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  1. #1
    FEP Senior Member dagenham's Avatar
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    Default Sub frame connectors

    So while in line Friday morning to get into Mustang Week I pushed the clutch in and the wonderful plastic clutch quadrant decided to go to $&@t. 3-1/2 hours later, my friend and I put in a whole new adjustable kit that UPR had with them at the show.
    Any how, back to my question. The drivers seat leans bad towards the outside on my 85 and it isnt the seat but the floor I think is bent down. The floor is solid and not rusty at all but seemingly bent. I think from years of pushing the clutch pedal in. I jacked it back in place but it will not stay. I'm thinking about sfc with seat braces but was thinking about just getting bolt on ones. Yes I can weld but I was thinking bolt on so they could be removed later if I want to for some reason.
    So does anyone still make bolt on sub frame connectors?
    Last edited by dagenham; 09-10-2018 at 10:56 AM.
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

  2. #2

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    Real Saleen or not, unless it’s a concourse car I would not hesitate to use weld in subframe connectors. Buy good ones from Maximum Motorsports

  3. #3
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    Weld in is the only way to go .
    If the floor is flexing , you may need the ssp reinforcement .
    clowns to the left of me , Jokers to the right

  4. #4
    FEP Member Tigger's Avatar
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    Mine cracked along the rocker. I was coming home from work one night and hit some bumps and my drivers seat sunk slightly and started to lean to one side. It must have been enough for it to finally let go. Luckily, the floor was not cracked too bad. I had a friend weld it up. While he was at it, I had him weld in some old Kenny Brown super subs that I bought in 2000 for my Tigger car. They had the seat braces installed. I have not looked back at doing that mod. It was well worth it. I would weld them in again if I had to.
    67 Mustang Coupe
    96 Tangerine GT
    86 Saleen #179

  5. #5
    FEP Senior Member dagenham's Avatar
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    Ok. I did a little looking and it seams everyone sells the same brands for the same prices. But the thing I noticed is the seat brackets. Some brands look like they come welded on and some dont. Am I right or just deceived by pics? I think it's between Stifflers and Maximum Motorsports. I seen UPR but it appears the steel tubing is only half as thick as others.
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

  6. #6

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    Most of the quality subframe connectors require welding the seat brackets on to the connectors. There is so much variation between cars that itís really the best way.

    if memory serves Maximum Motorsports require welding on the brackets.

    Iím going to put a Kenny Brown street cage in my 85 build before itís done. Further stiffening.

  7. #7
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Default

    IMHO bolt on SFC are a waste of time. You will have to drill holes to mount the vast majority that I have seen, so you will have to "modify" the car in that way. I do understand not wanting to "modify" or alter a Saleen for obvious reason.

    With that said, you can weld up the tear in the floor and leave as is. The floor will still be weak and may tear again depending on how fatigued the metal is and how often you are in/out of the vehicle and how much you drive it.

    You can try to find the OEM floor reinforcement such as the SSP plate that was added to those cars and eventually became standard on the later Aero cars. You can add the LMR pieces that should be welded in, but could be installed in another manner with some ingenuity. https://lmr.com/item/LRS-11135RP/79-...orcement-Panel

    I still think the best option is a set of full length SFC with the brace for the seat bolts such as the Maximum Motorsports pieces. They are weld in only, but IMHO the do not detract from a car and honestly are worth the work as the benefits definitely outweigh any downsides IMHO. If you are still set against weld in due to the car being a Saleen, send me a PM as I have a set of bolt in SFC from one of my cars that I will not be using if you are interested. Good Luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Awaiting Restoration
    1984 SVO Restoration in Progress
    1986 GT Wrecked by PO, but still want to save!

    Current Capris:
    1982 Capri Roller
    1984 Capri Returned to Bubble Back Glory
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
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  8. #8
    FEP Senior Member dagenham's Avatar
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    After thinking about it I will weld them in. WTH. Might as well.
    Trey, that's just it, the floor isn't even cracked. Just pushed down. The back of the original drivers side seat was pushed out also. There must have been a big guy driving this car hard I think
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

  9. #9
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dagenham View Post
    After thinking about it I will weld them in. WTH. Might as well.
    Trey, that's just it, the floor isn't even cracked. Just pushed down. The back of the original drivers side seat was pushed out also. There must have been a big guy driving this car hard I think
    Interesting. I have seen some bends in the floor, but generally any major lean or bend will crack the floor at or near the outside rear seat stud. Good Luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Awaiting Restoration
    1984 SVO Restoration in Progress
    1986 GT Wrecked by PO, but still want to save!

    Current Capris:
    1982 Capri Roller
    1984 Capri Returned to Bubble Back Glory
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
    1982 Capri RS 5.0 4spd T-tops

  10. #10
    FEP Senior Member dagenham's Avatar
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    Default

    I will double check to make sure the floor isn't cracked when I get the sfc and ready to is tall them
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

  11. #11
    FEP Senior Member dagenham's Avatar
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    Ok call me cheap but..... Whats the big deal about sfc? Its a simple pair of 1X2 steel tube with two bends. I can buy the steel for less than half of the cost of any decent pieces. I founnd the dimensions on www.oldwestracing.com. I'm gonna look into the price of steel and go from there.
    Of course this is also just me thinking out loud.
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

  12. #12
    FEP Senior Member dagenham's Avatar
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    Looked today. It will cost me less than $75 for the steel to make them. Seriously thinking about going this route.
    Thoughts anyone?
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

  13. #13
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default

    Had similar issues too. Shop placed lift pad under floor pan and pushed it up a little.
    Repaired a seat back recently. Lifted fabric to find back brace welds to frame broken.
    Hardware plate brackets and large rivets fixed that.

    DIY fab can be satisfying and much cheaper; no shop production overhead, keep profit margin, mod as needed.
    They use the same basic materials bought in bulk lots.
    One person cuts material, one welds, others inspect, finish, package the product. Simple work.
    Coarse flap disks on a right angle air grinder work great to smooth welds quickly.
    Good for rounding edges of cut steel too. Last longer than grinding wheels.
    Most all welding splatter (bb's) come off scraping with a chisel.
    Then clean the tubing real well before paint for best result.
    Move hot soap pressure wash wand close and slow to steel to strip off any blackish protective coating.
    Rinse with hot water spray. Easy to tell when its all off. Metal looks and feels clean. Blow dry if desired. Paint.
    Can hold connector up in position when welding to car with a floor jack, just enough pressure to hold it tight.
    Last edited by gr79; 10-04-2018 at 11:44 AM.

  14. #14
    FEP Senior Member dagenham's Avatar
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    Default

    Exactly
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

  15. #15
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dagenham View Post
    Ok call me cheap but..... Whats the big deal about sfc? Its a simple pair of 1X2 steel tube with two bends. I can buy the steel for less than half of the cost of any decent pieces. I founnd the dimensions on www.oldwestracing.com. I'm gonna look into the price of steel and go from there.
    Of course this is also just me thinking out loud.
    Maximum Motorsports Full Length SFC are 1.5" X 2" x 0.83 wall thickness. In my experience you are closer to $100 in materials, unless you have a cheaper source than I have found for that size. Yes, you can build your own and save some $$, but what is your time worth. I have done it both ways and honestly unless I am building multiple sets of SFC it's not worth my time to build my own, that's my .02 worth.

    The other point with MM SFC is the seat brace. You will have a difficult time fabricating your own that honestly fits and works as well as the MM piece. Yes, it can be done if you have some nice metal forming tools and the time. Otherwise, again I would just spend the $160 and have them shipped out (Free shipping on that item) and then all you have to do is weld them in. Worth every penny in my humble opinion. I have personally installed about a dozen sets on my cars and others over the years.

    I actually have a Capri with a set of self fabricated SFC on it right now, that I have seriously considered cutting off and installing the MM set. I built the set over 15 years ago, so honestly my skills have improved since then, but also like the MM setup over the look of my fabricated setup. Good Luck!
    Last edited by wraithracing; 09-18-2018 at 09:14 PM.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Awaiting Restoration
    1984 SVO Restoration in Progress
    1986 GT Wrecked by PO, but still want to save!

    Current Capris:
    1982 Capri Roller
    1984 Capri Returned to Bubble Back Glory
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
    1982 Capri RS 5.0 4spd T-tops

  16. #16
    FEP Senior Member dagenham's Avatar
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    I havent bought sfc yet. Other stuff in the way. I just happen to be on UPR's website and see their sfc. $60. They are the same thickness as Maximum Motorsports with seat braces at half the price. Makes me wonder if all I'm doing is paying for the name from MM.
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

  17. #17

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    Basically.

    On my cougar birds the floor is flat, so there is no reason to spend the extra money. One day I'll get around to it.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  18. #18
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dagenham View Post
    I havent bought sfc yet. Other stuff in the way. I just happen to be on UPR's website and see their sfc. $60. They are the same thickness as Maximum Motorsports with seat braces at half the price. Makes me wonder if all I'm doing is paying for the name from MM.
    The SFC you mention are the shorter not the Full Length SFC that I recommend and use by Maximum Motorsport. If you want to compare apples to apples, then you need to look at these http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-f...onnectors.html

    Now when comparing these the UPR are 1.25" not the 1.5" MM offers. They also don't state the wall thickness as MM does of 0.83" I would bet they are a thinner wall tubing which translates into weaker or not as stiff. Yes, they are @ $35 cheaper, but IMHO I have seen the UPR suspension parts and I wouldn't put that on anything that I own or plan on driving. I know others feel different and that is fine, to each is own. Bottom line again IMHO dollar for dollar you won't find a better quality product than MM offers. The simple test for me is look on Ebay and see how much MM stuff is available used compared to UPR and others. That tells me something.

    Oh and on the cheaper shorter SFC the UPR are 1" X 2" and the MM are 1.5" X 2" so again not apples to apples. No mention of wall thickness again on the UPR units.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Awaiting Restoration
    1984 SVO Restoration in Progress
    1986 GT Wrecked by PO, but still want to save!

    Current Capris:
    1982 Capri Roller
    1984 Capri Returned to Bubble Back Glory
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
    1982 Capri RS 5.0 4spd T-tops

  19. #19
    FEP Senior Member dagenham's Avatar
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    Ok Trey. You may be right. I didn't think about the size. Yes I compared lengths and the ones I looked at are the same .083 wall thickness as MM. I don't need the extra long ones. Remember, I am only putting these on to help with my seat problem. I'm not building a race car or even a big hp street car.
    I do understand what you are getting at and as always I've come to appreciate your insight.
    Last edited by dagenham; 10-04-2018 at 10:46 AM.
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

  20. #20
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    If you don't really care or need the SFC and you want to do this on a budget, then you might consider this instead.

    https://lmr.com/item/LRS-11135RP/79-...orcement-Panel

    This will allow you to reinforce the floor pan without the additional issues of SFC. You can do one side or both depending on your desires. I installed a pair on my 82 GT in addition to the MM SFC. Good Luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Awaiting Restoration
    1984 SVO Restoration in Progress
    1986 GT Wrecked by PO, but still want to save!

    Current Capris:
    1982 Capri Roller
    1984 Capri Returned to Bubble Back Glory
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
    1982 Capri RS 5.0 4spd T-tops

  21. #21
    FEP Senior Member dagenham's Avatar
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    Hmmm. Ill have to look at that too. I forgot about them. As always, thanks Trey.
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

  22. #22
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    No problem! Glad to help! Let us know how it goes.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Awaiting Restoration
    1984 SVO Restoration in Progress
    1986 GT Wrecked by PO, but still want to save!

    Current Capris:
    1982 Capri Roller
    1984 Capri Returned to Bubble Back Glory
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
    1982 Capri RS 5.0 4spd T-tops

  23. #23

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    IMO the shorter SFCs look busy and out of place when installed. I would not mess around with anything other than the full length SFC from MM.

    I have HPM connectors on my 86 that are made from moly steel. They’ve held up very well, but they are not as long as MM and when I redo the ol rust bucket it’s getting the same connectors that are on my 85 build.

    If you drive your car at all, also consider the added safety that comes from a quality SFC.

    I’m going to add a Kenny Brown streeet cage to my 85 also and tie it into the connectors. Both cars will get this for safety reasons.

    I’m also going to add jacking rails when I build my 86.

    Not connecting a Fox is asking for trouble. I put slicks on my 86 one night. Was rewarded with a twist in the body. Then came someone with an enormous mouth that needed to be put in his place so a small shot of NOS got sprayed with the slicks. My reward? 1 7/8” twist in my daily driver that had to be massaged back out before the SFC went in.

    The unibody falls apart around the motor if you plant your right foot and don’t have connectors, even at Stock power levels.

  24. #24

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    Something to think about:

    How many times are you going to put SFCs in? once I hope. Do it with good materials and take your time. They will outlast the car if you do it right!
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
    Albert Einstein

    1984 20th Anniversary GT350
    Almost "Stock"

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