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  1. #1

    Default New Clutch and Now This Noise

    Need your expertise in diagnosing the clutch noise in my 2001 Bullitt. I put in a factory replacement Valeo clutch kit a few weeks back. Have been breaking it in with less than 300 miles on it. It suddenly started making a metallic chattering noise when clutch pedal is released and tranny in neutral. It also makes this noise when the clutch pedal is being depressed about 3/4 of the way to the floor. Once fully depressed the noise goes away. Hope you can hear in the attached video. It seems to be an input shaft bearing but seems odd to fail in an immediate way. Could be TO bearing?? The TR3650 has fresh Dextron V. The flywheel bolts were torqued with Loctite. It should be noted that I did pull up on the pedal to adjust the cable about 20 miles before the noise started. Trying to think of everything to mention.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iwg...w?usp=drivesdk

  2. #2

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    I had the clutch fork come loose when I was trying to line up a transmission. I shoved it back in and kibda forgot about it. One if the tanges on the throwiut bearing was in the wrong place and contacted the pressure plate and made a very similar noise.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haystack View Post
    I had the clutch fork come loose when I was trying to line up a transmission. I shoved it back in and kibda forgot about it. One if the tanges on the throwiut bearing was in the wrong place and contacted the pressure plate and made a very similar noise.
    There was no noise for the first 250 miles. Now suddenly there is this chatter. Would a clutch fork get mis-aligned during normal use?

  4. #4
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    I think it’s the pilot bearing. They get punished sometimes during trans install. You do a few heat cycles and the next thing you know the insides of the bearing are in the back of the crank.

    initially the lack of pilot bearing is no problem. As the clutch hangs on the input shaft it starts allowing input shaft contact with the bearing retainer

    The only other time I’ve ever seen anything like this, the trans bolts hadn’t been torqued past finger tight.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    I think it’s the pilot bearing. They get punished sometimes during trans install. You do a few heat cycles and the next thing you know the insides of the bearing are in the back of the crank.

    initially the lack of pilot bearing is no problem. As the clutch hangs on the input shaft it starts allowing input shaft contact with the bearing retainer

    The only other time I’ve ever seen anything like this, the trans bolts hadn’t been torqued past finger tight.
    If the pilot bushing was damaged during install and pushed back to the crank wouldn’t it make constant noise? Noise goes away when pedal is fully depressed. I will check the tranny bolts when I can get the car back in the air.

    Appreciate the input from everyone one this far

  6. #6
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    Pilot bearing would not make noise with the clutch engaged as the input shaft is turning with the engine. Seems more like something release bearing related.

  7. #7
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    In my experience the input shaft will make progressively worse noise with the clutch engaged if the bushing/bearing is out. Then crunch and munch when the input shaft just lets go under the weight of a clutch mass spinning. Bear in mind it gets off center

    This is my opinion with the benefit of hind site having killed a T5 in a similar fashion. Mine gave few small hints before the bearing went entirely and within just a few miles the trans was letting go catostrophically

    Stop messing with it and tear it down. Inspect everything. Have the trans input shaft checked by a trans shop or refer to the shop procedures manual and do it.

    There are scenarios where it could be a fork or it could be a pressure plate finger, etc. nothing will get solved without a tear down
    Last edited by erratic50; 01-21-2019 at 02:36 AM.

  8. #8

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    Uggg not what I wanted to hear. So odd to me that the input shaft bearing would just suddenly go bad almost immediately after a clutch swap. I have no choice but to drop the tranny. It’s going to be some time as I will need the car on a lift. Space is an issue when dropping these one piece TR3650’s

  9. #9
    FEP Senior Member 83gt351w's Avatar
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    Just spitballing here, you said you recently adjusted the clutch about 20 miles before it started. Is it possible the adjustment is off, resulting in the throw out bearing always riding on the fingered diaphragm thingy? Dang, can’t think of it’s name. And you said with the clutch fully depressed, it goes away. Finally pulling the bearing away from the diaphragm. I know they aren’t meant to be firmly pressed against the diaphragm and spin very long, before they go bad.
    Last edited by 83gt351w; 01-21-2019 at 06:21 PM.

  10. #10
    FEP Senior Member 83gt351w's Avatar
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    I just listened to the video, that’s EXACTLY what a bad throw out bearing sounds like.

  11. #11
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    The throwout bearing spins with the pressure plate. Usually there is enough tension on the cable that even at 100% "clutch release" the bearing still spins with the pressure plate which is direct drive with the crank on the engine.

    Noise could vary by the amount of pressure on the bearing but usually when releasing the clutch they will make noises that are 10x worse.

    Pilot bearing only "spins" when the crank is turning at a different RPM than the input shaft on the transmission. Full clutch engagement there's NO movement of the pilot bearing, but if that bearing is bad the weight of the clutch disc will invariably side-load the input shaft bearing in the transmission which will give you a TON of noise as the condition of the input shaft and bearing worsen. They'll get to the point that they hit on the bearing retainer all the time which is a god-awful racket. Engaging the clutch doesn't solve it either because there's nothing to re-center the input shaft to make it stop with the noises.


    Anyway......


    Its very likely either the pilot bearing ..... less likely the throwout bearing IMO. I'm leaning towards the pilot bearing based upon experiences I've had that killed a T5 personally.

    I think you have bad noises coming from your transmission input shaft and its going to have to be serviced or the trans will have to be replaced before things are reassembled.

    Sorry to be a bearer or bad news here.


    I always take the throwout bearing that comes with the clutch kits and do like its name implies...... i throw it out. The only bearings I trust in my car generally are name brands like National or Timken.

    I made the mistake or removing the OE pilot bearing from my 1986GT and replacing it "as good maintenance" during a clutch job when the car had 200K miles. That new bearing is the one that separated and failed and killed my T5. I put an OE Ford bearing back in it and its been that way ever since ..... the car has nearly 1/2 million miles on it now.

    My rule of thumb on pilot bearings is only replace them if they seem like they need to be replaced when looking at the input shaft of the trans and heavy heat marks are present. Otherwise its apply a dab of high temp grease and stab the trans again. If replacing, name brand only.

    My rule of thumb on throwout bearings is a new one goes in every single time I do a clutch job unless there is some sort of dire situation that prevents me from replacing it. Like the new one I have doesn't fit and I need the car the next day, etc. I've gotten away with the same throwout bearing through multiple clutch jobs a few times as needed, but as a rule I try very hard to avoid that. But name brand is all I'll run.

    I sincerely wish you the best of luck with getting this solved. Stay safe while wrenching!

  12. #12
    FEP Senior Member 83gt351w's Avatar
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    I had that backwards. The throw out bearing is pushed INTO the diaphragm. Either way, both are cheap, and not much more work for the pilot bearing. I’d start first with clutch adjustment, and go from there. Grease it well on the face and clutch fork, too.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    The throwout bearing spins with the pressure plate. Usually there is enough tension on the cable that even at 100% "clutch release" the bearing still spins with the pressure plate which is direct drive with the crank on the engine.

    Noise could vary by the amount of pressure on the bearing but usually when releasing the clutch they will make noises that are 10x worse.

    Pilot bearing only "spins" when the crank is turning at a different RPM than the input shaft on the transmission. Full clutch engagement there's NO movement of the pilot bearing, but if that bearing is bad the weight of the clutch disc will invariably side-load the input shaft bearing in the transmission which will give you a TON of noise as the condition of the input shaft and bearing worsen. They'll get to the point that they hit on the bearing retainer all the time which is a god-awful racket. Engaging the clutch doesn't solve it either because there's nothing to re-center the input shaft to make it stop with the noises.


    Anyway......


    Its very likely either the pilot bearing ..... less likely the throwout bearing IMO. I'm leaning towards the pilot bearing based upon experiences I've had that killed a T5 personally.

    I think you have bad noises coming from your transmission input shaft and its going to have to be serviced or the trans will have to be replaced before things are reassembled.

    Sorry to be a bearer or bad news here.


    I always take the throwout bearing that comes with the clutch kits and do like its name implies...... i throw it out. The only bearings I trust in my car generally are name brands like National or Timken.

    I made the mistake or removing the OE pilot bearing from my 1986GT and replacing it "as good maintenance" during a clutch job when the car had 200K miles. That new bearing is the one that separated and failed and killed my T5. I put an OE Ford bearing back in it and its been that way ever since ..... the car has nearly 1/2 million miles on it now.

    My rule of thumb on pilot bearings is only replace them if they seem like they need to be replaced when looking at the input shaft of the trans and heavy heat marks are present. Otherwise its apply a dab of high temp grease and stab the trans again. If replacing, name brand only.

    My rule of thumb on throwout bearings is a new one goes in every single time I do a clutch job unless there is some sort of dire situation that prevents me from replacing it. Like the new one I have doesn't fit and I need the car the next day, etc. I've gotten away with the same throwout bearing through multiple clutch jobs a few times as needed, but as a rule I try very hard to avoid that. But name brand is all I'll run.

    I sincerely wish you the best of luck with getting this solved. Stay safe while wrenching!
    Thanks Erratic. The car has 78k miles so probably could have left the original pilot bearing in there. I wish we had, as it was a pain to get out even with the proper puller. Thought the puller was going to let go lol

    I will get either Factory Ford parts or National / Timken for when I pull it back down. Will it be obvious which one is the culprit

  14. #14
    FEP Power Member Jerry peachuer's Avatar
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    I agree on using good bearings.i think your pilot bearing if installed all the way is going to make constant noise no matter what unless car is off

    Why? The crank spinning regardless if it's in neutral or any gear

    What changed ? Clutch assembly did which can be diferent in overall height and this will touch or not.come close to touching where it used to touch (changes throwout bearing location) before it gets pedal input

    I would open inspection cover and look where throwout bearing is at with car off and no pedal movement applied

    I would make sure your throw out bearing retainer sleeve is not running on the clutch flngers

    Sound goes away when you apply slight pressure because possibly your pushing the fingers away from retainer

    This could be 1 of many things but if trans was working before I wouldn't sweat that as much but would make sure you have enough fluid

    Pilot bearing will squeal constantly I don't think it's that but look first at what you can see it could even be the block plate rubbing on back side of fly wheel

  15. #15
    FEP Power Member Jerry peachuer's Avatar
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    Changes throw out bearing location meaning clutch assembly is closer or further away from throw out bearing resting spot


    Pilot bearing constant spins it's part of the crank once installed

    Throwout bearing is just chilling in the fork once it touches the spinning clutch the bearing does what it does "spins" squeals if bad
    Pushes on fingers

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