it's probably impossible to just replace the chain... and new timing set chain and gears aren't too awful expensive...

[Magnetic82]

When the engine was rebuilt in 2000, it had a new FORD timing set put on it. That is what is on there now and in need of replacement. It actually says FORD on it and the gears. It did not stretch or shrink. The 'new' Ford timing chain is about three inches too long. Clearly not the correct chain. My car is factory and unmodified. I doubt the crank and cam are indifferent positions. Doesn't seem possible. So I'd say someone sent me the wrong part even if it is labeled correctly, which I doubt also. Looks like Comp Cams will get some business this week.

[Magnetic82]

By the way. The chain on the car has 29 links whereas the new one has thirty-three. They sent me the wrong part.

[78futura]

Get a double roller set chain and gears. Never just do a chain. Why? Cause it is cheap to replace and it is good insurance. Ya never know what chain your gears ran before. Why chance it .

[mmb617]

I've never heard of replacing just a timing chain. I thought the chain and gears were always sold as a set, as I was under the impression that they wear into each other.

[78futura]

I've never heard of replacing just a timing chain. I thought the chain and gears were always sold as a set, as I was under the impression that they wear into each other.

Yup. Super cheap too.

[78futura]

Hope you get the fuel pump pin figured out for the mechanical fuel pump ecentric. Like torque convertors etc. Much ford parts is voodoo to parts sellers. They know bowtie thats it. Ford your screwed.

[Walking-Tall]

Hope you get the fuel pump pin figured out for the mechanical fuel pump ecentric. Like torque convertors etc. Much ford parts is voodoo to parts sellers. They know bowtie thats it. Ford your screwed.

One piece fuel pump eccentric = long pin that also captures the eccentric.
Two-piece eccentric = short pin , because a small tab on the rear of the inner eccentric piece goes into the pin hole in the cam gear.

[Magnetic82]

Somehow managed to get the car back together. No fuel pump eccentric- fuel injection. Nice to get the correct parts.
Now the issue is cooling system sealing. So I borrowed a system tester from the zoners and it held pressure for thirty minutes. There isn't much coolant in it but if it held air for that long with maybe a half gallon of coolant in the block and no leaks anywhere, maybe it is sealed? Should the spark plugs be removed? Before I add any fluid or do anything else I want to be sure. Definitely NOT tearing this thing apart anymore. Would like to drive it someday. Thoughts are most welcome.

[Magnetic82]

Guess the cooling system test was just for show. Added one gallon of coolant and it leaked behind the water pump. Maybe the pump is wrong or something. ALl bolts were tightened properly and to the correct Ford specified torque. Double and triple checked. Pump looks like a China special. I still have the old pump that only has about 2000 miles on it. Once again, run to the parts store to buy more gaskets. Tear it apart. Again.
Sigh.

[Magnetic82]

Wrong gasket in the kit. Seems to happen to me a lot. Folks send me the wrong parts. Picked up the correct gasket today and since it is raining, I'll finish the install, er re-install, er re-re-install tomorrow. Good thing I don't play the lottery.

[erratic50]

Careful on pressure testing. 16 psi is stock cap pressure. The most I’ve gotten away with is a 19 lb cap. More than that blows the gasket on the back cover of the water pump in my experience.

my grandpa said he had poured hot lead between the pump cover and the timing cover as those back cover gaskets on the pump love to blow. These days a hard epoxy to keep the cover from getting out of shape should do the same idea. Only really needed if you need to run crazy pressure on a cooling system pushed to its limits. Dirt track car is a good example

good luck!

[Magnetic82]

I think it only held around 5 psi anyway. Replaced the gasket and the next day (right now) I have 2 gallons of coolant in it. But no start or crank. What a surprise. Replaced the starter relay and no change. I'm still trying to figure out how a car breaks down even though it is NOT in use. Fix one thing, something else breaks. As it is raining now, no more car garbage today. Have no idea why it will not crank let alone start. Don't really care anymore. Junk.

[Magnetic82]

Had the local fode dealership inspect and charge the battery cause, I don't know, that's where I purchased the battery. Took them four days (count 'em!) to charge a battery. Reinstalled and of course, nothing happens. Swapped back to the old starter relay just to check if the new one was bad. Still nothing. Good clean grounds and terminals, but no juice.
I think this thing is ready for the scrap heap. Don't plan to waste any more money or time on this piece of crap.
Fix or repair daily. Really? Not anymore.

[Solow302]

If you do continue I would look at the radiator and water pump. I had a 96 New Yorker that overheated in drive-thru lines alot. Radiator looked fine but I put a new one in and it's all good. Water pumps for 302's come in 2 rotations and if you have the wrong one it won't pump any water through the engine etc.

Starter leads can get corroded, ground cables can corrode where they attach to the engine, ignition switches can go bad. I've had all these issues with my '83. Patience and good weather make it all get sorted out eventually.

Best of luck with it!

[erratic50]

I'm very partial to black 85-86 GTs personally. My son has a convertible. I've had my hatchback for nearly 27 years.

Sometimes you have to work a while to exercise the daemons out of these things. Lord knows his 86GT has done its best a few times to get even with us for past abuse and neglect its received from previous owners.

Once you get this type of little problem fixed they are a very good and reliable car.

My 86 is pushing 1/2 million miles and I've always driven it like I stole it.

I've had SO much fun with my car over the years.

I hope the bad luck exits and you get to enjoy your car. If you're truly fed up post it up for sale and someone on here will buy it I'm sure.

[emerygt350]

I am sure plenty of guys on here would trade their problems for your "won't turn over" issue. Troubleshooting that is about as easy as it gets.