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  1. #1
    FEP Member bkm's Avatar
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    Default 83 GT Budget Drag Car Build EFI Swap

    I'm not sure if Rodney (50Tussin on YouTube) is on here, but this build is the result of his Budget Fox videos. If you guy's haven't already checked them out, I promise they don't disappoint.

    I bought this car off here two years ago from Skip out in Denver and hauled it back to St. Louis. Since then I've contemplated selling it and buying a driver a few times, but everything around here is either overpriced or rusted out badly. This car has zero rust on it, so I decided to just do what I've always wanted to do and build a lightweight drag car.

    So far I've purchased a Explorer P engine, 1 3/4 long tubes, 8.8 w/ 4.56 gears.

    I will be swapping to 86-93 efi and have a 93 harness with A9L computer. The transmission will be stick shift, I just don't know which one I want to use? I like the toploader for its strength and 2.78 first gear, but no overdrive might be an issue, so I might see how long the 2.95 NWC T5 holds up?

    Here's where i am currently. I have the drivetrain pulled, getting ready to tackle the wiring.





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  2. #2
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Gforce or Astro gear sets in a T5 will work out well as long as you are shifting by 7500 and either select the correct overdrive ratio or only run 1-4

  3. #3
    FEP Member bkm's Avatar
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    I thought about the astro t5 or find a used TKO. I've got a SROD bellhousing so that would be one less thing I've got to buy if I go TKO.

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  4. #4
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    The first thing you need to look at is the amount of power you are looking to put down.

    Astro has an aftermarket T5 case (for building their A5) that will hold a lot more than a TKO, can shift a higher RPM, and is lighter. An all around better option albeit if you are dead serious about racing then a race prepped C4 or glide is going to make you more consistent

    Personally I won’t give up my 3rd pedal in the quest for consistency because ETs aren’t that important to me but fun factor is. And I think launching and shifting a manual is 98% of the fun.....

    There are pictures of the battlebox install Trey did in my 1985GT Saleen clone in its build thread. That thread details the control arms I’d recommend as well.
    Last edited by erratic50; 02-04-2019 at 10:20 AM.

  5. #5
    FEP Member bkm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    The first thing you need to look at is the amount of power you are looking to put down.

    Astro has an aftermarket T5 case (for building their A5) that will hold a lot more than a TKO, can shift a higher RPM, and is lighter. An all around better option albeit if you are dead serious about racing then a race prepped C4 or glide is going to make you more consistent

    Personally I won’t give up my 3rd pedal in the quest for consistency because ETs aren’t that important to me but fun factor is. And I think launching and shifting a manual is 98% of the fun.....
    I'm the same way, can't ditch the third pedal.

    Power level will be minimal with the gt40 junk, and to be honest, a T5 with billet keys, bronze pads, cluster support, and minimal end play, would probably hold just fine. I just hate the 3.35 first with 4.56 gears. Second comes about pretty quickly. So I might freshen up the NWC T5 and run it till it gives up the ghost. I remember years ago reading Bob Hanlon actually preferred the NWC box over the WC.

    The top loaders 2.78 first is appealing, but the $600 quicktime bell isn't, and by the time I buy everything to make it work, I could buy the T5 gearset and have OD.


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  6. #6
    FEP Super Member mmb617's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    Personally I won’t give up my 3rd pedal in the quest for consistency because ETs aren’t that important to me but fun factor is. And I think launching and shifting a manual is 98% of the fun.....
    Sure winning is nice but in sportsman drag racing having fun is the most important thing, it's why we waste so much time and money on the sport. And the way to maximize the fun is to row them gears!

    I spent 7 years running a T5 almost every week. I always lusted for an A5 but never quite had the moolah for one. I did however get very familiar with the insides of a T5 transmission.

    Do keep us up to date on your progress as I for one love to watch other people spend money.
    408/T5/3.73's

    We're not fast racers, we're more what's known as half fast racers.

  7. #7
    FEP Member bkm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmb617 View Post
    Sure winning is nice but in sportsman drag racing having fun is the most important thing, it's why we waste so much time and money on the sport. And the way to maximize the fun is to row them gears!

    I spent 7 years running a T5 almost every week. I always lusted for an A5 but never quite had the moolah for one. I did however get very familiar with the insides of a T5 transmission.

    Do keep us up to date on your progress as I for one love to watch other people spend money.
    Couldn't agree more. Building a budget pile and beating on it like it owes you money is about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on.

    I got the factory wiring pulled from the passenger side fenderwell and everything layed over on the drivers side for the EFI harness. I ran the passenger side light wires on top of the drivers side lights and up under the top of the radiator core support. My goal is to eliminate all the non essential wiring under the hood that ran the carbed engine and tie in to the EFI harness using oem connectors. I'm hoping to the untrained eye, it'll look like an 86-93 under the hood.

    Being budget based, I'd like to use basically the explorer long block and a used cam like an Anderson N41 or similar with a good spring package. I really want to concentrate from the flywheel back and get the car working properly before going with better heads/intake and a custom cam.

    Right now its about having as much fun as a limited budget will allow.
    Last edited by bkm; 02-05-2019 at 02:13 PM.

  8. #8
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    I suggest on your next clutch job to pay careful attention to disc and pressureplate weight

    also get an autozone flywheel for 86+ cars.

    - uses a 10.5” clutch which is way cheaper
    - 8 or 9 lbs less rotating mass in a large diameter object

    Amazon has a 14 lb aluminum flywheel but it’s $250 vs $50 ....


    If you can source a T5Z or Gforce or Astro gear set the 2.95 1st will help

    Honestly at a 4.56 rear gear unless your rear tires are quite tall you might have luck doing a ride the clutch hard out of the hole with high launch RPM and leaving in 2nd. Especially if the car leaves wheels up — the last thing you want to do is shift wheels in the air if you can help it!

    depends a ton on the track, the tires, the power level, vehicle weight, suspension setup, etc

    It introduces wear on clutches but a drag car is lightened so much less than an experienced driver would launching a stock gear car

    For a 3000 lb car with near 400 ft lbs around an 11-12 ratio for first is often considered ideal.
    3.35 * 4.56 = 15.276
    2.95 * 4.56 = 13.452

    *shrug* it just depends upon your power curve.....

  9. #9
    FEP Member bkm's Avatar
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    For cars at this power level I've always had good luck with the Autozone flywheel and "king cobra" style clutch kits with a T5. The clutch being the weak link between the two seems to keep the T5 happier a tad longer.

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  10. #10
    FEP Super Member mmb617's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    For a 3000 lb car with near 400 ft lbs around an 11-12 ratio for first is often considered ideal.
    3.35 * 4.56 = 15.276
    2.95 * 4.56 = 13.452

    *shrug* it just depends upon your power curve.....
    That's interesting. My car is right about that weight and power level and has a 3.35 first gear and 3.73's in the rear for a 12.50 ratio, not that far from the listed ideal.

    Once I got the right tires on it (28x10.5) it did seem to launch well.
    408/T5/3.73's

    We're not fast racers, we're more what's known as half fast racers.

  11. #11
    FEP Super Member mmb617's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bkm View Post
    For cars at this power level I've always had good luck with the Autozone flywheel and "king cobra" style clutch kits with a T5. The clutch being the weak link between the two seems to keep the T5 happier a tad longer.
    I used a Zoom kevlar clutch at first then went to a Centerforce later. I really liked the CF as it had a light pedal effort for street driving yet had enough balls for the track. I never really thought of using the clutch as the fuse to protect the T5 as I only broke an input once and that was on a used transmission where I don't know what condition it was in to start. I was usually able to put 100+ passes on a T5 before something needed replaced.

    In my opinion the one thing that will kill a T5 with any kind of power behind it is power shifting it. I always lifted between shifts for that reason. Otherwise I'd have been tearing down the transmission much more frequently and those parts aren't cheap.
    408/T5/3.73's

    We're not fast racers, we're more what's known as half fast racers.

  12. #12
    FEP Member bkm's Avatar
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    Back in my teenage years a buddy and I had very similar setups except for he had a z spec T5 with a little softer clutch, Ram I think, and I had a regular world class 3.35 with a Spec stage?? clutch. We both had 4.30 gears and he'd out 60' me all day long. We swapped drivers and I'd out 60' him in his car every time.

    The cars made almost identical power and I broke 2 T5's while he was still on his first. We had no clue his first gear was 2.95 until the transmission guy told us while tearing mine back apart for the 3rd time. We always thought a T5 was a T5 was a T5.............. the more you know right!

    So I found a guy selling a Z spec somewhat cheap and it came with a king cobra. 60' went down and that trans lasted till I sold the car.

    The transmission guy would always tell me if I get tired of messing with the 5 speed, go toploader and more rear gear. The 2.78 first loves a lot of rear gear. He had a 67 mustang with a small block and toploader and 4.88 was his favorite gear. Drove it everywhere on a 27" tire.

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    Last edited by bkm; 02-06-2019 at 11:44 AM.

  13. #13
    FEP Member bkm's Avatar
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    Not much progress due to the cold weather, but I have been in contact with Buddy Rawls and he is is going to do the camshaft for me. I know a custom cam is not exactly "budget," but he knows how to make some steam with these oem Ford heads.

    The orginal plan was to use the P heads, but Buddy told me the valve free drop is almost non existant and really limits putting the events where they need to be.

    I have a set of 65 289 C5AE heads (non hi-po) with small chambers (53-54cc) that have been converted to screw in stud mount and the guides and pockets have been machined for dual springs. These heads might be used in place of the P heads?

    I know there are better alternatives for heads, but I'm committed to using the Ford iron. Anyone can make power with a Twisted Wedge or AFR, but it takes a real dummy to make less with oem junk.

    I'm also probably going to skip the EFI conversion. I'm going to keep it simple with a carb setup, plus I won't have to change anything.

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  14. #14

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    Wise decisions. Fun factor increase, dollars out the door decrease. If the C5's don't already have them, hardened exhaust seats installed will eliminate the inevitable exhaust valve/seat recession when they're run with unleaded.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  15. #15
    FEP Member bkm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    Wise decisions. Fun factor increase, dollars out the door decrease. If the C5's don't already have them, hardened exhaust seats installed will eliminate the inevitable exhaust valve/seat recession when they're run with unleaded.
    I'm pretty excited to be working with Buddy and seeing what this little iron lump will do. I'm in the infancy of the build so I'm going to pretty much tell him what I want the car to do, and ask what I need to buy to get it there.

    If I didn't despise the flat tappet break in procedure, I'd consider a solid flat tappet to keep costs down even more and put the money into the rest of the driveline.

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  16. #16
    FEP Member bkm's Avatar
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    While comparing the C5 heads to the P heads, it was clear the P heads are in much better shape and that is what Buddy will be designing the cam for.

    Now gear ratio is where I'm at am impass. To run 4th gear I need 6000 rpms and that is a 5.13 gear. If I want to run in 3rd across the stripe, a 4.10 gear puts me where I want to be. I just have to decide what this engine like once its together.

  17. #17
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Good discussion on making power with iron heads here

    http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-t...troker-engine/

    you can expect about 10% less if you stay at 302 cid

  18. #18

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    How you liking this fine Missouri weather? Mid April and it's snowing... errr! Makes getting anything done difficult. If you ever hit up bonne terre or gateway let me know....

    Rodney is awesome, his results are always pretty awesome for thrown together parts!
    My Previous Stangs:
    86 GT, t-tops, 5 speed.
    87 GT, sunroof, 5 speed.
    88 GT, sunroof, 5 speed.
    89 LX, Sunroof, Roller (project)
    90 Coupe, LX, 2.3, 5 speed.

  19. #19
    FEP Power Member STL79Coupe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bkm View Post
    While comparing the C5 heads to the P heads, it was clear the P heads are in much better shape and that is what Buddy will be designing the cam for.

    Now gear ratio is where I'm at am impass. To run 4th gear I need 6000 rpms and that is a 5.13 gear. If I want to run in 3rd across the stripe, a 4.10 gear puts me where I want to be. I just have to decide what this engine like once its together.
    With my old P headed setup my best was 12.5@110 crossing the line in 4th at about 6100 or so.
    Keith formerly STLPONDS
    '79 V8 coupe in the works!
    Build thread http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=89153

  20. #20
    FEP Power Member STL79Coupe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobileaudio219 View Post
    How you liking this fine Missouri weather? Mid April and it's snowing... errr! Makes getting anything done difficult. If you ever hit up bonne terre or gateway let me know....

    Rodney is awesome, his results are always pretty awesome for thrown together parts!
    LOL good ol Missouri weather keeps us on our toes.
    Keith formerly STLPONDS
    '79 V8 coupe in the works!
    Build thread http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=89153

  21. #21
    FEP Member bkm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobileaudio219 View Post
    How you liking this fine Missouri weather? Mid April and it's snowing... errr! Makes getting anything done difficult. If you ever hit up bonne terre or gateway let me know....

    Rodney is awesome, his results are always pretty awesome for thrown together parts!
    85 degrees earlier in the week and now high 30's. Lol

    I do plan on hitting up Bonne Terre when I get it running and I'll definitely let you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by STL79Coupe View Post
    With my old P headed setup my best was 12.5@110 crossing the line in 4th at about 6100 or so.
    Was that with the 4.56 gears? Buddy said the 4.56's would be perfect with this cam for the 1/4, but 5.13's is what it really needs for 1/8. Or 4.10's and crossing in 3rd.

  22. #22
    FEP Power Member STL79Coupe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bkm View Post
    85 degrees earlier in the week and now high 30's. Lol

    I do plan on hitting up Bonne Terre when I get it running and I'll definitely let you know. Was that with the 4.56 gears? Buddy said the 4.56's would be perfect with this cam for the 1/4, but 5.13's is what it really needs for 1/8. Or 4.10's and crossing in 3rd.
    Yeah 4.56 on a 28x9 MT slick.
    Keith formerly STLPONDS
    '79 V8 coupe in the works!
    Build thread http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=89153

  23. #23
    FEP Member bkm's Avatar
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    I finally decided on a transmission and picked up a fresh toploader with V-Gate shifter. I found a brand new misslabed Ram Powergrip HD clutch kit on Ebay for $250 shipped so I decided to go with that and a Fidanza aluminum flywheel along with a Romac balancer. I haven't weighed the balancer yet, but it feels lighter than the oe unit.

    The "budget" theme is kinda going out the window so I decided on a full chromoly UPR front suspension kit.

    I started tearing down the engine getting ready for ptv clearance check and transferring over the oil pan and front accessorys.

  24. #24
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Stuffs getting serious now ....

  25. #25
    FEP Member bkm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    Stuffs getting serious now ....
    You more than anyone know how it is. The longer the build, the more the word "budget" get loosely adhered to.

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