Hydraulic Clutch Swap?

[ZephyrEFI]

Well, since I always have to have something ruminating in the background while I struggle with my current issues, I thought I would ask about this. Anyone done this swap? All I know is, I ended up doing a few rush hours in my Zeph this summer, and that cable clutch is HEAVY after a while. I want to be able to drive this car a lot, so this may end up being something I consider. Although, the kits are pretty pricey. Is it reasonable to cobble one together from an SN95?

How bad is maintenance? It's kind of absurd I would consider this what with all the trouble I've been having with brake fluid elsewhere. I imagine you have to replace the fluid about as often, and then bleed the system. Ugh. I've seen some installs on TV where they claim the master is "prebled", but honestly, I don't see how that's even possible.

[homer302]

I have always thought it would just be adding more things to fail to an already 30 year old car but it is an intriguing idea for sure. You know a cable setup HAS to be cheaper to manufacture so why do factories install the hydraulic setup? It's not to do the customer a favor, let's face it. I guess on the high HP GT and GT500 cars, the pressure plate would have to be so stiff that the cable would just be too hard to use maybe? But my 4 cylinder Ranger truck has a hydraulic setup so that's certainly not the case for it? Why does Ford spend the money is what I would like to know.

[gr79]

Would also like to know why they spend the (our, the customer) money on stuff like this.
If we need it fine. Pay. Don't need it? Still have to buy it. This 'cost no object just the latest tech' is total crap.
Do the designers, marketers, bean counters, who have freedom to say no, do this out of boredom or for job security?

Have:
Ranger 2.3/5sp- hyd clutch
Mustang 2.3/5sp- cable clutch

Clutch assys, flywheels, bearings are same cost both systems.

Cost of actuation of basically identical components is not:
Ranger hyd= parts 150.00 Plus shop cost of r/r trans to get at the slave cyl.
Mustang cable= 20-30.00. DIY. Manual adjust easy. Replace 1 hr.

I find no advantage to hyd over cable to justify much higher costs to replace or service.
The more parts, the more that can go wrong.
Would rather have an external slave than internal. Easier to repair.

Prefer the cable for feel of clutch, low cost, simplicity of maintenance. Nothing can leak.
Mech linkages were fine too, but needed more maintenance than cable or hyd.
Hyd same low maint and function as a cable with high cost.
Hyd fine for old cars when retrofitting modern drive train.

[dilligaf2]

Well years ago I installed a 302 into something that was never intended to have one, donor car was a 82 mustang, other vehicle had a hydraulic clutch, I ended up mounting a small hydraulic cylinder on the side of the trans that pushed on the clutch fork... looked hinky but it worked fine. From what I heard the switch to hydraulic clutch was because it provided even pressure reducing wear on the clutch. That could be complete BS, but someone vomited it onto me, so I'm doing the same to you, you're welcome.

[banzaibullitt]

I've been thinking about using MDL's kit. Rush hour sucks with a manual trans.

[at_the_junkyard]

What type of clutch setup do you have now...quadrant style or the earlier lever style ?

I found a later model pedal assembly and upgraded my 1980 cobra to the quadrant style with an aftermarket quadrant and adjustable cable etc. My sons 1980 cobra still has the earlier lever style and after driving both cars my opinion is the quadrant style is noticeably easier to operate than the lever style (all other things being fairly equal)

I am not sure how smooth the hydraulic setups are but perhaps that is another possible upgrade option for you ?

[4-barrel Mike]

I have a 90's Mustang cable set up in my '78 Fairmont with a Stinger Stage 3 clutch. It's just fine, very light.

Question: how are you at bleeding hydraulic systems?

Mike

[Haystack]

I ended using a hd f150 clutch when I did my t-5 swap. The f-150's had a hydraulic setup and I figured it would be stiff. It wasn't, until a motor mount let go and pinched the clutch cable.

It was actually one of the lightest clutches I ever drove.

[ZephyrEFI]

I have the later style with an aftermarket quadrant (BBK) and firewall adjuster adjusted all the way loose. I think my cable has some adjustment to it, I'm not sure (if that's even a thing, I don't know!). It's always felt too heavy/tight to me. When I put it together, I was just trying to get it done and working and never got the chance to get back to it. Installing the quadrant in the car REALLY sucks, so once that was done, I was ready for the whole mess to be over. The cable I have is an aftermarket one I got used. Hell, it could be the wrong one for all I know! Do you think if I got a new stock cable, that would lighten it up?

But yeah, Mike. That's definitely the biggest "con" to doing this!

The clutch cable comes out of the firewall right behind the head (plus my engine is moved back a bit). How was it fitting the master cylinder into that space?

[erratic50]

Get a Maximum Motorsports clutch cable and don’t look back. They are by far the closest thing to factory and work extremely well. I used the piece of crap that came with my UPR kit until it snapped. Took a few hundred pounds of force to release my performance clutch..... its light and feels stick with the MM cable.

[BMW Rider]

I personally feel that a good hydraulic system is superior to a cable or linkage any day.

I have the American Powertrain hydraulic kit installed, which they seem to have discontinued due to some problems. It works quite well now that I've sorted some of the design problems it had. It was far from the plug and play installation they advertised though. I chose it for the combined slave cylinder/release bearing rather than the external slave cylinder design of other kits that retain the standard bearing and clutch fork. This has less moving parts to wear and introduce friction and slack. I also like the feel of it with my heavy Spec clutch.

[erratic50]

My 95 Explorer had a hydraulic clutch. The slave cylinder failed before the clutch wore out. I know of at least 5 rangers one one more Explorer that did the same thing.

What a load of BS! Completely and totally pissed me off when it happened to my Explorer Sport. It was my wife’s daily at the time.

Ever lifted a trans and transfer case combo into place around a gas tank that gives you 1/8” clearance — by hand by yourself?! 18 years later I damn well couldn’t do it anymore! The job sucks and any part that risks doing it more often is a terrible part!

Many hundred thousand mile at the time four eyed fox went to the parts store for parts for something else — again. Lost count of how many vehicles it’s rescued honestly. Should have heard my wife bitch when it was the only car we had that still worked! Lol

Mesnwhile a throwout bearing of good quality almost never fails before the clutch wears out. I’ve even tempted fate and not changed them with the clutch several times as long as the math works that I’ll have less than 120K on the bearing when pulling it back apart. Sacralidge I know.....

The cable systems - properly setup - work extremely well. You can’t tell a good one from a great hydro setup.

For me.... when I was flat broke and a value clutch is $25 by itself while kits are $125+ and your down because of a miled out T5, you throw in the disc and get by. Everything held up and it worked out for me for what it’s worth.

I honestly wouldn’t give more than about 3 cents for every hydraulic slave / throwout combo setup ford ever made after seeing so many fail. They did on the F series before the clutches did on those too.

i don’t mind the master on pedal end going if it can be easily replaced... or if the slave is out where the cable goes normally. but slave cyl throwout combo are an immediate complete tear down and a nonstarter for me. Just my opinion

adjustable clutch fork studs and flywheel shims used judiciously make all the difference. The key is a properly shaped quadrant lobe so it works like a compound bow, and a damn good OE cable.

Easy peezy

Powder graphite at install — NEVER oil or grease. maintenance? What maintenance?

[ZephyrEFI]

Yeah, now that you mention it, I was definitely surprised that American Powertrain offers jack squat for our application.

I do really wonder about fitting that master on the firewall there where there's no space for it to be.

Maybe I'll try a new cable. It would certainly be cheaper. Don't know anything about flywheel shims or adjustable clutch fork studs though. Sounds interesting.

[ThunderStruck]

bo 4

Yeah, now that you mention it, I was definitely surprised that American Powertrain offers jack squat for our application.

I do really wonder about fitting that master on the firewall there where there's no space for it to be.

Maybe I'll try a new cable. It would certainly be cheaper. Don't know anything about flywheel shims or adjustable clutch fork studs though. Sounds interesting.

I think that the fox body Mustang 4-cly Turbo or SVO had hdy. clutch...

[Flyin'Montdude]

Get a Maximum Motorsports clutch cable and don’t look back. They are by far the closest thing to factory and work extremely well. I used the piece of crap that came with my UPR kit until it snapped. Took a few hundred pounds of force to release my performance clutch..... its light and feels stick with the MM cable.

To echo what erratic50 said about the maximum motorsports cable, just do it! I had one of those junk aftermarket adjustable cables on 2 different cars and they were both stiff compared to the Ford/MM cable with no other changes.

[erratic50]

My car is mega high miles. I’ve wore out the bushings around the quadrant shaft before even.

A good adjustable quadrant and cable and properly working hardware down below make all the difference.

Powder graphite is the best lube. Quadrant, cables, etc. that’s what I’ve found.

anything that could catch debris such as a clutch wears isn’t really what you want in the long run. A dab of grease on the release fork is a mixed bag. If it’s not thick enough it’s just a mess. Definitely clean any old lube out at the pivot each time it’s down if you can

high temp grease only if you believe in any grease inside your throwout bearing. Usually new ones have some in a lube pocket and that’s plenty

[ZephyrEFI]

So, I was just looking at Rockauto. Looks like Mustangs used cable clutches through '04! I'm shocked! I remember the clutch on my '02 GT being pretty light! FAR lighter than what my Zeph has now. Seems improving the cable setup is worth exploring here. Like you guys have been telling me...

I always believe Maximum Motorsports has done their homework on what they sell. So, the question now is, when I replace my clutch cable, do I replace my BBK quadrant and firewall adjuster with theirs? I'm also a big believer in "designed to work together". Both websites, BBK and MM, say they are designed to work with any aftermarket cable. It really wouldn't cost much more to do though, I guess.

I did not find evidence (rockauto) that SVOs used hydraulic clutches. Maybe an SVO owner can drop in and say for sure.

[JKengineering]

SVO's have a cable clutch but the attachment to the bell housing is different, they use a pivot arm and a second short cable.
87-88 turbo coupe T-bird has a hydraulic clutch with a slave cylinder that moves the clutch fork.
Mike

[ZephyrEFI]

Okay, thanks!

[Flyin'Montdude]

So, I was just looking at Rockauto. Looks like Mustangs used cable clutches through '04! I'm shocked! I remember the clutch on my '02 GT being pretty light! FAR lighter than what my Zeph has now. Seems improving the cable setup is worth exploring here. Like you guys have been telling me...

I always believe Maximum Motorsports has done their homework on what they sell. So, the question now is, when I replace my clutch cable, do I replace my BBK quadrant and firewall adjuster with theirs? I'm also a big believer in "designed to work together". Both websites, BBK and MM, say they are designed to work with any aftermarket cable. It really wouldn't cost much more to do though, I guess.

I did not find evidence (rockauto) that SVOs used hydraulic clutches. Maybe an SVO owner can drop in and say for sure.

There are definitely some differences in quadrants as far as quality and design. I would personally pony up for the MM quadrant.

However, the firewall adjuster is essentially just a hollow bolt and nut in function. I have used a couple of different brands and can't see how they could vary much...

[86gtvert]

I have used a hydraulic clutch on my 87 5.0 Ranger for over 10 years and it works great.
The slave was from 280Z mounted 1 1/2 X 1 1/2 angle bolted to back of T5 bellhousing
The truck already had master cylinder from the 4 cylinder I removed. Replaced the slave cylinder push rod
With threaded rod so I could adjust it. I will post pictures of my if I can find them.

[86gtvert]

This what I used

[slow84lx]

I have used a hydraulic clutch on my 87 5.0 Ranger for over 10 years and it works great.
The slave was from 280Z mounted 1 1/2 X 1 1/2 angle bolted to back of T5 bellhousing
The truck already had master cylinder from the 4 cylinder I removed. Replaced the slave cylinder push rod
With threaded rod so I could adjust it.

I've seen the same modification on a V8 MGB w/302/T5 swap where there is no extra room in the trans tunnel. Worked great with a Toyota truck slave cylinder.

I've heard mixed results from using a aftermarket throwout / hydraulic slave combo. Not sure how the OEM Turbocoupe hydraulic slave T5 worked but if I was making the switch that would bear some looking into.

[modernbeat]

I looked at this for a transmission swap which would require a hydraulic slave. The solutions were either junkyard swap, aftermarket kit, or racecar fabrication.

The Modern Driveline kit: http://www.moderndriveline.com/Techn...ch_Install.htm
The McLeod kit: https://www.mcleodracing.com/index.p...4-mustang.html

The adapted Thunderbird Turbo Coupe pedals and steering column grommet with integrated clutch master cylinder


The adapted Camaro master (very similar to the Thunderbird)


And a modified set of stock pedals to accept an underdash racing master cylinder




And the reservoir for the Tilton

[Ray Dog]

My 86 Saab 900 tapped off of master cylinder to supply the clutch system.
It was high enough if it sprung a leak you didn't loose brakes.
they used such a low pressure system it was run with plastic tubing and hard pipe ends.
Still have on hanging on the wall next to a grill.
And I still have the tool to seperate the line at a Ranger slave cylinder left over from a clutch change.