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Thread: Shop heat

  1. #1
    FEP Power Member dagenham's Avatar
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    Default Shop heat

    Ok everyone that lives where we actually have winter and cold weather. I'm looking to see what you have for heat other than a forced air kerosene heater. I'm talking something permanent and safe to be left on to keep a 1000 square foot garage with an 8 foot ceiling at around 50 degrees. Maybe warmer if I'm working all day.
    What do you have and do you like it or hate it and why.
    Last edited by dagenham; 12-23-2018 at 12:49 PM.
    Current Mustangs
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    1985 Saleen #132

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    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Modine Hot Dawg gas feed heater. Plumbed into the garage, has an on/off switch, shut off valve, and a thermostat. I shut off the gas line and the switch during the warmer months. Open up the valve, turn on the switch, then set the thermostat during the colder/winter months. Will keep a 1200 sq/ft garage any temperature I want. I generally set it at 40 degrees if I won't be in the garage for awhile (like the past several months) then I set it to 50 degrees when I plan on being out there every day to every couple of days. When I go work in the garage I turn up the thermostat to usually 60-65 degrees and that is perfect most of the time for normal car work. If I need to paint something I will crank it up to 70 degrees or so. Works really well, can be a bit loud when running, but nothing unbearable. Heats up quickly and will only turn on as needed. If you garage is well insulated then no worse than your house, otherwise it will run more often. I love mine and makes working in the garage during the winter an absolute joy!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  3. #3
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default Yes fire safety is important and things happen no matter how careful one is.

    Heat and fire. Whatever choice install units in a safe spot.

    2x above heater will work fine and they absolutely do bring joy. SE Michigan weather here.
    Family member had similar heater in last garage. Natural gas, stack thru roof, manual thermostat.
    Was a free older unit from a small pet store's back room warehouse.
    Aligned in back corner of garage, safely below ceiling, to blow across toward front opposite corner.
    Was best choice in this case. Chose back of garage to hide stack from view.
    Gas line was run in deep trench under lawn, house meter to garage corner.
    Garage was 30 x 30. Detached, fully insulated 2 x 4 walls, doors, attic.
    T-111 was added to walls, rather than drywall. More resistant to damage from whatever.

    Thermostat set at 50, turned up when working out there. Temp from 50 to 60's within an hour.
    Heater kept everything inside in stable condition fall to spring. Tools, spray cans in cupboards.
    Winter cold not a factor. Sweatshirt or tee in dead of winter if desired. Mid 60's was fine.
    Never was a concern of safety leaving it on, nor were the gas bills. No "wish i would have"s.
    CRT TV and florescent lights worked fine. Was very similar to a heated basement environment.
    Ceiling fans were added to circulate air year round as needed.
    Concrete floor stays cold. Used large rubber mats under cars to keep dampness and chill at bay.

    Another used two large propane cyl tanks and round heater elements. Large garage, cheap insulation.
    Drawback- used up propane fast.
    Last edited by gr79; 12-24-2018 at 12:54 AM.

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    FEP Power Member dagenham's Avatar
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    I figured that's what I'd see being used. I just wanted some input. So keep the posts coming.
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

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    FEP Power Member smitty54's Avatar
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    I had a garage fire last year, so according to my wife, no more flame. I installed a comfort zone 7500 w electric heater which will heat up to 800 sq ft. There is also a 10,000 w unit available. if your garage is insulated, this unit works well. it also has a remote control.
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    Last edited by smitty54; 12-23-2018 at 05:29 PM.
    "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac."
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  6. #6
    FEP Power Member smitty54's Avatar
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    The unit is mounted to the ceiling, so the picture is not orientated as it should be.
    "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac."
    George Carlin, Rest in peace

    Rick
    84 GT Convertible
    68 Cougar XR7
    14 Ford Explorer Limited

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    My first winter, I used a kerosene heater. We get cold in the winter and the heating/cooling for only the times I was working in there created additional condensation.



    I originally intended to upgrade to electric with a blower fan but found I did not have the voltage capability in my detached garage or have easy way to upgrade it so I abandoned that option.



    I then decided to go with natural gas which ultimately was the better and long run cheaper option to use here. I ran the line to my garage myself and had them inspected.




    I also decided to use the Modine HotDawg low profile ceiling mount. My garage is 24' x 26' and I only have eight foot ceilings too but still may rarely need to get my pick up in my garage so had to think smaller/low profile. I had a contractor do the install of the heater. This one vents straight out the roof or you can do a wall vent. For my location I could not. I likely could have done the install myself over a few weekends (maybe) but they had it done in practically one day and was worth the cost. I have since finished insulating my ceiling space to keep the heat in.




    I keep the temperature low when I am not in there (around 8-10°C) and warm it up closer to room temperature to work comfortably on a cold day. It's nice not having cold tools and surfaces to touch

    It can get cool and cold here and I am very happy with this investment. I say do it, you will not be disappointed it you like to be out there in the winter months! The only issue I had I've had with mine is I had to clean the flame sensor rod this fall (year 4). It was having a relight issue when the big door was open and drafty.

  8. #8

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    I would look at the Mr. Cool diy mini split system. I used the hyper heat version in wife's salon and am impressed. It is a heat pump system the can pull heat below -0-. You would also have access in the summer. Granted, it might not be enough in extreme cold but in Spokane, WA it is awesome and cheap to run.

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    FEP Power Member dagenham's Avatar
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    Is the Modine heater available in a propane model. I'm out in the sticks. (Though not far enough most days) There is no natural gas hookup for me
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

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    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    http://www.modinehvac.com/web/produc...-vented-hd.htm

    Infrared heaters. Work good if near work area. Not for space heating. No fumes or CO. Can be hung low with chain or on tripod.
    https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...yABEgKy8fD_BwE
    Last edited by gr79; 12-24-2018 at 01:33 AM.

  11. #11
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dagenham View Post
    Is the Modine heater available in a propane model. I'm out in the sticks. (Though not far enough most days) There is no natural gas hookup for me
    Always double check with your supplier before ordering, but generally the difference between running on propane and natural gas is nothing more than an orifice tube change on the unit or the incoming line. Most heaters can run on either, but again always verify.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  12. #12
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudgepondexpress View Post
    I would look at the Mr. Cool diy mini split system. I used the hyper heat version in wife's salon and am impressed. It is a heat pump system the can pull heat below -0-. You would also have access in the summer. Granted, it might not be enough in extreme cold but in Spokane, WA it is awesome and cheap to run.
    I don't have experience with this specific model, but I am not a huge fan of heat pumps in general. Yes, they do work and in some areas they work pretty well. Although in my experience they seem to work much better at keeping a relative constant temperature, they didn't seem to work well when shut off overnight or for days at a time and then either try to heat up or cool down a space. That's been my experience with them both in commercial and residential applications over the years. Your experience may vary, but I would definitely discuss your planned usage and temperature range with your local vendor/supplier before purchase. Good Luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  13. #13
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    If I were going to run my shop down in TX as a business, then I would seriously consider one of these heaters.

    https://www.energylogic.com/waste-oil-heaters/

    They are definitely expensive initially. There are plenty of options and vendors out there besides this brand, I just used it as an example. If you have access to plenty of waste oil or only need heat for a few weeks/months during the year it could be a huge benefit. I have a 500 gallon tank of used motor oil that could feed one of these heaters for several weeks with my only cost once installed being some electricity for the blower and compressed air. Definitely a serious consideration down in TX where the winters are not cold for long periods and really don't get that cold either. Obviously these heaters work very well even in extreme cold and can keep costs down on your heating bill if you have plenty of waste oil for fuel.

    Probably not the best option for the home garage/workshop, but who knows maybe someone could use one.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

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    We did an addition to the garage this summer and now am just under 1000 sq. ft.. I have a used 90+ efficiency house furnace in the garage and it works very well, has been for years now. I keep the garage at 40 degrees when I'm not out there and it warms up pretty quick when needed. Garage is insulated also with a couple of ceiling fans to move air around.
    '86 GT - weekend driver
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    FEP Power Member Broncojunkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dagenham View Post
    I figured that's what I'd see being used. I just wanted some input. So keep the posts coming.
    I just ordered this heater last night. I have a little over 600 sq ft with 9' 6" ceiling. I just need to insulate my garage door (or replace it).

  16. #16

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    With my garage, the walls and doors are insulated. It is attached, and is generally warmer than outside, but the ceiling is not insulated. What has to happen for that? I've heard you need to add roof vents, but I don't know anything about that. Anyone have a ballpark for what that costs?
    Brad

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    '17 Ford Focus ST
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncojunkie View Post
    I just ordered this heater last night. I have a little over 600 sq ft with 9' 6" ceiling. I just need to insulate my garage door (or replace it).
    I have an older but in good shape wooden door. I insulated it myself with some Styrofoam insulation panelling ("Silverboard").

    Here is a before and after of my door. The first two are the winter I used the kerosene heater and you can see the condensation created from running it and warming up the previously frozen surfaces. It was quite cold out that day too (at least -20°C).





    After putting in the gas heater, I had one winter without attic insulation and you could tell. That was done ASAP before the next winter season as noted above. It's nice and comfortable out there now for a garage.


  18. #18
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrEFI View Post
    With my garage, the walls and doors are insulated. It is attached, and is generally warmer than outside, but the ceiling is not insulated. What has to happen for that? I've heard you need to add roof vents, but I don't know anything about that. Anyone have a ballpark for what that costs?
    You should really have roof vents either way. They allow ventilation of the attic space which helps to remove condensation and excessive heat during the summer months. As for what it costs to insulate, that is hard to say depending on how your attic is built, access. etc. If doing it yourself, you can buy the blow in type of insulation at Home Depot/Lowe's and if you buy enough they will rent you the blower for free, otherwise it will cost you extra for that. Blown in is probably the easiest, quickest, and most pain free. No carrying blankets up into the attic and laying them out. You just need someone down in the garage feeding insulation into the blower machine while another is in the attic controlling the other end. The other factor in cost will be how well do you want to insulate the attic. Most areas that deal with cold winters require somewhere around an R38-R60 and as you get closer to Canada it will be R49-R60. Since you don't have any at this point, that will cost you more than if you were just adding additional to an already insulated attic.

    Oh also in regards to attic vents, you can add the turbine vent style, the simple roof vent, and there are also now ridge/peak vents that may be a better solution if you roof is in good shape and doesn't need new shingles. Good Luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  19. #19
    FEP Power Member Broncojunkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dagenham View Post
    Is the Modine heater available in a propane model. I'm out in the sticks. (Though not far enough most days) There is no natural gas hookup for me
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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    You should really have roof vents either way. They allow ventilation of the attic space which helps to remove condensation and excessive heat during the summer months. As for what it costs to insulate, that is hard to say depending on how your attic is built, access. etc. If doing it yourself, you can buy the blow in type of insulation at Home Depot/Lowe's and if you buy enough they will rent you the blower for free, otherwise it will cost you extra for that. Blown in is probably the easiest, quickest, and most pain free. No carrying blankets up into the attic and laying them out. You just need someone down in the garage feeding insulation into the blower machine while another is in the attic controlling the other end. The other factor in cost will be how well do you want to insulate the attic. Most areas that deal with cold winters require somewhere around an R38-R60 and as you get closer to Canada it will be R49-R60. Since you don't have any at this point, that will cost you more than if you were just adding additional to an already insulated attic.

    Oh also in regards to attic vents, you can add the turbine vent style, the simple roof vent, and there are also now ridge/peak vents that may be a better solution if you roof is in good shape and doesn't need new shingles. Good Luck!
    Thanks. The house was built in '06 and it does have 3 roof vents for the garage, but looking around the neighborhood, it seems like others have more. My neighborhood was built by a hodge-podge of builders though, so it could be just that, or it could be that the people with more are the ones that have heated garages. I also seem to recall from looking into it years ago that there is a need for some type of ventilation in the eaves too. Any thoughts on that? I don't know if that sort of thing is always included in a garage or house build or not. It would be awesome if all I had to do was add insulation in the ceiling and slap a heater up, but these are things I don't know.

    I've also thought about grabbing a window air conditioner and cutting a hole in the garage wall and putting that in too. It does get HOT in the summer here. It's almost as bad as the cold in mid-July for car work!
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  21. #21
    FEP Power Member dagenham's Avatar
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    Well the debate is over. Going to pick up a stoker coal stove. I already burn coal to heat the house and this stove is just the right size for my garage. The good thing about these stoves are they are basically sealed so I not worried about paint or gas fumes if it's just a little bit. A little common sense goes a long way when you have heat like this and I've been around it all my life. This means a decently warm garage all winter now. Yay
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

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    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Forgot about new style coal, pellet, wood stoves.
    Perfect. Same fuel as house. Natural choice in coal mine country.

    Family member's small workshop type wood stove's sides would be orange hot after couple hours.
    Stove and wood were free. Top door was easy loading, but let lots of smoke out when reloading.
    No front door, ash tray on bottom. Basically a 2' x 18" x 3' tall welded steel box with a stack and damper in back.
    Opened the overhead garage door every hour to cool down and change the air.
    Left the service door cracked open pretty much all the time.
    Escaped out there to smoke and party during holidays. Women and kids had the house.
    Maintain and hand wash cars inside when cold out.

  23. #23
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    And also thanks for the post.
    Was time to plug in the Nighthawk CO detector in bedroom.
    No need in summer. Furnace on, yes.
    Good for the garage too.
    Now to find the 9v one i have for the car.

  24. #24
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    12’ baseboard electric heaters work well, FYI

  25. #25
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Never thought about coal since I have never lived anywhere that uses it. Congrats I am sure that will do a great job of heating up your shop.

    Electric heat works just fine, but in my experience the costs can be extremely high especially when using in a less than well insulated space. I still prefer gas heating in most cases. Costs less and heats faster, but obviously you need to consider all safety aspects of using gas. Good Luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

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