5 speed question

[NAVYCAT]

Can a 5 speed from a 4 or V6 years from 86 to 98 be used on a V8, I know that it will bolt right up but are the gear ratio's the same? are they strong enough??

[NAVYCAT]

Oh I forgot to say is the motor I have is out of a 95 GT

[erratic50]

Post the tag ID if you have it — that will tell us exactly what you are playing with

1352-___

The 4 banger T5’s have a 3.97:1 low gear in them if memory serves. That vs a 3.35 in most V8 cars (LX/GT) and 2.95 in some (Cobra, 85 non-WC, etc) V8 cars.

1st in the 4cyl setup is that low to help the underpowered 2.3 N/A 4cly start off.

The 4 cyl trans also has a much reduced overdrive. Around 0.80 usually vs 0.68 in most V8 cars and 0.63 or even 0.59 (aftermarket) in some V8 setups

The pilot bearing inside diameter is different 4cyl vs V8 but there is a bearing that will fit in the V8 crankshaft and fit the 4cyl input shaft. 84SVTStang recently put a 4 banger T5 in his 84GT to make it to a show this fall.

A lot of V8 cars get gear swapped to 3.27-4.10 ..... picking middle of the road on that calculation it reminds me of grandma low in a straight truck
3.97*3.55=14.0935
3.35*3.55=11.8925
2.95*3.55=10.4725

0.80*3.55=2.84
0.68*3.55=2.414
0.63*3.55=2.2365

So you’re talking a HUGE reduction in MPH in 1st with a 3.55.... thats not to say you can’t mimic a V8 trans simply by using a higher (numerically lower) rear gear

3.97*2.73=10.8381 ...... a pretty darn desireable ratio really
0.80*2.73=2.184 Again not half bad — tolerable for sure.

A 2.73 or a 3.08 pairs VERY favorably with a 4 cyl trans. You just can’t forget yourself and drop the hammer or you’ll be walking home!

The 4cyl trans are not rated for a ton of power. It’s a time bomb. These early 4 cyl gear sets are the weak link. If the car ever catches traction the trans will likely let go. 4th is a direct input/output shaft link and by far the strongest “gear”

To install there are input shaft length and therefore bellhousing things to consider with the V6 T5s

Strength and install details on 94-98 and 99-04 T5’s have been discussed before on here. The details escape me. I’ll leave it to others to comment on the 94-98 V6 cars and 99-04 cars that had a manual transmission

helpful articles:
http://www.britishv8.org/articles/bo...t5-id-tags.htm

or If the tag is MIA try this
http://www.pro-forceperformance.com/...tification.htm

[wraithracing]

I personally wouldn't even attempt to use a 4cyl T5 behind a V8. The internal ratios are all wrong for the higher torque of a 5.0/302.

Apparently the V6 T5 of the 94-04 cars is very similar to the earlier V8 T5, but again I have never tried it myself. The other issue that you will need/want to address with the later model trans is the lack of mechanical speedo gear inside the transmission. It can be addressed without a lot of work, but just be aware you will have to do something otherwise you will need to run an electronic speedometer. Good Luck!

[erratic50]

Agreed -- 4 cyl trans behind a V8 is a ticking time bomb. Better get towing insurance.

There are guys who have done the 96+ V6 T5 swap into a fox. They ended up with quite the Frankenstein to make it all work.

96+ V6 bellhousing
11" F150 clutch and 50 oz imbalance 164 tooth flywheel
starter with head that's compatible with the 164 tooth flywheel
etc

I advised against doing it the first time it was discussed. I still don't like the idea now mainly because when you cobble something together its hard to talk someone into working on it down the road. Also hard to even remember WHAT parts you need to buy to service it.....

[NAVYCAT]

Thats true, im going to the local pick a part tomorrow to see if I can find a 86-95 5 spd

[wraithracing]

I assume your parts car is an automatic or doesn't have a transmission. Is that correct?

[meezy2]

I'm in the middle of trying to ditch my SROD, and I'm shopping for a t5. From what I've read the only change that needs to be made is the input shaft, provided you use a fox t5 bell housing. From what I gather you only need to mess with the flywheel when you try and use the sn95 bell housing because the starter wont engaged the flywheel. Using a sn95 bell housing also pushes the shiftier back and you need to cut more of the floor out. My plan was to get a 94-04 V6 t5, 83-93 foxbody input shaft, and 83-93 foxbody t5 bell housing. Hopefully I can confirm that soon.

[Broncojunkie]

If you can run the longer input shaft, the t5 will probably fit better. There's a few things that come into play.... solid/lower motor mounts and aftermarket shifter bases. The two together will likely cause interference toward the front of the floor opening. You probably won't have to cut it, but you'll most likely have a heck of a time trying to get to the front shifter base bolts if you're using the shorter fox length input shaft. In my opinion, the fox length was a bit too short. The slightly longer shaft should set the shifter back where it needs to be. I've never heard of anyone having to trim the rear sheet metal with the longer shaft. There are multiple ways to use the longer shaft. 94-95 gt bellhousing with 10.5" clutch and flywheel, v6 bell with 11" clutch and flywheel, or fox bell with spacer plate from LMR. I wished I went with the longer shafts on my 88 and 79 pace car. I have everything I need and they'll get switched next time they're apart.

[Broncojunkie]

I'll even go a step further. If you want fox length, send me a 94-95 gt bell and I'll send you a fox bell with matching input shaft and aftermarket steel retainer lol

[xctasy]

Ford made darn sure the V6 ratios were upgraded to the closer V8 spec.


This will work fine if you use the later V6 T5, maybee even the bellhousing. A V6 T5 conversion from a 198-2003 Mustang with a 3.08 posi from a 94-95 is fine, 3.27's, better.

The position of a 5.0 engine is defined by engine motor mounts, which are handed and what year the transmission cross member and floor plan is. For 1981, Ford changed things to suit the T4 (which was 4/5ths a T5, the case was 100% the same) and the T4 was regular production option only on the in line 3.3.For 1982, the floor pan was deepened to improve head room for state troupers using 5.0 2V Fox Stangs. So its hard to be , Um, General with Fords....

The easy trick is to get an early SROD bellhousing, and add a 180 dollar adapter, and use the alter, say, 1998 V6 T5.

Haystack's advice is once again "absolutely" right on the dot for accuracy in his input in at_the_junkyard's V6 T5 swap.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...fit-1980-cobra

Rebuilt and swapped a 2003 V6 Mustang T5. I used the tailhousing, 8 tooth gear, and clip from a 98 vintage T5 and it fit without modification.

Glad it worked out for ya. I want to apologize for my tone earlier in this thread. I was told by a bunch of people that the sn-95 setup wouldn't work at all and I've been called a liar about using it more then once, so im a bit defensive about it. (Btw, my aod driveshaft sat 1/4" further out with the sn-95 length then it did with the aod. At one point i did have a fox and sn-95 t-5 side by side, and i couldn't tell the difference).

Glad it worked out for ya, hope some of my info did help some.

Notes:

1. The floor pan on a Unibody Fox varies a lot, and as ZephyrEFI has found, you can move the engine forward 1/2 to 7/16 on an inch if the rubber isolators are pitched a certain way. They are offset pinned in most combinations. This gives you forward movement or backward movement if you swap the left and right isolator, and that allows you to fit a V6 bell and T5 and stock driveshaft if you pitch the engine forward.


2. Even without the forward pitch, you might get away with a 100% V6 3.8 SN95 trans swap. The tinware in a unibody car is often +/- 9/32 of an inch out in the body shop verses the blueprint dimensions, so despite FoMoCo having some very good reference points, the rest of the floor plan isn't as straight as a die...Ford spot welded everything from port to starboard, and it has an admirals hat miss-close from one side of the car to the other like all welded unibodies.

[NAVYCAT]

I assume your parts car is an automatic or doesn't have a transmission. Is that correct?

Yes it is an auto

[xctasy]

Yes it is an auto

Just be aware, emission compliance for an engine swap is based on the IM test with an automatic transmission, and the original VIN number, and if you pass "the visual" you then have to pass the specs for the sniffer test on the dyno. Your states engine swap figures on the auto 5.0 IM dyno tests being payed-forward from the the 1995 compliance figures, with a reduction for modern oxygenated gas. Adding a 5 speed might make it fail, and then they'll ask questions. If it passes, they won't ask questions.

Adding a manual gearbox to an engine born as an auto 5.0..., technically...


https://www.quora.com/How-difficult-...a-street-legal

.... To make it California street legal, you have to get a BAR sticker that will allow it to pass the visual inspection at a smog testing station.

To get the BAR sticker, you have to prove to the BAR examiner that all of the emissions equipment is as it would have been on a manual-transmission .....from the factory. So, for example, you have to replace the ECU with an ECU from the manual transmission version. There are also some trickier things, like you have to prove that you’ve replicated the same header-flange-to-O2-sensor distance.

It's all doable, just make sure you don't make it difficult for yourself. The IM test paperwork is held in the BAR test records for your donar engine, and they'll know its supposed to be a 4 stage automatic, not a 5 speed manual...