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  1. #1

    Default Tuning Your SEFI EEC-IV. SCT?

    Alright so, I've been having this conversation in a hijacked thread about how to get my 5.0L A9P with GT40 and other parts it's not used to. That thread is here.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...stang-for-2020

    So, my combo is as stated in sig, but I will be adding a Flowtech cam, and will be swapping my C&L "calibrated" MAF for fooling the computer for 24 lb injectors to a stock Cobra MAF. I do have 24 lb injectors, by the way. I reached out to a tuner buddy of mine, and he's on board to do the dyno tune. He says he likes to use SCT, but can work with just about anything. Since SCT is his go-to, I'm taking a serious look at it. I'm a bit confused by the website because it says you can burn a single tune or multiple. But there's nowhere for you to pick the option. I assume that means it's the same chip either way? Maybe? I wonder if I have to buy the cable.

    Also on the table is Moates or even Megasquirt if I hear enough that it's worth the investment. My goal is simply for my engine to run like brand-new stock and for my computer to not be confused by any of the parts on it. That was the goal in mind when i chose a 306 for my shortblock over a stroker.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Just get a Cobra ECU and 70mm MAF housing with a stock ford MAF sensor and 24’s.....

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    Just get a Cobra ECU and 70mm MAF housing
    The X3Z works only correct with the AFH70-02, hard to find.
    I bought a new one in Australia, should be the last one. Note, no letter after "02"
    1983 Ford Capri V8 Conversion
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    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    This discussion thread is old now but contains some part numbers that are a lot easier to find that work well with the Cobra type MAF calibration

    https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-for...f-help.739181/

    Essentially your normal (non-calibrated) LX/GT MAF sensor goes into a 70MM housing and the Cobra ECU has the MAF calibration and injector settings that matches that right out of the box. It already knows the correct amount of fuel to shoot out of a 24lb injector for the air mass metered in with that cobra style MAF setup.

    Guys that sell tunes online like dirtydirtyracing demand MAF meter setups like the Cobra and refuse to work with “calibrated” stuff.

    Eventually I’ll put 47lb injectors in my 86GT and run E85. It was a priority when the government was giving tax breaks for alternative fuel vehicles but that went away before I got my changes completed. My plan back then was to build a 400 HP E85 sleeper 86GT and drive it daily then turn 11’s at the track. Seems so long ago now.....

  5. #5

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    Looks like my MAF came off a '94 Cobra and has a "AHF70-04" sensor on it. Part # is F2VF-12B579-A2A. I notice the '94 Cobra is on that guy's list of F2VF MAFs, so I'm probably not being scammed.

    I know you're pushing for the Cobra computer, but the question is, do we stick with the A9P's advantages and have it tuned, or do we roll the dice on the X3Z accepting my mods and go with that? The two options will cost about the same parts-wise. Obviously the labor of the tune is the price difference. It does seem to me like the safer option though, since I will not be fiddling with it going forward unless I can hook up a computer and watch the sensors, that would just be fun. Not sure the SCT supports that though. And if there's an issue, I could see it in the O2 sensor reading and bring it back to my guy.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    This discussion thread is old now but contains some part numbers that are a lot easier to find that work well with the Cobra type MAF calibration

    https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-for...f-help.739181/

    Essentially your normal (non-calibrated) LX/GT MAF sensor goes into a 70MM housing and the Cobra ECU has the MAF calibration and injector settings that matches that right out of the box. It already knows the correct amount of fuel to shoot out of a 24lb injector for the air mass metered in with that cobra style MAF setup.

    Guys that sell tunes online like dirtydirtyracing demand MAF meter setups like the Cobra and refuse to work with “calibrated” stuff.

    Eventually I’ll put 47lb injectors in my 86GT and run E85. It was a priority when the government was giving tax breaks for alternative fuel vehicles but that went away before I got my changes completed. My plan back then was to build a 400 HP E85 sleeper 86GT and drive it daily then turn 11’s at the track. Seems so long ago now.....
    Alright, things may have changed a bit here now that I see I'm not going to be able to bolt this '94 Cobra MAF directly in. I'm looking at possibly buying a '93 version (which of course costs more), but I see the sensor on the '94 is the F2VF they refer to in the Stangnet link. The one in the '93 MAF currently on ebay is not. The Stangnet thread seems to have died before consensus was reached, and I'm a bit confused. You are saying I should put a GT sensor in the Cobra housing and add a Cobra computer to work with my Cobra spec components and 24 lb injectors. Why not the Cobra sensor? And what of the F2VF talk in the link? Are they saying you need the F2VF to run 19s with an A9L in the Cobra housing? That's not clear to me.

    Also, I heard somewhere the '94-95 Cobra went to 19# injectors. So, that may throw a wrench into things as well. The question is, do I keep the '94 MAF so I can use the F2VF sensor (maybe swap it into the '93 housing to save me from having to figure out a way to use the '94 housing), or can I try to sell it complete and buy the '93 MAF? Is the F2VF not even what I want because I have 24s? I do have 2 other H.O. MAFs, so I have a number of sensors to choose from here.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrEFI View Post
    Alright, things may have changed a bit here now that I see I'm not going to be able to bolt this '94 Cobra MAF directly in. I'm looking at possibly buying a '93 version (which of course costs more), but I see the sensor on the '94 is the F2VF they refer to in the Stangnet link. The one in the '93 MAF currently on ebay is not. The Stangnet thread seems to have died before consensus was reached, and I'm a bit confused. You are saying I should put a GT sensor in the Cobra housing and add a Cobra computer to work with my Cobra spec components and 24 lb injectors. Why not the Cobra sensor? And what of the F2VF talk in the link? Are they saying you need the F2VF to run 19s with an A9L in the Cobra housing? That's not clear to me.

    Also, I heard somewhere the '94-95 Cobra went to 19# injectors. So, that may throw a wrench into things as well. The question is, do I keep the '94 MAF so I can use the F2VF sensor (maybe swap it into the '93 housing to save me from having to figure out a way to use the '94 housing), or can I try to sell it complete and buy the '93 MAF? Is the F2VF not even what I want because I have 24s? I do have 2 other H.O. MAFs, so I have a number of sensors to choose from here.
    From my limited first hand experience but countless hours scouring the internet on these cars, is that the ‘93 Cobra used 24lbs injectors, and a stock MAF sensor (unsure of housing) and that the tuning for the 24s was internal to the computer. That’s what is regarded as the proper way of doing an injector swap anyway, but you have the use the housing, 24s, and computer in conjunction.


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  8. #8

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    I tried tuning the factory A9l EEC with a Tweeker RT with limited success. Later I used a Moats Quarterhorse, that was easier to use, but you still had to learn a ton to get good results. Lastly I used a Megasquirt II with Tunerstudio tuning software. It was by far a better way to go for me. Much easier to understand and tune. Auto-tuning is available and it works good.

    Jess
    Previously owned;
    1979 Mustang, v6 swapped to EFI 393, custom installed m122 blower, 4r70w trans, Megasquirt II, T-top swaped in.
    1990 Mustang, 545 BBF, C-4 with brake, ladder bars.
    1983 Mustang, 1984 SVO Mustang
    1984 Mustang convertible, v6 swapped to 351
    1986 Mustang GT, 1989 Mustang GT convertible
    1992 Mustang coupe, 4 swapped to 302

  9. #9

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    Ugh, I just noticed the '93 MAF on ebay says it's "a 70mm housing identical to the '93 Cobra's, but calibrated for 19 lb injectors" whatever that means. That may explain why it has a different sensor than my '94 one though.

    Thanks for the input, guys. Still not sure what direction I'm gonna go here.

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    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  10. #10
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Calibrated for 19 lb is probably their way of saying stock as delivered from Ford MAF sensor. OE never calibrated a MAF sensor differently than it’s supposed to be. They used the reading vs the tube diameter to calculate the mass of air.

    this “make the ECU think it’s at 30K feet and spray less fuel” is the aftermarkets way of oversimplifying things toforce stuff to work cheaply so they could sell more “upgrade” parts

    the 70MM cobra and 58MM lx/GT housings used electronically the same MAF sensor.

    The 70mm has a different air flow volume vs MAF voltage reading curve due to the MAF’s larger diameter

    I would have to see the ad to know for sure but I’ll bet you that’s the correct setup to use with a Cobra ECU and 24’s.

    Tom Moss published the CFM and electrical signal comparison of 58MM vs 70MM MAF housings on his veryuseful.com site I believe.


    Bet ya a dollar it works with the cobra ECU and 24’s

    https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-for...-meter.640997/
    Last edited by erratic50; 02-22-2019 at 11:22 PM.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    Calibrated for 19 lb is probably their way of saying stock as delivered from Ford MAF sensor. OE never calibrated a MAF sensor differently than it’s supposed to be.
    A MAF is calibrated for the ECU, not for injectors.
    Have a look, the green line is F2VF (AFH70-02A) - the yellow is 93 Cobra (AFH70-02).


    Name:  MAF Voltage.jpg
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    Use a tweecer or etc. and your MAF will work.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    The 70mm has a different air flow volume vs MAF voltage reading curve due to the MAF’s larger diameter
    Okay, I think I've got my head around that now. I guess I just kept getting distracted by people like the ebay seller's BS.

    I did buy the '93 MAF. I just want to make things as easy as I can. Although, that's a bit harder to swallow at the $300 an X3Z goes for on ebay. Auto Zone claims to have one for $115 + core though. Worth exploring, I'd say.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  13. #13
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    I use to tune Mustang's with SCT software, when I had my Dynojet. The problem you run into when using different MAF's with different computers, is over the years, Ford kept increasing the computer speeds. This will cause an issue when you try to use different MAF's with a different ECU speed that are not the same.
    Now SCT software will automatically compensate for this when you select a different stock MAF for the tune. When ever you tune with SCT to run different size injectors, there are several functions in the program that must be changed. The software will re-scale the Cubic inch size of the motor to be able to make the larger injectors function correctly. There are ways to get the ECU to work right with the larger injectors, but you need to understand how it all works to get it right.
    Switching MAF sensors with different bodies is asking for trouble, You may never get it to run right, without totally re-mapping the MAF tables in the program. With the older EECIV's that is very difficult because of the lack of short term fuel function not in EECIV's. You would need some other software capable of recording air fuel ratios, airflow , rpm, to name a few. SCT use to sell a data logger tool called a Raptor. What I'm trying to say is, when you switch up MAF sensors on a different body, you will have to re-calibrate the MAF transfer function in the program your self, and that is very time consuming with an older EECIV.

  14. #14
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Autozone is absolutely worth exploring, yes.

    Core usually isn’t much. 3/4 of the time you can give them back any old EEC-IV too

    Look over the MAF sensor in that housing when you get it. Make sure it’s compatible and/or electronically and calibration wise the same part number as is used on the Cobra housing.

    i say this because otherwise you may run into problems like dynodon64 is describing.

    personally I’d swap in the 24’s and the Cobra ECU and the MAF you just bought and try it. If you can read plugs or have a wideband you’ll know pretty quickly if it’s in the ballpark.

  15. #15

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    Go with a Megasquirt and no need to use a mass air meter. Think about that when looking at the total cost.

    Jess
    Previously owned;
    1979 Mustang, v6 swapped to EFI 393, custom installed m122 blower, 4r70w trans, Megasquirt II, T-top swaped in.
    1990 Mustang, 545 BBF, C-4 with brake, ladder bars.
    1983 Mustang, 1984 SVO Mustang
    1984 Mustang convertible, v6 swapped to 351
    1986 Mustang GT, 1989 Mustang GT convertible
    1992 Mustang coupe, 4 swapped to 302

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    Autozone is absolutely worth exploring, yes.

    Core usually isn’t much. 3/4 of the time you can give them back any old EEC-IV too
    Haha, yeah. I turned in completely different calipers for all 4 corners when I did that swap.

    Look over the MAF sensor in that housing when you get it. Make sure it’s compatible and/or electronically and calibration wise the same part number as is used on the Cobra housing.

    i say this because otherwise you may run into problems like dynodon64 is describing.

    personally I’d swap in the 24’s and the Cobra ECU and the MAF you just bought and try it. If you can read plugs or have a wideband you’ll know pretty quickly if it’s in the ballpark.
    Yeah, that's why I'm hanging on to the '94 MAF at least until after I figure out if I should swap over the sensor that came on it. Like if maybe the ebay seller swapped it for one he thought would work better on a GT.

    I do already have 24s and have been running them for a while. I have your favorite, a "calibrated" C&L MAF for them.

    I don't know how to read plugs, nor do I have a wideband though.

    I think Megasquirt is probably going to be a backup plan at this point. I feel like I need to explore the EEC route.

    Dynodon, is Moates any better? According to the website, the Quarterhorse will monitor sensors and change parameters live. SCT makes no such claims on their page.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  17. #17
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    I'm not familiar with Moates. I haven't tuned a car in over 10 years.

  18. #18

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    I decided to ask the guy that posted the ad what exactly he means by "identical to the 1993 Mustang Cobra 70 mm air meter except this is calibrated for 19# lb/hr fuel injectors". Here's what I wrote:

    "It's my understanding that a factory MAF cannot be "calibrated". When you say this one is "calibrated for 19# injectors" what exactly does that mean? Did you change something on it? The reason I ask is, I have 24# injectors.

    No need to be concerned about my wanting to return it, I want it for the 70mm housing either way. I just want to know exactly what I'm getting.
    Thanks!"

    His response

    "This is a 70mm air meter that has the 19lb air meter sensor."

    Yeah, thanks for nothing, pal. I read the auction, I just want to know what that means! Is it a Cobra housing that he swapped the sensor for a GT one? Is it a Ford meter from a different car? In the end, if it's a Ford 70mm housing I can bolt right in (unlike the '94 housing), I am happy. I just want to know what exactly the thing is. If it doesn't have a Cobra sensor on it, I'd like to know is all! I guess at this point I'll just wait and see what I get. If the housing is different than an '89-93 type one with hose flanges on both ends, I will make a stink. He even states that the picture he uses is not necessarily of the item, but DOES say it's IDENTICAL to a '93 Cobra one.
    Last edited by ZephyrEFI; 02-24-2019 at 03:07 PM.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
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  19. #19
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Yea, on that reply thanks for nothing is exactly right!

    As as long as the housing is shaped identical to the 70MM 93 Cobra everything should work fine.

  20. #20

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    Alright, so I received the claimed '93 Cobra MAF. The outer shape of it is identical to the GT MAF I have on hand, so I am happy about that. I should be able to slip the hoses on and go. Notice the number on the sensor though.



    AFH55-03B. So from this, we can assume that he did, in fact, source a 70mm housing (I measured) from SOMETHING, and swapped a Mustang GT sensor (intended for a 55mm housing) onto it. Maybe he owns a junkyard or something. Who knows. Weird thing to do though, given what we know from Erratic in this thread.

    My plan at this point is to swap the sensor from the '94 MAF onto the '93 one since it probably matches with it better. Good thing I bought the '94 one after all. The pic shows the difference in the housing though.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  21. #21
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    The 93 Cobra 70MM MAF uses effectively the same MAF sensor as the LX/GT 58. Have swapped them before, no problem.

    The 93 Cobra ECU knows the air mass based upon the meter diameter reading that sensor, and knows it has 24lb injectors. I would run the 24’s with the cobra ECU and meter as delivered.

    Read the plugs, see how it runs. I’ve been wrong before sure, but it’s a well educated suggestion

  22. #22
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    Just to add some numbers to the discussion there is a good link below showing MAF Transfer Function differences between stock 55 mm and 93 Cobra 70 mm...

    http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/te...ck-gt-maf.html

    If the pic below is showing up.... IGNORE IT!
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    Last edited by qikgts; 02-28-2019 at 01:18 AM.
    '85 GT

  23. #23
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    If you want to be very-very sure you could get a replacement sensor “for a 93 cobra” and drop it into the 70MM housing.

    Ford’s normal calibration on a MAF sensor placed in the 70MM housing yields what that Cobra ECU wants.

    Hook the 70MM MAF into a computer like A9L that runs the normal 58MM LX/GT MAF calibration — you’ll see a near chronic lean condition at high RPM

    put the 58 MM MAF on the 93 ECU, you’ll get a near chronic rich condition at high RPM.


    Again - ECU calculates the mass of air passing to the engine using both the MAF sensor reading and it’s settings for the housing diameter details. Sensor being constant - Change the housing diameter and don’t change the ECU program you get the wrong answer on mass calculation.
    Last edited by erratic50; 02-28-2019 at 01:10 AM.

  24. #24

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    Alright alright! I'll see if Autozone's deal is real or not.

    I do have one more concern though. My harness is for an automatic, A9P. Do you happen to have any experience with changes to pins?

    I googled it quick and found there's something with the O2 harness.
    Last edited by ZephyrEFI; 02-28-2019 at 01:15 AM.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  25. #25
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    Don't forget Rockauto...

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    '85 GT

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