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  1. #1

    Default The Latest on My '80

    So, after having my car for sale for several months, I only had one person look at it that was genuinely serious. Unfortunately, he was unable to secure inexpensive long term storage, so he had to pass on it. Since it appears that it's not going anywhere any time soon, I elected to continue doing mechanical work to it. it now has new struts, new shocks, a basically new driveshaft and a partially new power steering system (pump and hoses). The rack, unfortunately, has given me problems. After a lot of searching, I secured a replacement rack (remanufactured) from NPD. My car has a TRW steering rack which, of course, is much harder to find than the Ford rack. I got it installed and tried to bleed it, but it leaked. The rebuilder didn't get a couple of the fittings tight. I didn't notice this right away and wound up overfilling it. I really had a huge mess to clean up! I removed the rack, resealed all the fittings, dumped the excess fluid out of the bellows, got it all cleaned up and, thinking the problem was resolved, reinstalled the rack and tried to bleed it again. Still leaked. Fluid is coming out of the bellows on both sides. Everyone I asked about this said overfilling it shouldn't have hurt it, so I can only surmise that the seals are defective. I removed it, have it boxed up and awaiting pickup from UPS. NPD is exchanging it for me, so I really hope the next one won't have any issues. I may be on here asking questions before I try to bleed the new rack. I had the car at a friend's house and he has a lift, so it was much easier to work on there. It had been out there over two weeks and I didn't want to tie up his space any longer, so now it's in the garage on jack stands. Getting the old rack out wasn't bad at all, but I think that getting the new rack installed may get tricky when I try to get the steering linkage hooked up. Time and patience... Just hope the bleeding process goes off without a hitch. If the next rack leaks, I'm not sure what I'll do. I still have the original rack and I won't give it up for a core until I'm 150% sure I'm in the clear. It leaks too, but not nearly as bad as the new one did, so I could still use it if I had to. Let's hope I'm due for some good luck.

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member Bryan Knebworth's Avatar
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    Do you have any pics of this '80, how much were you asking?

  3. #3
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    Did you have issues getting it bled properly or were you not able to get to that point because of the leaks? I've seen plugs that allow you to connect a vacuum pump to the P/S fluid reservoir to draw air out, but I've never had to resort to such measures...yet.

    There are aftermarket seal kits for your rack that are available if you find the new rack leaks as well. Might be easier for you to just do it right rather than rely on a mass rebuilder. Other option is to swap out the TRW for the Ford rack which I don't think is a big deal.
    '89 XR-7 5 Speed
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  4. #4

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    Hi Bryan. Sorry for the delayed response. There is an ad for my car in the classifieds near the bottom of the second page titled " 1980 Mustang Hatchback - Semi- Survivor Car". There is a comprehensive description and 5 pics which was all I was able to attach. I was asking $6,250 or offer, but with the recent repairs I've done and am currently doing, I've probably put another $600 in it. I need to add up receipts again, see where I'm at and decide what I have to have out of it. Since there doesn't seem to be much interest in it at the moment, my inclination was to hang onto it for a while and possibly do bodywork (repair dings) and paint it later on. All that being said, I also have a '68 Mustang in my garage in pieces that needs to get finished, so if I can sell the '80, the money would help me finish the '68. If you're interested, let me know and I can send you more pics.

  5. #5

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    It's very possible that the leak in the rack I bought could have been my fault. I called Cardone (the rebuilder) and they recommended using a pump to suck the air out if possible. I was told that I want to compress the fluid but not the air. If the air caused too much pressure to build up, it could have pushed fluid past the seals. No way to know now if it was something I did or if the seals were defective.

    So...I was sent a replacement rack yesterday and upon opening the box discovered it was a Ford rack, not a TRW. The rack would bolt up, but I would have to get different hoses as the ports in the Ford rack are larger than the ones in the TRW rack and would also need to change my steering linkage because the shaft is larger. I'm returning it for a refund and am planning on sending my original rack off to have it rebuilt. Before I do this, I was wondering if anyone has ever rebuilt one of these racks. I was looking at it tonight and it isn't obvious to me what I would need to do to get it apart. A seal kit is dramatically cheaper than a rebuild, but since I don't know what I'm doing, I'm thinking that paying for a rebuild will be money well spent. I just want to get this job done without any more issues. I don't want to do anything to mess up my original rack because if I do, then I'm in big trouble.

    .

  6. #6

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    I thought it over an I decided to just ship the rack off and have it rebuilt. It has been drained, cleaned, thoroughly packaged and is ready to go. It will probably be the first week in December before it's back, but perhaps I'll do some cleaning and detailing on the engine and engine compartment before it returns. I'm just taking all of it in stride. Getting upset about it won't get it fixed any faster.

  7. #7
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    I kept the last TRW rack I changed out and had a hard time getting a replacement up here in Canada a few years ago. The first one I got ended up leaking a little out of the input shaft seal. I got “the last” Cardone one in the local parts stores system. It worked and doesn’t leak. I kept the original core.

    I thought of rebuilding also but I think you may need a couple of specialty tools. I found nos seal kits on eBay but never bought.

    The next 79 I am working on seems to have a ford rack already which I didn’t expect as it should have the TRW. If I replace I may as well stick with a Ford as the hoses are changed. I wonder if the pump changed as if I recall the pump “should” be changed too.

    Let us know how the rebuild works because if it’s true these are not available off the shelf anymore others may need to send in too!
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  8. #8

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    When I originally ordered the first rack from National Parts Depot in Florida, they showed 11 in stock. The second one I received was supposed to be a TRW rack but was a Ford rack. Not sure if it was packaged wrong or exactly what the problem was. After this happened, I didn't feel confident that the next rack they would send me would be the correct one either, which is why I elected to return the second one for a full refund and get my original rebuilt. NPD's Florida store is apparently the only location that has the TRW racks. If you wanted to try to order one from them, I'd make a point of having them open the box and verify what they were going to send you. I could have done this, but after the issues I had, I decided it was time for Plan B. I dropped my rack off today at a KOI Auto Parts store and they will ship it off to Cardone. It's going to Texas, so I won't expect to see it back for three weeks. Perhaps they'll have it back to me sooner and I'll be pleasantly surprised. Will let you all know how it goes.

  9. #9

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    The Ford vs TRW rack is new to me. Is there a performance or mechanical difference between the two? I bought my 79 knowing the PS pump leaks however I have not done any analysis and hopefully it’s not the rack too.

  10. #10

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    The Ford rack is a one piece aluminum rack. The TRW rack is a two piece rack. It looks like part of it is aluminum and part is steel, although I'm not sure about that. The ports on the Ford rack are larger than the ones on the TRW rack, so they require different pressure and return hoses. Also, the steering shaft on the Ford rack is larger in diameter than the TRW rack and would require a different steering linkage. The TRW rack was only used a couple years and, from my experience, is harder to find than the Ford rack. I'm not sure if there is a difference in performance or not.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by saleen428 View Post
    The Ford vs TRW rack is new to me. Is there a performance or mechanical difference between the two? I bought my 79 knowing the PS pump leaks however I have not done any analysis and hopefully it’s not the rack too.
    Other functional differences are the TRW are 2.5 turns lock to lock while the Ford racks are 3 turns.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott K View Post
    The Ford rack is a one piece aluminum rack. The TRW rack is a two piece rack. It looks like part of it is aluminum and part is steel, although I'm not sure about that. The ports on the Ford rack are larger than the ones on the TRW rack, so they require different pressure and return hoses. Also, the steering shaft on the Ford rack is larger in diameter than the TRW rack and would require a different steering linkage. The TRW rack was only used a couple years and, from my experience, is harder to find than the Ford rack. I'm not sure if there is a difference in performance or not.
    Thank you for this detail. I will use this when I do my inspection

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME View Post
    Other functional differences are the TRW are 2.5 turns lock to lock while the Ford racks are 3 turns.
    Ok so it has a faster ratio. Wonder how that compares to the 87-93 racks?

  14. #14
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    The Handling package on most Four Eyes put the steering ratio at 15:1 which is @ 2.5 turns lock to lock

    The 87-93 with the handling package also have a 15:1 ratio which is again @ 2.5 turns lock to lock, although some of the later models with more steering limiters will list as @ 2.25 turns lock to lock.

    Just keep in mind the early Four Eyes had the TRW rack and then switch was made to the Ford steering rack. The units a physically different and in most cases getting a rebuilt TRW is more difficult to find.

    This thread here shows the difference. Check out my post #2: http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...k-TRW-and-Ford
    ​Trey

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  15. #15
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    Interesting that it seems that the early 4 eye Mustangs would have the TRW rack, as I have owned several 78 & 79 Fairmonts, and all 5 of the PS cars had the all aluminum Ford PS rack. I don`t know about the early FOX Mustangs, but the early Fairmonts had a common issue with power steering '' morning sickness'', where the steering got very stiff until it warmed up, and would fill the hydraulic system full of aluminum debris, caused from the racks bore getting egg shaped while it wore, causing internal pressure loss. On 3 of my FZs, I replaced the rack and pinion unit with rebuilt MOOG units, which they improved with a steel sleeve, eliminating the worm bore problem. Never any issues after that repair. Maybe see if a local parts store can still get a MOOG rack.
    1978 Fairmont 2 door sedan, 428CJ 4speed. 9.972ET@132.54mph. 1.29 60 foot
    Replaced the FE big block with my 331/4 speed in my Fairmont, best 10.24ET @128 MPH.
    1985 Mustang LX hatchback NHRA Stock Eliminator 302 4 speed best in legal trim 12.31@107 mph, but has gone 11.42@115 with aftermarket intake, carb, and iron Windsor Jr. heads.New for 2012! 331 cube SB Ford, AFR 185 heads, solid flat tappet cam, pump gas; 10.296ET@128.71 mph, 1.37 60 foot.
    1979 Zephyr Z7, all original 302 auto, 2nd owner.

  16. #16

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    After a good 2 1/2 months, my power steering rack replacement is finally at it's conclusion. I got the rebuilt rack back and got it installed last week. Before I installed it, I decided to do some cleaning and painting while I had better access. I repainted the oil pan in place which was a real pain. it it's perfect, but it does look better and matches the paint on the block now. I also repainted the brake booster, wiper motor, steering linkage, undercarriage brace and a good section of the frame. I did have a couple setbacks. While underneath, I discovered the A/C compressor mount which also holds the alternator had a big crack in it. Also, when I removed the wiper motor from the linkage, the bushing that attaches to the arm on the motor apparently popped out and I lost it. I didn't even realize it was gone until I started putting it back together. Made a junkyard run and got a nice mount and wiper linkage for $40. Cleaned and painted the mount and it looks like new. Also cleaned up the linkage and got a rebuild kit for all of the pivot points.

    When it was all put back together and back on the ground. I had it hauled on a rollback to a shop to have the air bled out of the system and filled. After all that I'd been through, I decided I'd have it professionally done so I didn't risk any more issues. I put a new pump on it and it's a little whiny right now, but I've been told by more than one person that this is typical of Ford pumps and as I drive it, the noise should subside. It's currently at a local Firestone to get an alignment and have the emergency brake checked and possibly adjusted. Very happy this episode with the car is just about concluded. I need to dig back into my '68 and start making some serious progress on it.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott K View Post
    I dropped my rack off today at a KOI Auto Parts store and they will ship it off to Cardone. It's going to Texas, so I won't expect to see it back for three weeks. Perhaps they'll have it back to me sooner and I'll be pleasantly surprised. Will let you all know how it goes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott K View Post
    After a good 2 1/2 months, my power steering rack replacement is finally at it's conclusion.
    Scott, Glad it worked out for you. Did the auto parts store ship it out for you? I talked to a couple here and no one had any real information (or drive) to look into sending it for rebuild.

    I see RockAuto notes they have rebuild service also but I am leery to wrap, pack and send myself and the possible added costs versus going through a parts store.

    Lastly, how is it working? The last one I bought over the counter had a bottom fitting leak a little (fixed by a little tightening) and also a leaking input shaft once it was filled. It had to be exchanged.

  18. #18

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    After I got the rack off, I got as much fluid drained out of it as possible, cleaned it up, wrapped the ends that the tie rods screw on to and the steering shaft with rags and taped then on. Also put plenty of paper in the box with it to pad it. Probably more trouble than most people would have gone to but I figured the rebuilder would appreciate it if it didn't arrive with fluid seeping out of the box. Also, since I wasn't sure exactly which parts were being reused and which were being replaced, I wanted to make sure everything was well protected for shipment. The auto parts store took it to UPS for me and shipped it off. The total cost, including shipping both ways, was $191 and change.

    So far, everything is good. There are no leaks which is a big relief, but I really haven't had a chance to drive it much yet. The steering system is all pretty much brand new and it's been realigned, but now I've encountered yet another problem, two actually. I decided to have the parking brake adjusted and was told that all that was necessary was to adjust the drums. Well, apparently they were over-adjusted. My car is notoriously cold-natured and it takes a while for it to warm up to the point that I can put it in gear without the engine stalling, especially in colder weather. I needed to move it back a couple feet in the driveway, so I just decided it would be quicker to push it and when I did, I noticed that it pushed hard. So then, I tried to push it forward and I couldn't. I wound up taking the rear wheels off to see what was going on. I was able to get the drum of the driver's side and get it so it would turn more freely. Then I tried to do the same with the passenger side drum and that was a different story. I can't get it off to save my life and even though I can get a hold of it on both sides and wiggle it, it isn't going anywhere. I know sometimes the inside of the drum can get a ridge built up on it, so that may be the problem. I tried to push in on the adjusting plate to get it away from the star wheel so I could back it off, but have not been successful so far. I know that a few whacks with a large hammer is also necessary sometimes to free a stuck drum. I feel confident that I can get it apart. It's just going to take time and patience. My vacation is over, so it will be a project for this weekend. The thought occurred to me that the parking brake cables may not be working properly and may be due for replacement as well.

    The other problem was that when I drove it home from Firestone, I had the lights, wipers and defroster on and noticed that the amps gauge was leaning a little toward the discharge side. I'm hoping that the belts just need to be tightened a little more and that will correct the problem. If not, then I'll try a new voltage regulator (mine appears to be original) and if that doesn't fix it, then it may be time for a new alternator (I believe it's also be original). Gotta love old cars.

  19. #19

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    With the help of a friend, the stuck drum was removed today, but we had to get pretty aggressive with it. We got it apart but dinged up the brake shoes a little and bent one of the pins that holds the shoes on. I've never had that much trouble getting a drum off in my life. I had already decided I was going to replace the hardware and have decided to replace the shoes as well. I could have reused them, but for no more than what they cost, I figured I might as well replace them. I was hoping I could save the drums, but I had them checked and if they were turned, they'd be at their outer limits, so they're getting replaced. I also noticed that the wheel cylinder on the passenger side was leaking a little. That was the side we had to get violent with, so we could have damaged it getting the drum off. The fluid looks very fresh. So, it's getting two new wheel cylinders. I really hated to be that aggressive with the car, but it was really stuck and we didn't have a choice. The brakes were so tight that I could see the outline of one of the pads on the inside of the drum! Ridiculous. Desperately sorry I had the brakes adjusted now because this is going to cost me over $140 for all of the new parts and that doesn't include the cables which also may need to be replaced. I'm going to soak them with PB Blaster and see if I can get them to work better before I go to the expense of buying new ones. Little by little, the car is getting rebuilt. I'd better start driving the wheels off of it, because it's a cinch I won't get what I've invested in it back out of it.

  20. #20

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    It took all afternoon, but I managed to get the brake work done. Still have to bleed them, but the worst part of the job is over. I owe Firestone an apology. Even though they adjusted the brakes too tight, it was my fault that the passenger side drum was so hard to get off. I thought that you turned the adjuster downward to tighten them and upward to loosen them. Found out that it was just the opposite (oops). It's no bad thing that I had to do this work. On closer inspection, the leaky wheel cylinder had been leaking for a while, so it was a good idea to replace them. It was only one that was leaking, but I think it's best practice when doing brake and even suspension work to replace both sides. The drums were at there outer limits as well and none of the hardware was looking great. The shoes got a little nicked up and I was afraid that I had created weak spots that could develop cracks over time, so since I was replacing everything else, I figured I might as well replace them. I think new brake cables and hoses will be in order, but that will have to wait until Spring. We had temps in the 50's and sun here this weekend, so I was fortunate that I could get it all done today. The garage is full of Mustangs, so I had to work in the driveway. After the brakes are bled and the belts are adjusted, the car is going to get cleaned up and get the cover put on it and that's going to be all for a while.

  21. #21
    FEP Member SECESH's Avatar
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    Ahh, memories. I recall my '80 sick cylinder was a cold natured critter, and it didn't need a very cold ambient temperature to get it to perform its little death scene.
    With it running check your voltage with a meter to see what it is. We've had to replace a connector on the larger wire coming from the alternator on both of our cars. Bridge that circuit with the meter in DC, if the connection is bad you'll get significant voltage showing on the meter.
    Married to the same Mustang since 03/29/82

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