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  1. #1
    FEP Power Member dagenham's Avatar
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    Default Price quote for paint supplies

    I went to my local auto paint supplier yesterday to get a price for the paint for a 1968 Mustang coupe I've been restoring. I was pretty close to the figure I guessed at. I figured about $1000 for everything. Looks like I was short by about $200. Now I just have to get it and get it painted before the weather gets to the point I cant.
    That is for 2 more quarts of high build primer, 1-1/2 gallons of base coat, 2 gallons of clear, all the activators and reducers, and a Upol brand spray on bedliner kit for the underside and outer side of the inner fenders.
    It didnt include black base for the engine compartment or the interior paint.
    The brand is PPG Shop Line. Yeah I know some of you guys dont like it but I'm a diy guy and this is "affordable" paint for me. Ive used it on three other cars in the past and like it, so.....
    Last edited by dagenham; 09-25-2018 at 09:23 PM.
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

  2. #2
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Are the 1.5 gallons of base coat and 2 gallons of clear sprayable amounts or unreduced/un-activated amounts?

    I ask because that seems like more paint than needed for a 1968 Mustang coupe. I am not familiar with the PPG Shop line, so not 100% on mixing ratios, etc. but if both of those amounts are before mixing, they seem very high IMHO.

    I generally can paint virtually any Mustang with 1 gallon base coat before mixing. Same with Clear, generally 1 gallon is plenty. The 1971 Mustang I just sprayed was only 1 gallon of base and 1 gallon of clear, although there was very little left over, but the car was completely blown apart and honestly the 71-73 Mustangs are a bit larger than the earlier cars and even the Foxes. Good Luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  3. #3
    FEP Super Member mmb617's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    I generally can paint virtually any Mustang with 1 gallon base coat before mixing. Same with Clear, generally 1 gallon is plenty.

    This discussion made me curious so I went back and looked at my records from when I painted my car in 2005. I used the PPG omni system which I don't know if that even exists anymore, but I had one gallon of base and one gallon of clear unmixed and had some leftover of each.

    Just to show how pricing has changed over those 13 years, my total paint bill was $350 and that includes primer, sealer, base and clear plus all needed reducers, hardeners, thinners and even the wax and grease remover. The gallon of red base coat was only $70. Prices have definitely gone up a bit.
    408/T5/3.73's

    We're not fast racers, we're more what's known as half fast racers.

  4. #4
    FEP Power Member dagenham's Avatar
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    That is unreduced. It probably is a little more than I need but I did my SVO in it and had zero left from a gallon and the car was not apart. Of course it didn't help any that I spilled a whole gun cup full on the floor
    Maybe overkill but I would rather have to much than not enough since it is metallic.
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

  5. #5
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmb617 View Post
    This discussion made me curious so I went back and looked at my records from when I painted my car in 2005. I used the PPG omni system which I don't know if that even exists anymore, but I had one gallon of base and one gallon of clear unmixed and had some leftover of each.

    Just to show how pricing has changed over those 13 years, my total paint bill was $350 and that includes primer, sealer, base and clear plus all needed reducers, hardeners, thinners and even the wax and grease remover. The gallon of red base coat was only $70. Prices have definitely gone up a bit.
    That's an understatement! I found it interesting that the reasoning before was that the pricing increased due to oil prices going thru the roof! But amazingly after oil prices dropped, the paint prices stayed the same . . . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by dagenham View Post
    That is unreduced. It probably is a little more than I need but I did my SVO in it and had zero left from a gallon and the car was not apart. Of course it didn't help any that I spilled a whole gun cup full on the floor
    Maybe overkill but I would rather have to much than not enough since it is metallic.
    I understand. I always try to buy "extra" paint when shooting a car just to be safe. I just have never really needed more than a single gallon for a Fox, unless something major went wrong. Good Luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  6. #6
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmb617 View Post
    This discussion made me curious so I went back and looked at my records from when I painted my car in 2005. I used the PPG omni system which I don't know if that even exists anymore, but I had one gallon of base and one gallon of clear unmixed and had some leftover of each.

    Just to show how pricing has changed over those 13 years, my total paint bill was $350 and that includes primer, sealer, base and clear plus all needed reducers, hardeners, thinners and even the wax and grease remover. The gallon of red base coat was only $70. Prices have definitely gone up a bit.
    That is what the price should be now. Its an 'artificial' rise in costs. Whatever they can get away with. Hide the real picture.
    House paint: same thing. Does not last longer no matter what they say, costs 4x more. Who wants 20y paint when changing colors per mood or redesign?
    Auto clear coat wears out just like paint used to. A wear item. Yet they keep trying to reinvent the (color) wheel.
    Paint companies know if spray paint was raised same percent say 3x to 10.00/can, sales would spiral down quickly. So they left that alone.
    Water based? Did they not save on deleting solvents for water? And harder to use. Catalysts, equipment.

    The have every excuse in the book, but real numbers don't lie. Business operate different from the steady business model of the past.
    Since wall street/housing market crash 2008 companies have kept higher profits and pay shareholders more rather than readjust prices to prior levels before 2008.
    We lose and have since then on most every product, including the cost of cars. Cell phones are a big part of the smoke and mirrors game.

    Consumer was king. Now its take it or leave it like our product or not we are now only game in town due to quiet mergers over the years.
    A lot of business choose to keep any gain in productivity and material cost savings, rather than pass savings on to customers.

  7. #7
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    Reason for price hike:

    CAUSE THEY CAN, YOU WILL PAY IT AND THEY KNOW IT!
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  8. #8
    FEP Senior Member Matt J's Avatar
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    The cost of paint has made it virtually impossible to restore a car nowadays and keep it roughly within what it's worth finished. I've been looking at cars to replace my Mustang that got wrecked a few years ago, and it's to the point now that if I see a car that needs paint I move on from it. A decent paint job will cost $4k-$5k and a good one costs twice that. I've looked at a few decent fox Mustangs and decided against them because of it. To finish the car costs more than the car is worth, not even including what I'd have to pay for it. I see folks all the time on this forum asking what their car is worth, and the reality is a finished one is worth about $6k for a very good driver quality car. If it needs paint, the thing isn't worth much more than $2k to me, and who wants to sell a good solid driver for that? It's creating a stall in the market, cars are worth more than you can get for them because it's just so expensive to restore one now.

    It's very frustrating.

    It's also a part of the real popularity of old trucks now, you can drive them as they are and not have to paint them.

  9. #9
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt J View Post
    The cost of paint has made it virtually impossible to restore a car nowadays and keep it roughly within what it's worth finished.
    All Cars? NO

    Cheap Cars? YES!

    It's ALWAYS been that way!

    Our cars are CHEAP CARS!

    Face facts. Most Foxbody Mustangs that need restoration could be "Free to Good Home" and you still cannot afford to "RESTORE" the car without being way upside down money wise in the car when completed. Forget counting ANY of your labor!

    Ever heard of the way overused term of "A Labor Of Love"?

    Well that means FREE LABOR!

    Terry Michaelis of Pro-Team Corvette sales always said "Buy Cosmetics" versus "Mechanics". Buy the car with the best "Cosmetics" that you can afford. It is much easier to accurately access the mechanical costs of repair than the cosmetic costs of repair. It's also quicker for mechanical repair than cosmetic repair as EVERYONE that fools with "Old Cars" can do mechanics. It's that "Paint, Bodywork and Upholstery Work & Labor" that most people have to Pay For to have completed and therefore Wait On to complete their project.

    Like I always say when your waiting on other people to do their job you are a "Dollar Waiting On A Nickel"!
    Last edited by vintageracer; 09-27-2018 at 10:23 AM.
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  10. #10
    FEP Senior Member Matt J's Avatar
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    I agree with you to a point, that fact is when I was a kid in the late 70s and early 80s, 60's era Mustangs were cheap cars, and they were all over the place with shiny paint jobs and owned by teenage drivers. Even as a teenager in the 80s, I had plenty of friends with old muscle cars that they'd fixed up. The point is, paint has become so preposterously expensive that you really can't restore anything but a high-dollar vehicle anymore. And for me, if I have to be $20k into a car, it's no longer a hobby and it's now an investment, and that's no fun for me.

    But yeah, your point about the fox Mustangs being cheap is well taken, that's why I've been forced to move on from them. Just can't drive one with bad paint, it's not classic enough to be able to pull it off. To paint one is too cost prohibitive to make any sense (love will get you so far, but at some point you're going to have to sell it).

    I guess I could have one wrapped.

  11. #11
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    This thread has derailed a bit from Dagenham's original intentions. I don't want to add to that, but would like to make a couple of points in response to MattJ and Vintageracer's posts.

    Both of you make very valid points and unfortunately there is a lot of truth in that Foxes don't bring the BIG $$ in most cases. There are exceptions, but overall most of these cars are $6-$12K cars at best in great condition. I don't want to get into an argument over value of the Foxes, but lets just agree that the majority of these cars are not worth putting a $5K-10K paint job on and leave it at that.

    With that said, IF you have the skills and desires you can definitely find ways to repaint these cars for less $$, but it will take labor and time on your behalf. If you don't have the skills, tools, or desires then things get a lot more complicated. Honestly I learned how to do what I do because I couldn't afford to pay someone else to do it. That includes Paint & Body as well as Mechanical, I think many of us are/were in the same boat.

    As shown by Dagenham's original post, you can purchase all the supplies to repaint one of the cars for $1000 +/- If you are Ok with using a non original color you can often do it for less than $1K. Eastwood, Summit Racing, and others offer their paint lines that are decent paints for often much less than your Big name brands, no they are generally not a color match for our Foxes, but they can be close or something different if you like. They are decent paints in my experience and overall are a good option for the budget buyer.

    I do recommend if you are buying a Fox that will need paint, make sure the body work and any rust repair is minimal at best. Once you get into major panel replacement or rust repairs honestly the Foxes can become a Money Pit that you will never recover from in most cases. My 82 RS is a prime example! If I didn't have virtually all the needed parts for rust repair, the shop to do them in, and the skills/ability there is no way I would have even considered saving it. The RS is a labor of love because, I hate to see the car parted out or crushed, but was truly a lost cause! To pay a shop to do the repair work, repaint, etc. would easily be $15K just for the body and that doesn't include the need for a full interior restoration, nor the drivetrain.

    Unfortunately the paint of the 80's was not great, so virtually every Fox that didn't spend its life in garage needs paint work these days. So its hard to find one that doesn't in my experience. I regards to wrapping a car, that is a great option and one that can save some $$, although IMHO it's not a permanent fix as the wraps to wear and deteriorate over time. Most wraps can easily last 3-7 years with care, so definitely an option, but be prepared as the cost for a whole car generally starts at $1K and goes up from there. Again if you are willing to learn the skills and do the work yourself you can often save at least 50% of the costs doing it yourself.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  12. #12
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    My 82 RS is a prime example! If I didn't have virtually all the needed parts for rust repair, the shop to do them in, and the skills/ability there is no way I would have even considered saving it. The RS is a labor of love because, I hate to see the car parted out or crushed, but was truly a lost cause! To pay a shop to do the repair work, repaint, etc. would easily be $15K just for the body and that doesn't include the need for a full interior restoration, nor the drivetrain.

    Most wraps can easily last 3-7 years with care, so definitely an option, but be prepared as the cost for a whole car generally starts at $1K and goes up from there.
    There's that "Labor Of Love" thingy again the means FREE LABOR!!!

    Here is a picture of my 1990 Featherlite enclosed car trailer that was "WRAPPED" 15 years ago in 2003 and has sat outside every day since. "I" think it still looks pretty darn GOOD and "I" know it looks a Helloflot better than it did when originally white before the wrap!

    A "Wrap" can be completed in 2 days. Body shop "JAIL" for a paint job at a professional shop, your relatives garage or your own garage can last a lifetime!

    Remember the technology and product longevity in "Wrap" industry has improved greatly since this trailer was "Wrapped". As I have said many times.

    My next paint job will be a "WRAP"!
    Last edited by vintageracer; 09-27-2018 at 10:20 AM.
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  13. #13
    FEP Power Member plumkrazy's Avatar
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    IF you still think a Gallon is not enough, buy 1 quart extra and mix it with the gallon so the colors are the same. When I was painting cars at school I used a gallon and the JDA 502 gun and still had paint left over
    1 of 3 1985 Silver Grand Prix Capr's
    My first New car and still own 1986 Capri

  14. #14
    FEP Power Member dagenham's Avatar
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    This thread certainly got derailed didn't it.
    First thing to remember is that here I'm talking about a 1968 Mustang not a 1988 mustang. In today's market certainly a difference in "value". I use that word loosely as any car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If your to worried about your own labor time than you need to find a different hobby. I do this because I enjoy doing it. People at shows ask me all the time who paints my cars for me and seemed amazed when I tell them I do in my garage. Love for the cars and satisfaction knowing I did it myself is good enough for me.
    Part of this thread was just me talking but at the same time to put into perspective the reason for what some people on here think paint jobs are so high priced.
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

  15. #15
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vintageracer View Post
    There's that "Labor Of Love" thingy again the means FREE LABOR!!!

    Here is a picture of my 1990 Featherlite enclosed car trailer that was "WRAPPED" 15 years ago in 2003 and has sat outside every day since. "I" think it still looks pretty darn GOOD and "I" know it looks a Helloflot better than it did when originally white before the wrap!

    A "Wrap" can be completed in 2 days. Body shop "JAIL" for a paint job at a professional shop, your relatives garage or your own garage can last a lifetime!

    Remember the technology and product longevity in "Wrap" industry has improved greatly since this trailer was "Wrapped". As I have said many times.

    My next paint job will be a "WRAP"!
    I agree your trailer does look very good. My statement was not to say that wraps CAN'T last longer. Just that most see lifespans of 3-7 years on average. That may be due to more washing, more miles, car washes, etc. Obviously just as with any paint job your mileage may vary. I had plans to wrap my 82 GT, but after realizing how much bodywork was needed and that I still needed to properly seal the car before a wrap, I decided I might as well just paint it since it was going back to black just like original.

    Quote Originally Posted by dagenham View Post
    This thread certainly got derailed didn't it.
    First thing to remember is that here I'm talking about a 1968 Mustang not a 1988 mustang. In today's market certainly a difference in "value". I use that word loosely as any car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If your to worried about your own labor time than you need to find a different hobby. I do this because I enjoy doing it. People at shows ask me all the time who paints my cars for me and seemed amazed when I tell them I do in my garage. Love for the cars and satisfaction knowing I did it myself is good enough for me.
    Part of this thread was just me talking but at the same time to put into perspective the reason for what some people on here think paint jobs are so high priced.
    Sorry wasn't trying to derail your thread, just how things go sometimes. I do completely agree that earlier model Mustangs are generally a better choice for investment than a Fox if that is the way you view vehicle ownership, especially if a full paint job is required.

    I also agree that if you don't have the skills and desire to do much of the work with these types of cars, you might want to seriously consider a different hobby or at least buy the best car you can for the $$ to prevent being upside down in the vehicle. Good Luck with your paint job on your Mustang.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  16. #16
    FEP Super Member webestang's Avatar
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    Both my Foxes were painted with 2 stage Eastwood. The base and clear were 1 gallon with reducer, I got 3 really nice coats out of each. Now that was just the outer surface, I did not paint door jams or under the hood (on the vert yes) or under trunk lid. Cost for paint/clear was around $500.

    Scotty
    1985 Fox Notch 4-banger Ranger tube header Eastwood Royal Blue
    1988 Fox LX 5.0 AOD Vert BBK 170mph speedo Candy Apple Red
    1999 Mustang Coupe V6 Auto Chrome Yellow -Daily Driver.
    Past Pony's.....
    68 Coupe Inline-6 3-Speed-Man. Primer
    78 II Hatch 302 3-Speed-Auto Sunroof Black
    81 4-Eye Coupe 4-Banger 4-Speed-Man. White

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