Looking for suggestions on heads and cam combo for a 82 gt 302.car is a street car, have new weiand stealth intake and holley 600 demon carb. Looking to 300 -350 h.p.
Heads and cam
Looking for suggestions on heads and cam combo for a 82 gt 302.car is a street car, have new weiand stealth intake and holley 600 demon carb. Looking to 300 -350 h.p.
There are quite a few heads out there that will give you that kind of power. The biggest thing is the budget for the project. If it were me I would get a set of Trick Flow track heat heads (admittedly I am a TFS fan). Then call whatever cam company you like and have them recommend you a camshaft. When I did mine I ended up going with Lunati.
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AFR165’s and 1.7:1 rockers with good induction and exhaust will yield right at 400 HP and 400 ftlbs at the crank using a stock HO cam.
There’s your 350 to the wheels.
Switch to E85 and advance the timing or go to race gas and pick up another 15% or so ..... about 60 HP
Just sayin’
Your numbers will never happen and E85 adding 15% on a low compression engine will not happen either.Originally Posted by erratic50
Your budget is key. Both heads mentioned are good heads. Will you go hydraulic roller or?
82 ford fairmont futura
quicktime turbosystems 70mm turbo
10.67@128.38
1 - 400HP articles. One with Stock cam and 1.7:1. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hot...e-buildup/amp/
One with an aftermarket cam- http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-t...-block-engine/
2 - 15% power gain in a boosted application. https://preracing.com/fun-with-corn-...ol-conversion/
forgot the gains in NA form for E85 and race gas at around 9:1 is more like 5-7%... nice article about it here https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/fuel-truth/
3 - E85 requires 35% more fuel and when making peak power lines to get ran a little fat yet too. Plan on more like 38-40% more fuel knowing fuel does not compress and will increase cylinder pressure as if the same motor were ran on gas with a smaller chamber head.
4 - I did not mention the small chamber 165 in my post above and I’ll give you that — but they do make one which is what I was thinking about at the time. A thinner head gaskets would increase compression substantially with the small chamber head. Easily in the 11.5:1 range.
So anyway for what it’s worth.... that’s my info sources behind my thoughts.
I stand by what I said — there’s your 350HP. Go for more compression and you’ll get more than that.
There are some 10 second foxbody cars in race trim that make 360 to the wheels in N/A form with a decently lumpy cam and GT40 heads with a ported cobra intake, and dip into the 10’s with a 150 shot. They run 11’s in NA form
Last edited by erratic50; 09-28-2018 at 02:47 AM.
havent decide to convert to hydraulic or flat tappet. What are some good parts either way?
You thinking street car or race car?
Thread in oil galley plugs so you can jack up the oil pressure and help manage lifter collapse or shimmed hydraulic lifters or solids will help with your high RPM lift and power numbers
Ive helped build engines that carry 70 psi at idle and bury a 100 psi gauge when you stomp on them. The key is plenty of rod and main bearing clearance. With a little luck you won’t spin a bearing at those pressures then.
Dont cheap out on pushrods, get the strongest you can as they resist deflection
There are stock class cars that were spinning a stock HO cam in a dart block into the 8000 RPM range with shimmed lifters or oil pressure games and other such modifications.
A flowtech designed cam will give you way more than you ever expected, but nail down your combo and do what they tell you. Their computer models are reportedly very accurate.
we’ll see - I have one for my 85 GT with Racecraft suspension that’s going full Saleen clone.
Its not financially worth retrofitting a roller cam in a flat tappet block usually. But if it makes sense to you to do it then by all means. Most guys get a newer roller block to build in.
Roller cams have less friction, they do well without a zinc additive, and they often seem to last a lot longer.
Last edited by erratic50; 09-28-2018 at 03:00 AM.
Another option is a set of Trick flow 11R heads with 53cc chambers. That will boost your compression up to the 10.5:1 range and will also give you some extra piston to valve clearance. Really at that power level there are quite a few heads that will give you what you are looking for. I am kinda on the fence about switching to a roller cam if your block isn’t equipped for it. It might end up being a decent amount of money for a very minimal gain. There is no doubt a roller cam is better than a flat tappet cam just not sure if it is worth switching at this point.
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Sorry ..... class name is Real Street. Here’s info about it.
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-t...oller-engines/
Many people consider me to be pretty crazy for spinning my high mileage 5.0 past 6000 routinely, but with the E6 head and a good intake that’s what it takes to get to the rev limiter and to where it wants to stop pulling.
There are formulas for engine RPM potential that are a function of head flow on the intake side. Give the head what it wants and that’s the first thing that determines if you’re making power or just making noise.
Hitting a rev limiter is a bad idea. You’re always better off avoiding it if you can. I shift at 6100 in hopes of finding the next gear before the limiter.
Theres something both unnatural and amazing about hearing an old 5.0L hit 5000 and just keep right on pulling. The exhaust note of that last 1250 RPM is a brand new reason to lust after the chance to drive it just that much more. Just don’t go nuts and blow it up. Lol
The other part about the extra RPM is that’s where the party is at. It will make more horsepower up there in that range than it’s ever dreamt of making before in its life.
A lighter flywheel and clutch/pressure plate package vs stock is another thing to go after. Autozone carries a flywheel that’s 21lbs instead of 30 - 9 lbs less rotating mass!! That makes the ol 5.0 rev up one hell of a lot faster
A T5Z or stronger transmission along with a decent clutch and an 8.8 rearend are needed in the long run. The 2.95 low gear vs 3.35 low gear is not particularly desireable with a 2.73 but with a lot of hard clutch application a hole shot is still possible and all gears 1-4 are now much closer together
My car turned up with good induction and headers and an A9L MAF ECU vs my son’s stock 86GT with a VM1 ECU and turned up it pretty fun to see. They are both geared the same and both weigh the same within 100 lbs. The moment he winds out first on his and has to pull second my car rockets forward in comparison substantially. When my gear change comes at 60 we are both just past 4000 in 2nd. He’s about to bang 3rd and my car is about to rocket away even more as speeds shoot up from 60 to just under 90. He’s long ago in 3rd and letting the car eat for all it’s worth. The deciding moment as the modded car stretches things out is will my T5Z actually decide to let me hit 3rd this time — or not. It doesn’t like the 2-3 shift at high RPM at all but if it goes in there’s about enough time at the end of the 1/4 to make a sandwich before he gets there. Otherwise you have a front row seat and get to watch as he pulls past and gets there first even if you do eventually find 3rd and put your foot back in it.
The intake swap and other parts is good for around 4-5 car lengths pretty easily in the 1/4 mile. Not bad considering the more stock of the two cars hits the traps at well over 100 in 3rd and well under 14 seconds.
Find a guy with a GT500 on the street that can’t drive it very well and you’ll see a smoke show in your rear view as you remind him what foxbody tail lights look like.....
Theres one around Omaha with just such a driver and I’ve gapped him multiple times stoplight to stoplight while making a flying run to the airport
You won’t be anyone’s hero without a lot more power than I’m making but the heads being discussed should get you into some magical territory in terms of HP to weight ratio vs a lot of supercars and several really bad-ass rides.
Good luck on your build. Spend plenty of time doing your homework on the drive train combo and you won’t be disappointed with the results. This platform is one of the most modifiable on a budget in the history of cars.
just be sure to read the articles on fitting huge meats out back. 335/30/17’s and stuff like that. You’ll need them to keep from blowing the tires off
Is it worth the time and money to convert a non roller block to a roller motor?
I have a similar engine in my 84, and in the spring I am buying these
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-51410002-m61
and I am getting a cam with specs similar to an E cam. Flat tappet obviously. This won’t make the 400 hp you are looking for, but TFS or AFR are great choices.
i looked into the Edelbrock Street E heads. Which, doing forum research...lol..... seem like a terrible option.
82g, you will not get 350 to the wheels on your typical dyno jet with a stock hr cam with 1.7 rr and afr 165 heads. Im sure erratic means well, but he must read too many magazines. 280 rwhp would be more attainable goal with his example.
Gt40x crate motor is rated at 345. Trickflow topend is rated near 360. “My” boss 363 is rated at 500 and my dart 363 with afr 195 heads dyno’d 525 (9.2:1 compression) engine dyno for the above.
82 ford fairmont futura
quicktime turbosystems 70mm turbo
10.67@128.38
was looking at the twisted wedge 170 heads, not quite sure what came to use.
Link bar hydraulic roller lifters is the way to go if you want to go hr.
You can do it for about $120 for Chinese parts or 300 to 500 better parts. I know 2 people who have used the cheap ones with out issue. 1 was a basic 302 and the other was a supercharged 331. Me I wou;d spend the money on better lifters.
Is it worth it to go hr? Your goals will dictate that.
82 ford fairmont futura
quicktime turbosystems 70mm turbo
10.67@128.38
1/4 mile times don’t lie friends. There are many ways to get to 400 HP and beyond with a 302. Even to the wheels if you know what to look at and you really pay attention to detail. (Although not to the wheels in N/A form with a stock cam and 1.7’s ..... not possible without more displacement)
The fastest car I’m aware of ran 10.90’s in full N/A form. It was a completely stripped out shell with a cage and minimal everything else but do the math on ET Cs weight and tell me what you get.
Granted it is easier to do these things with more high end parts.
but if I had a nickel for every time the high end parts should have catalog matched right on around me I’d be pretty well off too. Focus on the combo. Build known performers, not thrown together stuff! You’ll get 30% or more additional out of the same investment.
Once you have a great foundation, experiment and see what works.
why IS there considerable vacuum in the manifold at WOT,etc
you know — the basics.
no offense to anyone and no offense taken by anything said — just my perspective.
I try hard to share as much as I can. Im well read s d have been doing too much with not enough for a long time
Heads and cam
If you want to make 400 hp out of a 302 you are going to need some aftermarket parts. Even with aftermarket parts getting a properly matched up combination is imperative. It always pays to carefully select the components and the good news is that there is so much information out there on 302 engines to help you make an informed decision.
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With roller cam lobe technology today, there is absolutely no reason in my opnion to use a flat tappet cam ever again unless it is class restricted. If you don't have a roller block or the extra money, skip the fancy valve covers and monster tach and buy a set of good link bar lifters.
I'll take it one step further. With the amount of explorer engines littering junkyards across the country, there is no reason anyone looking for performance should be using a 78-84 302. My opnion of course.
Last edited by bkm; 10-08-2018 at 08:16 PM.
Yeah I agree with you there.
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Cost times 4+ is a great reason to stick with a flat tappet camshaft and lifters. Ignore the hype and BS about how much "better" roller cam lobe "technology" is, as well as the boogeyman zinc scare. Use a good heavy duty motor oil, lubricate and break the new cam and lifters in properly, change the oil after that and in sane intervals of mileage, and there is no issue.
A million miles with disconnected platinum and other spark plugs never changed, as well as brain dead computer amounts of timing advance creating craters from detonation in piston tops and ring lands and too-thin piston rings are great reasons for avoiding junkyard exploder 302's. If looking for a core engine, do yourself a favor and go ten more rows back in the junkyard to where the mid-'70's and older small blocks are.
OP... shoot for 10.5:1 compression ratio... grab bottom dollar aftermarket cylinder heads, or port or have ported any non-'86 set of Ford cylinder heads, have them planed for said 10+:1 compression ratio... put in a camshaft approaching, at, or slightly over 230-degrees @ 0.050" intake duration, and about 110-degrees lobe separation... skip past all other fancy non-power-producing nonsense.... sell the 600 Demon for a premium price based on name alone... score yourself a cheap 3310 750 vacuum secondary... and you'll EASILY arrive at your 300-350 horsepower goal.
Last edited by Walking-Tall; 10-09-2018 at 12:06 PM.
Mike
1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
1983 Mercury Cougar LS
1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
1980 Capri RS Turbo
Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/
Hype and BS? Why did the oem go to roller? You mean to tell me the bean counters were perfectly fine with spending the extra cost of the roller cams if they weren't superior? The break in procedure alone is reason enough to never run another flat tappet.
Call any cam guy or camshaft manufacturer and get their opnion. Then report back and tell me about the bs lobe technology.
Do you realize how hard it is to achieve good compression with a 302, let alone a turd from the 70's? You start milling heads, then create other unforseen problems the average guy has no clue how to correct. There is a reason you are suggesting throwing the kitchen sink at a flat tappet 302 to try and make 350 hp, it's because they suck. The only redeeming quality of a late 60's/early 70's 302 is the blocks are marginally stronger and they're 28oz imbalance. But at 300-350hp, this is moot.
Spend $400 on a JY exploder roller motor
$300 roller cam cam, or $150-200 used
Weiand xcelerator intake for $100
Good springs for $200
$60 for good pushrods
$150 used carb
And it will fall out of a tree and make 300-350 flywheel hp
This isn't reinventing the wheel here. It's been done a bazillion times and is a proven combo and the best part is you don't even have to lift the heads.
Last edited by bkm; 10-09-2018 at 06:13 PM.
But what if we invent a wheel that’s more round? Lol
Like a roller? Lol
Lol !!
I won't say who I agree with here (when you get to the end of this you might be surprised actually.. but based on this logic why did Toyota make the Prius if it wasn't far superior to standard internal combustion engines? Why did Ford switch to the 6.0 diesel from the tried and true 7.3 International in the Super Duty? (I will play the Jeopardy music while you go search). Why did Ford end up replacing the venerable pushrod 5.0 with the totally anemic and pathetic 4.6 in the Mustang in 1996 even though it was completely slower in any kind of test?
Okay, I will tell you the answer........GOVCO CAFE! That's why. They had no choice since the government (you know, the ones that continually triple the debt every other year) think they know best and set standards for privately owned companies. They can't manage their money but they are certain they know what private companies should do with theirs. Strangest thing I have ever seen. They have proven themselves a total failure when managing money but they can sure tell Detroit how to do it. And nobody ever says a word. Fuel / emissions is the 2 word answer to your question. You can't possibly think that Ford had YOUR interests in mind when switching?
Ford cares about selling cars and they have to meet GOVCO's standards. The means the very first morning that an electric Mustang meets those 2 requirements guess what? The Mustang will become electric.
Last edited by homer302; 10-09-2018 at 07:53 PM.
I think we're getting off topic here, although I agree with most of what you typed. But if we're using CAFE as the the only reasoning, why didn't Ford use a flat tappet camshaft in the 85 Mustang like the rest of their fleet? Or visa versa, why didn't the rest of their engines automatically go to roller the same year as the Mustang?
Last edited by bkm; 10-09-2018 at 08:07 PM.
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