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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by zak View Post
    Coupe of things to think about - the TAB/TAD solenoids on the fender apron (drivers side, at least on a 5.0 CFI) can dry rot out, not set a code, and fail to control air injection properly resulting in some symptoms you list. As another poster mentioned, PIP can be bad, not hard to R&R. Finally, the bearings in the distributer could be bad, pull it and see if there is play.
    gonna devise a way to maybe bypass the TAB/TAD, probably just plug the vacuum lines and go from there. also gonna drop the Y-pipe if i can borrow a friend's low-pro floor jack. maybe replace it for the one we have laying around.
    Ray

    1986 Mustang "Frankenstang" '03 IRS 3.8 CFI
    1997 Crown Victoria, partially Grand Marquis

  2. #102
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    In addition to MattJ, and anyone named Zak, or emery..something, or JCook, or Haystack and et al , another person to check with is Ukravit.

    The issue is small reference voltages not showing through, so the lines of code have the EECIV clicking through its boolean loop of "do if true" conditional statements or commands. Like a silent warrior, it'll loop through the taught process.

    The fault codes are not a litany list wrap sheet, but show the first misdomenor in terms of what the exceutable process is, and they are just flags.

    All EEC systems were design not around Electronic Engine Control, but more Electronic Emissions Conferance. The AIR, EGR, 3.8 CFi only IAC and the sensors related to them attempt to let the control systems do the job without interfering. The purge cylce, the TAB/TAD, the throttle pull downs, the VOTM (which I don't think you have) , they are all supposed to work with minimal intervention. If the EGR or Up or Downstream AIR systems aren't being run properly, the EECIV then tries to interject on the info from the MAP sensor and it decides if the O2 sensor input is to be used or not. That 3.8 CFi EGR system can influence the other systems. Ford decided not to trip a fault light (MIL/DTC bulb is not a Malfunction Indicator or Diagnostic Trouble Code generator the way it was on the Check Engine Light of 1987 onwards EFi's)



    The difficulty you are experiencing is from the downgrade from the nominal 9 to 14.7 volt references. This happened with the EECIV CFi. In the first years from 1980 to 1984 on the bigger S (Sterling) Fox cars, it stayed with EECIII so the California or High Altitude Cars could pass CA or Collarado Emissions. The EECIV has a down graded, voltage to suit the very sensitive Motorolla/Intel chip.

    Very specifically, Ak Miller in the Impco Gas appilciation information for Ford vehicles noted in 1984 that the small 5 volt nominal reference voltages the EECIV uses create a lot of problems tracing or polling faults.

    Ukravit nailed it here. The old style Breakout Box with the CFi EECIV overlay allows you to "probe the main EEC connector"; in fact, it risks creating another bunch of circuit problems just to do so.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...90#post1892990
    Quote Originally Posted by ukravit View Post
    The Zephyr had been running great then out of the blue the car stopped running. I shut it off to get gas and it refused to start again, so I had it towed home.
    The fuel pump was not running. I used the internet to research solutions with no results.
    Everything I checked tested good, the EEC relay had power and it made it to the fuel pump relay it was looking like a bad computer.
    No signal to energize the fuel pump relay.
    Then on an F150 forum there as a tip, if you run a wire from terminal 2 on the self test connector to ground and the pump works the relays are good. If you connect terminal 2 to terminal 6 on the connector and it works you have a bad computer, if it doesnt then the ground wires on pins 40 and 60 on the computer are not grounded.
    I checked mine with my meter at the connector and they went right to ground. The sockets on the connector to the computer for pins 40 and 60 had opened up just enough to not make good contact with the pins. I closed up the sockets on the connector side and put it back together and it started right up.
    While I had the connector opened I checked and resized every socket that looked suspect, might be my imagination but it seems smoother now.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrEFI
    Man, that is frustrating. But great job tracking it down! This was right at your EEC connector?


    Quote Originally Posted by ukravit
    Yes. When I checked everything with the connector on probing from the back it was good.
    When I used to repair radar systems in the army most of the cables would fail at the connector so I used my "built by the lowest bidder" mentality and gave everything a hard look.

    In DH's Mustang McLaren M81, the same thing happened with the TAB/TAD solenoids, which were pre EECI, EECII, EECIII, and not even MCU. They link to the vacuum trap inside the HVAC system, which is common for all six cylinder Fords world wide from Australia and North America from 1979 on, the exception was the Taunus/Cortina/Euro Capri and Euro Granada. The HVAC system is used as a vacuum source reserviour. Normally, its a leak at this or the early Altitude Compensator leak somewhere. On the 86, the CFi's sensors are the same as the 1980 Turbo 2.3 Mustang and Capri, only they are controlled internally by the EECIV instead of VOTM.

  3. #103
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    In M81McLaren's post,

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-years!/page17

    even his 1980 had the same TAB/TAD hardware.

    .......I also found the RT side SOLV (Air con related per gr79) has no vacuum connected at all (appears to have a single port currently open to air). Looks like it is supposed to go to a split just before the TVS per the VECI diagram.

    With the few fixes made so far to the spark retard routing and line fixes today I will run a new test tomorrow and see if any changes have occurred. Maybe my high warm idle will be fixed. I'm feeling more confident in tracing, testing, and adjusting (mixture, timing etc.) thanks to you all here sharing knowledge, my carb guy confirming a few things, and my just investing time with lots of reading and learning.
    Happy Friday!

    Jack Hidley noted that DH's M81 McLaren was missing a proper line connection detail, and he helped got it sorted.

    There was a large vacuum line (Light Green or Turquoise stripe) running from the firewall RT corner area to the large A/CL CWM port which wasn't clearly annotated on the VECI diagram.




    The stripe designates something specific. At the split valve one goes in the firewall behind the glove box somewhere while the other one disappears behind the fender.

    If its wrongly hooked up, another subsystem won't work, and it triggers other actions instead of the planned ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
    The line running to the passenger side fender and through the firewall to the HVAC is from manifold vacuum to the HVAC controls. The line teed to go under the fender as there is normally a vacuum reservoir there to provide a constant source for the HVAC controls. The Tee fitting probably has a check valve in it so that nothing else can pull vacuum from this reservoir except HVAC valves from under the dash.
    Jack noted that the 1979 Ford engineers had listed the Fresh Air line as a connection to the HVAC system.



    You need to check that. gr79 and WalkingTall on page 5 of his 86 Mustang Vert "Nutters Bypass" 500 cfm Carbed CFi 3.8 have given the full manual links on the individual parts, which deserve a further look.

  4. #104
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    On Mikes wip, the EGR played up, very typical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    The next hiccup (I feel like trademarking/copyrighting/coining/whatever that phrase), in the never-ending saga of hiccups that is EEC-IV:



    These sensors are supposed to have, through their range of movement to sensing and relaying the EGR valve's diaphragm's position, as a variable resistor, 5500Ω to 100Ω. Mine has exactly 4.85Ω of resistance no matter where it's stem is, lol. This has been causing the car to run like a can of smashed a$$holes. At first I presumed some bad gas (but 4 different loads (2 premium 91-octane) of ten bucks thrown in? I don't think so), and have retarded the ignition timing 2 twice to 6 BTDC, to no avail. It's also got a somewhat rough idle and off-idle, and pinging/detonation with from anywhere between 20-50% throttle application upon normal acceleration, but only at the lightest of loading, at the top of each gear just prior to shifting. Welcome to EEC land, where I'm suggesting, the ecm's response is to open the EGR when it should be nearly or always closed, and vice versa. That's bass-ackwards, and no, I'm not wasting one more dime on trying to get it to cooperate.

    Thankfully, I have the cure for the hiccups. None of any kind of the above kind of inverted-universe BS will go on with carburetion and Duraspark. Soon.



    so he did a Page 5 Black Spagetti Removal.



    His layout is the same as yours. Sadly, the 2.3 MCU 1-BBL and 3.8 CFi are forgotten about engine combo's you don't see anywhere on the 8 pages of 2.3 Turbo and 5.0 EFi only posts. Good VECI and EVTM shots aren't easy to get.

    http://mustangattitude.com/mustang/1986cars1.shtml.


    The 86's used an 1986 only Port EFi 5.0 style Vacumm manifold on the DS driver side firewall, so you have to trace a leak if the SOLV's aren't working properly.

    Due to the tall deck height of the 3.8 (9.22" instead of 8.206"), FoMoCo were forced to section the SOLV's TAB/TAD to the drivers Outside Fender wall.

    As I understand it, the 5.0 EFi for 86, for example 86Stripper,
    the system is mounted outside the Passenger Side fender wall via a big wire/vac cluster to the parts.




    I'm not sure if your system is the same.


    Quote Originally Posted by 86Stripper View Post
    Vacuum Hose Assembly

    This is the vacuum hose assembly that goes from the vacuum source at the firewall to the switch assembly and then to the Divertor Valve and the Bypass Valve. The blue device on the source end is the check valve. If you look closely at the left plug for the vacuum switches at the bottom of the photo you will see a T fitting. This is where the vacuum canister hose attaches.




    I don't have any pictures of the vacuum canister. If I have the inner fender panel off one day I'll take a photo.


    That is all I can think of for now. Let me know if you need anything else.

    This is Mikes, yours should be the same.

    It may have a big old 1978-1979 3.3 Liter Ford Six vac amplifiyer mounted outside the Drivers Side fender wall via a big wire/vac cluster to the parts.



    The rest looks the same as the 5.0 Port EFi placement.

    The whole kit includes the TAB/TAD in the box on the far right of the screen, and the wire to the control SOL's are the same place






    Due to the condensor hose, and noise of the clicking parts, it was shifted in 1983 to a spot where it was with the 86.

    The CFi was the lynch pin to pave the way to the Port EFi postions, 95% of everything TAB/TAD and AIR and EECIV and fuel pump wise was all there.

    Mikethe80sFanatic



    Make sure the HVAC and solenoids work first, then try the stock combination. IMHO, removing anything TAB/TAD related it won't answer your fault codes dilema.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by zak View Post
    On your spare engine, if I recall correctly the later V6 heads e,g, Windstar/Freestar/2001+ Mustang had better combustion chamber shapes and port shapes, sort of after the GT40P redesign. People swap the 4.2 liter crank in from the truck V6, probably too large a change for CFI but the heads should work. There was a place in upstate NY that was practically giving away NOS completely assembled late V6 cylinder heads, will see if I still have their info.
    A good thought, but the later MPFI heads have ports machined in them to accept the individual fuel injectors that the earlier CFI/carb heads do not have.
    '89 XR-7 5 Speed
    '95 SC 5 Speed
    '91 Crown Vic P72 351W
    '97 Thunderbird
    '85 Ford LTD Squire

  6. #106

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    unbolted the driver side of the Y-pipe, couldnt get to the other side because i couldn't find my swivel socket, that and i'm not sure how i'm gonna really get to that side.

    anyways.

    it ran! and i could give it gas!
    Ray

    1986 Mustang "Frankenstang" '03 IRS 3.8 CFI
    1997 Crown Victoria, partially Grand Marquis

  7. #107

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    holy shatner. Rat in the tail pipe? seriously?
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers
    GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721, K&N filter in stock dual snorkel,
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace
    3.73 rear. CS5 225/60/15 on 10 holes (street) Federal 595 rs-rr 225/45/15 on 10 holes (race)
    Everything else stock and fully functional.

  8. #108

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    either that or the cats were clogged.
    Ray

    1986 Mustang "Frankenstang" '03 IRS 3.8 CFI
    1997 Crown Victoria, partially Grand Marquis

  9. #109

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    Yeah, nobody ever believes somebody elses cats are clogged so I just go with a rat in the tail pipe.
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers
    GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721, K&N filter in stock dual snorkel,
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace
    3.73 rear. CS5 225/60/15 on 10 holes (street) Federal 595 rs-rr 225/45/15 on 10 holes (race)
    Everything else stock and fully functional.

  10. #110

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    just got around to taking the rest of the exhaust off, the cats were absolutely disintegrated.

    but man. I forgot how nice this was to drive!

    if anyone wants to hear the 3.8 with open headers i can link the video later.
    Ray

    1986 Mustang "Frankenstang" '03 IRS 3.8 CFI
    1997 Crown Victoria, partially Grand Marquis

  11. #111

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    Nice. Well, hopefully it is running top notch now that you have corrected all of the gremlins that were not the problem...
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers
    GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721, K&N filter in stock dual snorkel,
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace
    3.73 rear. CS5 225/60/15 on 10 holes (street) Federal 595 rs-rr 225/45/15 on 10 holes (race)
    Everything else stock and fully functional.

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