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  1. #1
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Default Good instructions on proper rotor and brake pad replacement for 84 fox

    Pretty much like title says. I'm looking for a good instructional video or something to help me with proper installation of new rotors and brake pad for my fox. Thought my Haynes repair manual would have something but unless I'm blind its not in there.
    Was looking at this one but people are saying he did not pack bearings right right and did not tourque nut the right way.
    https://youtu.be/7zywHnpQO88
    Last edited by Sask84gt; 09-24-2018 at 06:05 PM.

  2. #2
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    OMG, so many errors!
    Never put bearing surfaces in the dirt.
    Tapping out the grease seal is bad.
    That is not how one greases or repacks wheel bearings. Not to mention the special grease.
    No mention of using new bearings in the new races.
    Definately wrong on tightening the wheel bearing nut. Who taught him?
    Fox Body/3rd Gen MCA Gold Card Judge
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    88 Mclaren Mustang Vert 20K miles, 89 Mustang LX Sport Vert,
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  3. #3
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinK View Post
    OMG, so many errors!
    Never put bearing surfaces in the dirt.
    Tapping out the grease seal is bad.
    That is not how one greases or repacks wheel bearings. Not to mention the special grease.
    No mention of using new bearings in the new races.
    Definately wrong on tightening the wheel bearing nut. Who taught him?
    I have no idea lol. I did some research and know now the proper way to pack a bearing and also tightening the wheel bearing nut. Any suggestions for a good video or instructions to make sure I'm right? You seem to know what not to do lol

  4. #4
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    I have always used the Chiltons manual for the car model. Wheel bearing stuff has not changed since the 60s cars. I never worked on much 50s stuff. With disc brakes, the wheel bearing grease needs to be upgraded to disc brake spec grease. Most will list a Ford spec.

    I also worked in a small shop for several years during college. My boss did not believe in cleaning wheel bearings, just press out the old grease with new. Cleaning wheel bearing allows for dirt to be introduced and people like to blow dry the cleaned bearings with compressed air, allowing them to spin unlubricated (bad).

    Pack the bearings by putting a clamp of grease in the palm of your hand and scrape/ push the grease through the bearing to the other side. Just work your way around. I find this a perfect time to wear vinyl gloves. Coat the outside of the bearing when done.

    Next, coat the bearing races with grease and also fill about half of the inner hub space with grease.

    Install the rear bearing and then the grease seal. Make sure the seal is lubricated too.

    Install the rotor, outer bearing, washer and nut.

    Tighten the nut gently while slowly spinning the rotor. You can use a torque wrench or go until the nut is snug. Next you want to back off the nut 1/8 to 1/4 turn. This allows for expansion when things heat up.

    I like to recheck the bearing after installing the wheel so I will leave the lock nut and cotter pin off. When the wheel is installed and the lug nuts are fairly tight, grab the wheel by the top and bottom and try to rock it. If it moves a lot, tighten the bearing nut slightly. Probably don’t want to eliminate 100% of the play but most of it.

    Install the lock nut, cotter pin and dust cap.

    New rotors often come with the bearing races installed. Just clean and grease them. If you need to remove or install new races, be sure to use a brass punch or the correct bearing press tool.
    Fox Body/3rd Gen MCA Gold Card Judge
    84 SVO 24K miles, 85 Mclaren Capri Vert. 84 GT Turbo Vert.
    88 Mclaren Mustang Vert 20K miles, 89 Mustang LX Sport Vert,
    03 Mach 1 7900 miles, 74 Mustang II, 69 Mustang, 67 Mustang, 07 GT500,
    14 Mustang CS/GT, 15 F150 FTX Tuscany, 16 F250 Crewcab, 67 Tbird 47K miles

  5. #5
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinK View Post
    I have always used the Chiltons manual for the car model. Wheel bearing stuff has not changed since the 60s cars. I never worked on much 50s stuff. With disc brakes, the wheel bearing grease needs to be upgraded to disc brake spec grease. Most will list a Ford spec.

    I also worked in a small shop for several years during college. My boss did not believe in cleaning wheel bearings, just press out the old grease with new. Cleaning wheel bearing allows for dirt to be introduced and people like to blow dry the cleaned bearings with compressed air, allowing them to spin unlubricated (bad).

    Pack the bearings by putting a clamp of grease in the palm of your hand and scrape/ push the grease through the bearing to the other side. Just work your way around. I find this a perfect time to wear vinyl gloves. Coat the outside of the bearing when done.

    Next, coat the bearing races with grease and also fill about half of the inner hub space with grease.

    Install the rear bearing and then the grease seal. Make sure the seal is lubricated too.

    Install the rotor, outer bearing, washer and nut.

    Tighten the nut gently while slowly spinning the rotor. You can use a torque wrench or go until the nut is snug. Next you want to back off the nut 1/8 to 1/4 turn. This allows for expansion when things heat up.

    I like to recheck the bearing after installing the wheel so I will leave the lock nut and cotter pin off. When the wheel is installed and the lug nuts are fairly tight, grab the wheel by the top and bottom and try to rock it. If it moves a lot, tighten the bearing nut slightly. Probably don’t want to eliminate 100% of the play but most of it.

    Install the lock nut, cotter pin and dust cap.

    New rotors often come with the bearing races installed. Just clean and grease them. If you need to remove or install new races, be sure to use a brass punch or the correct bearing press tool.
    Thanks for the info Kevin, appreciated!

  6. #6
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    Kevin's got it right.

    I learned from my Dad as a teenager and also in my first year of apprenticeship. We always cleaned the bearings in solvent before repacking though. We did air dry them too, but never allowed them to spin up.

  7. #7
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Never mastered the knack of greasing the palm thing.
    I use a KD 2775 bearing packer. Quick and 'clean'. Always ready to go.
    Fill with can of Ford spec wb grease.
    Insert bearing, set packer on the ground, and step on the plunger.
    Presses old grease out with new. Wipe old grease off bearing with plastic bag.
    Handle greased bearing with plastic bag like a rag. The ones from the store.
    The bags strangely are attracted to grease and hold it.
    Make good grease wipes. Cheap too.

    Bearings torqued per shop manual procedure w/inch pound torque wrench.
    No guessing. Money saved on DIY brake jobs quickly paid for tools like this.
    Seal puller, bearing packer, large plastic utility tub, ground pads, etc.
    A pvc pipe clean out fitting with cap, as a tool to start rotor inner bearing seal in straight, works great.
    Tap seal with hammer to seat.

    Smearing a little grease on dust cap flange allows it to be installed one smack with palm of hand and no dents.
    Next time it can be easily removed prying with a screwdriver.
    Spray installed rotor assy with brake cleaner before installing pads and caliper.

    A large utility tub, like those black plastic rectangular ones, keep the ground clean doing brake jobs and others too with fluids.
    Catches dropped parts and tools, rust chunks, spills. Saves cleanup time.
    Cheap interlocking foam floor pads great for kneeling on, milk crate for sitting.
    Indexing one wheel stud at 12 o'clock, before installing wheel, makes installing wheels easier.
    Last edited by gr79; 09-25-2018 at 11:58 PM.

  8. #8
    FEP Power Member plumkrazy's Avatar
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    Being a newbie I would when done drive a round the block and then jack up front end and check wheel bearing play with the wheel on. Come to over tighten or under tighten the bearings.
    1 of 3 1985 Silver Grand Prix Capr's
    My first New car and still own 1986 Capri

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by plumkrazy View Post
    Being a newbie I would when done drive a round the block and then jack up front end and check wheel bearing play with the wheel on. Come to over tighten or under tighten the bearings.
    Not a bad idea. Several of my cars do not get many miles. I did find one car where the bearings were always loose. I would tighten them and I would find them loose later. I replaced the bearing nut and problem solved.
    Last edited by KevinK; 09-28-2018 at 10:09 AM.
    Fox Body/3rd Gen MCA Gold Card Judge
    84 SVO 24K miles, 85 Mclaren Capri Vert. 84 GT Turbo Vert.
    88 Mclaren Mustang Vert 20K miles, 89 Mustang LX Sport Vert,
    03 Mach 1 7900 miles, 74 Mustang II, 69 Mustang, 67 Mustang, 07 GT500,
    14 Mustang CS/GT, 15 F150 FTX Tuscany, 16 F250 Crewcab, 67 Tbird 47K miles

  10. #10
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
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    Wow...18ft lbs on that nut eh? I love how he says "make sure the rotor spins freely" but it didn't spin....you could tell he was having to use some pressure to get it turn back & forth the 1/4 turn that he did. That video needs to be removed from the internet!
    Jason Smith
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  11. #11

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    FYI, I quit cleaning bearings 10+ years ago and just drive out old grease with new. Saves time, saves chemicals, saves waste and I'd much quicker.

  12. #12
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    The thing about this stuff is nobody talks about kingpin wear. It’s real and once wear is there the risk of bearing (well, their carrier really) spinning rather than bearings on races goes up substantially.

    One of the big factors is clearances between the kingpin and the bearing carrier. The kingpin is tapered as is the inner bearing which bears the majority of the load

    Certain bearings are vastly better than others on tolerances. National and Motorcraft are several thousandths tighter on average than mcparts store bearings.

    There are things you can do to make a spindle/kingpin last longer once it’s marginal but you do need to know what the hell you are doing. Mine on my 86GT made it 455K miles but they were for all intents and purposes shot after 250K miles. When you’re broke but you’re an engineer and it’s your way to work the next day you figure it out.

    one tip I will share is given the taper on the kingpin if you are not able to reasonably tighten the nut and make it so you can’t turn the rotor anymore it means the inner bearing is not right on tolerances. If you use 120 grit silicon carbide on a piece of glass you can polish off some metal on the bearing carrier on the side nearest the seal. This will make it so the bearing move further inward which removes play on the bearing carrier vs kingpin. Now if you tighten the nut and the bearings don’t roll you also can’t moce the rotor — the carier won’t turn on the spindle instead anymore.

    as wear happens sometimes that spinning starts to happen. Again any time you can’t torque it so it won’t turn anymore it’s messed up! And if it spins there the kingpin overheats and the front wheel comes off!

    The other thing is avoiding getting grease inside the bearing between the carrier and the kingpin helps avoid the spinning bearing carrier condition. You’ll always have some grease towards the bottom as it gets in there naturally. Good thing as that’s where the kingpin wears. None towards the top gives it a good chance of not spinning

    Antway..... just what I know about it in addition to the other guidance and details given.

    Results vary and this one is more of an art than a science.

    But do check for play when you are done and again after a short drive. 1-2 miles at highway speeds then check temp. Go a a few more and check again.
    — the center of the wheel should not be so hot you can’t touch it under normal conditions.

    Mine (before I swapped to SN95) stay cool enough that I could touch the center of the wheel on a hot summer day after driving 30 miles at 85 mph. My son’s convertible does too.

    Good luck!!

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    The thing about this stuff is nobody talks about kingpin wear. It’s real and once wear is there the risk of bearing (well, their carrier really) spinning rather than bearings on races goes up substantially.

    One of the big factors is clearances between the kingpin and the bearing carrier. The kingpin is tapered as is the inner bearing which bears the majority of the load

    Certain bearings are vastly better than others on tolerances. National and Motorcraft are several thousandths tighter on average than mcparts store bearings.

    There are things you can do to make a spindle/kingpin last longer once it’s marginal but you do need to know what the hell you are doing. Mine on my 86GT made it 455K miles but they were for all intents and purposes shot after 250K miles. When you’re broke but you’re an engineer and it’s your way to work the next day you figure it out.

    one tip I will share is given the taper on the kingpin if you are not able to reasonably tighten the nut and make it so you can’t turn the rotor anymore it means the inner bearing is not right on tolerances. If you use 120 grit silicon carbide on a piece of glass you can polish off some metal on the bearing carrier on the side nearest the seal. This will make it so the bearing move further inward which removes play on the bearing carrier vs kingpin. Now if you tighten the nut and the bearings don’t roll you also can’t moce the rotor — the carier won’t turn on the spindle instead anymore.

    as wear happens sometimes that spinning starts to happen. Again any time you can’t torque it so it won’t turn anymore it’s messed up! And if it spins there the kingpin overheats and the front wheel comes off!

    The other thing is avoiding getting grease inside the bearing between the carrier and the kingpin helps avoid the spinning bearing carrier condition. You’ll always have some grease towards the bottom as it gets in there naturally. Good thing as that’s where the kingpin wears. None towards the top gives it a good chance of not spinning

    Antway..... just what I know about it in addition to the other guidance and details given.

    Results vary and this one is more of an art than a science.

    But do check for play when you are done and again after a short drive. 1-2 miles at highway speeds then check temp. Go a a few more and check again.
    — the center of the wheel should not be so hot you can’t touch it under normal conditions.

    Mine (before I swapped to SN95) stay cool enough that I could touch the center of the wheel on a hot summer day after driving 30 miles at 85 mph. My son’s convertible does too.

    Good luck!!
    No offense here, Sir, please, but a few things need to be sorted out or clarified within these ^ details...

    The bearing races both reside inside of straight counter-bores within the rotors, and the surfaces of the spindle where the wheel bearings' inside diameters ride are also straight surfaces... the only taper that exists are the angle of the roller bearings themselves, and the races are what are tapered. Any right or wrong clearance/setting of properly repacked wheel bearings is ALL about nut adjustment by the nut who is doing the work, lol...

    If you cannot tighten the nut enough to be over-tight, either the counter-bore/s are machined too deep in the rotor or the bearing races are the wrong ones or are not wide enough to fill the horizontal space within the rotor counter bores...
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
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    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  14. #14
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    So just as a fyi, I went to do my front rotors today and realized that the inner wheel bearings and wheel seals that I ordered from rock auto are the wrong size(too big) even though they say they will work. I ordered them about 3 months ago and now cant be returned without going through a hassle. Part numbers are Centric 410.91005(bearing) 41761003(wheel seal). Referencing lmr they have that bearing listed as 87-93 but no where does it say this on Rock auto description. Not happy at all with rock auto. Can someone tell me what bearings and wheel seals will work for my car? The rotors I ordered are the raybestos part number 6060R.
    Last edited by Sask84gt; 10-14-2018 at 03:46 PM.

  15. #15

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    I've got many sets of bearings and seals for stock 87 up rotors. If you measure I can tell you if they'll fit.

  16. #16
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer Down View Post
    I've got many sets of bearings and seals for stock 87 up rotors. If you measure I can tell you if they'll fit.
    Thanks, the bearings I recieved are for the 87 and up rotors. Problem is I ordered them for the 79-86 rotors thinking they would work because rock auto says the would fit.

  17. #17

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    I see their mistake that you found out the hard way. I hear you on it's a basic moot point with low dollar items and return/refund, but please inform them about the F-up so that others don't end up in the same boat. Assuming you're working with an '84 by your nickname... if you look under 1983, the same rotors are listed, as well as smaller outside diameter (and all other dimensions) bearings listed with a different Centric part number. FYI, unless (your old) bearings are badly neglected, with breakage or scoring or rust, tapered roller bearings are quite often cleaned and repacked and reused... ditto with the seals if not distorted badly or destroyed during removal... cleaning and reusing the old stuff is a viable option... but as well, if you're considering ordering more new stuff, I'd check at least the inside diameter of the counter bores in your rotors, and matching up with listed dimensions if given, such as are with the Centric brand, just to be sure prior to ordering again...
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 10-14-2018 at 05:03 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  18. #18
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    I see their mistake that you found out the hard way. I hear you on it's a basic moot point with low dollar items and return/refund, but please inform them about the F-up so that others don't end up in the same boat. Assuming you're working with an '84 by your nickname... if you look under 1983, the same rotors are listed, as well as smaller outside diameter (and all other dimensions) bearings listed with a different Centric part number. FYI, unless (your old) bearings are badly neglected, with breakage or scoring or rust, tapered roller bearings are quite often cleaned and repacked and reused... ditto with the seals if not distorted badly or destroyed during removal... cleaning and reusing the old stuff is a viable option... but as well, if you're considering ordering more new stuff, I'd check at least the inside diameter of the counter bores in your rotors, and matching up with listed dimensions if given, such as are with the Centric brand, just to be sure prior to ordering again...
    Ya, I'm working on a 84 and yes I will inform them. The old bearings dont seem to bad but I will need the wheel seals for sure cause the old ones are toast.

  19. #19
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Got em done today. Everything went fine and the only thing I'm not sure about is there seems to be a bit of rubbing on the passenger side. Sounds like rubbing on the plastic piece of spindle. Does that make sense? Cant see anything but can hear it. Nut is not tight and I followed Kevin's instructions.
    Thanks for all the info/tips guys! Made it easy for a rookie to do this for the first time. Cheers!
    Attachment 124503

  20. #20
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sask84gt View Post
    Got em done today. Everything went fine and the only thing I'm not sure about is there seems to be a bit of rubbing on the passenger side. Sounds like rubbing on the plastic piece of spindle. Does that make sense? Cant see anything but can hear it. Nut is not tight and I followed Kevin's instructions.
    Thanks for all the info/tips guys! Made it easy for a rookie to do this for the first time. Cheers!
    Attachment 124503
    In my experience I have seen the plastic dust shields on these cars get damaged and even melted/distorted over time. This can cause them to rub slightly on the rotors. you should be able to use a flashlight to verify if the shield is touching the rotor at any spot. Then you can try tweaking the plastic shield by hand or with a prybar/screwdriver. If that doesn't do the trick, you can use a heat gun to gently heat the shield if needed and then use the same tools to pry it away from the rotor. Leave the tool in place until the shield cools and then hopefully you should be fine. Good Luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
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  21. #21
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    No offense here, Sir, please, but a few things need to be sorted out or clarified within these ^ details...

    The bearing races both reside inside of straight counter-bores within the rotors, and the surfaces of the spindle where the wheel bearings' inside diameters ride are also straight surfaces... the only taper that exists are the angle of the roller bearings themselves, and the races are what are tapered. Any right or wrong clearance/setting of properly repacked wheel bearings is ALL about nut adjustment by the nut who is doing the work, lol...

    If you cannot tighten the nut enough to be over-tight, either the counter-bore/s are machined too deep in the rotor or the bearing races are the wrong ones or are not wide enough to fill the horizontal space within the rotor counter bores...
    no offense taken.

    If you look at the spindle and the bearing where the inner bearing comes together with the spindle there is a taper on the inner bearing and the spindle — the corner is rounded. It’s not a straight cut. That is what I was trying to get across.

    |__

    is more like

    |
    \__


    You can increase pressure here \ by polishing off a little metal on the bearing carrier here
    |


    Especially helpful if you’ve spun a bearing before and your spindle now looks more like

    {__

    Or worse....

    and new king pins or different spindles are not in the time and budget constraints.

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