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  1. #251
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    Default Random Piston Porn

    I will have to see how bad that piston is damaged when I get it to the engine shop. It fared better than the crank. Here are some random pics of misc. details for the pistons.











    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3436.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3437.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3435.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3438.JPG

  2. #252
    FEP Super Member Blainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME View Post
    It always was a 302 being a 79. I was comparing 255 to 302 intake part numbers a bit ago with KevinK.
    Ah....I had thought it was a 255 car. My bad.

    Now that's what I call spun!

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    Last edited by Blainer; 02-14-2024 at 04:50 PM.
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  3. #253
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    No doubt about what was in the pan now. lol

    Re-ringed too and (at least) that one main bearing was changed. Someone forgot to calibrate their plastigauge... lol
    '85 GT

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by qikgts View Post
    No doubt about what was in the pan now. lol

    Re-ringed too and (at least) that one main bearing was changed. Someone forgot to calibrate their plastigauge... lol
    Can you explain a couple of things for me?

    By re-ringed do you suggest these are not original piston rings?

    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME View Post
    I only posted one picture of the rear main bearing and you say this was changed? I'd like to learn a little more on your observations. I am not an expert and thought it was "alright".

    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME View Post

  5. #255
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    I get to look at a lot pics of engine internals at work. Usually see stuff with 60k+ on them. Mostly "modern" stuff where high quality, semi synthetic oil at the minimum has been used. When properly maintained, pistons tend to look a little worn but not sludged/carboned up and the cylinder bores almost always still have crosshatch/surface finish showing. Also, typical pushrod 5.0's that have been decently maintained tend to have crosshatch showing well after 100K miles.

    The pics of your cylinder bores on the previous page show what I think is a high mileage block that likely didn't have the best maintenance history and was gone through but not over-bored. I can't see any crosshatch, can see some vertical marring. Also looks like maybe the typical ridge found at the top of the cylinder had been removed too.

    The cam and lifters look new-ish too. When non roller lifters wear, they tend to get a little concave divot in the middle. I don't see that in the pics.

    Specifically, looking at the pistons, the edges of all the rings in the pic above are crisp and show little signs of wear. There also isn't much carbon present on the oil control rings so all that tells me there hasn't been a whole bunch of miles put on this since someone went in there and freshened it up. Same can be said for the main bearing. It's really thick which is the give away to me. If the bearing surface was wiped off I could assess further, but from what I see there, it doesn't look scored up hardly at all.

    The top of your pistons indicate that after it was gone through, there wasn't a whole lot wrong with how it was running air/fuel wise. When the carbon looks light and like it was spray painted on, that's a sign of running well.

    I don't know why someone went in there to begin with to freshen it up, but the failure now I'm pretty sure, was due to improper bearing clearance being set up on that rod end.


    EDIT: After I posted I went back to the links at the beginning of the thread. I didn't realize this had been presented as low mileage, potentially original vehicle. I still feel that my assessment of the parts is accurate but I will add that perhaps the engine was replaced/messed with very early on it's life or that maybe the failure was imminent. It's not like there aren't "bad" engines put into vehicle everyday on assembly lines. I said above that the parts looked "fresh" and generally show little signs wear, except for the bores, so maybe it was as it came from new. It honestly doesn't matter though. It's gotta be fixed now. Have the numbers been checked on the block?
    Last edited by qikgts; 02-17-2024 at 09:52 PM.
    '85 GT

  6. #256
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    I don't see anything that makes me think this engine has ever been apart. I also don't see anything that makes me believe it is as low mileage as it was claimed to be. The amount varnish build up on the pistons and internals looks more like an engine with much higher mileage. The rope rear main seal is a surprise, I didn't think those were even used anymore in 79, certainly not something someone would re-install if they had the engine apart, likely very few mechanics around who would even know how to pack one of those in properly. The two piece molded rubber seal will go right in in its place and seal better. The overall appearance of the outside of the engine also shows much more mileage than is claimed. Even at over 40 years since new, that kind of buildup is a mileage thing.

    What really surprises me is the rod bearing is not showing the level of damage I would expect based on the amount of wear on the crank. Usually the bearing shell is totally destroyed and the rod chewed up as well.

  7. #257
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    I think 302's started getting the 1 piece rear main in late '82. Don't know when they switched from the rope 2 piece to the rubber 2 piece.
    Last edited by qikgts; 02-18-2024 at 08:16 PM.
    '85 GT

  8. #258
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    Thanks for the explanations. Your expertise helps a non-expert learn. It is a bit of a mystery what could have happened to the car in it's history. If I can get a way with only a crankshaft and one piston rod for major part replacements needed to rebuild it I will be laughing.

    Do you think a bad or sustained overheating incident could have caused the varnishing (seems like baked on oil like in a dirty oven) and caused irreversible damage that could lead to a future premature failure?

    The odometer showed 11k miles on it when we bought it. Based on a lot of tear down to date and a lot of original parts and lack of wear on certain things had me leaning to the lower of 11k over believing 111k but who knows really.

    The block stamp does match the serial number and the engine does not look to have be removed before. To me the water pump and likely the intake were possibly off at one time.

    Here are the few stamps from the block.






    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3422.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3447.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3452.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...V9tTCao4ji.JPG

  9. #259
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    Man there was a lot of stuff on this engine and took a bit to get down to the bare block. No real hurry to get the engine to the shop. I'll figure out what I actually need to replace and have a plan ready.

    I have a lot of other work to do yet on the rest of the car so I can let this sit and move on.



    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3457.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3456.JPG

    The reduced bulk and weight are astonishing.


    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_2838.JPG
    Last edited by 82GTforME; 02-19-2024 at 11:10 AM.

  10. #260
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    I wonder if the car is neither 11k or 111k. Possibly some odometer adjustments have been made. The amount of internal and external buildup on the engine are pretty heavy for me to believe the lower number. If true, it was a very hard 11k.

  11. #261
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    Just my opinion, that's a lot of gunk build up on the engine for low miles. A leak is one thing but build up of gunk takes time, dirt and a leak. Maybe it has a lot of garage idle time.

    Check the pedals for wear. Check the brake pads front and rear for OEM markings. Rotors and drums too. Low miles might have original dated tires. Lots of other things show age from just sitting. I have 3 unrestored cars with less than 24k miles.
    Fox Body/3rd Gen MCA Gold Card Judge
    84 SVO 24K miles, 85 Mclaren Capri Vert. 84 GT Turbo Vert.
    88 Mclaren Mustang Vert 20K miles, 89 Mustang LX Sport Vert,
    03 Mach 1 7900 miles, 74 Mustang II, 69 Mustang, 67 Mustang, 07 GT500,
    14 Mustang CS/GT, 15 F150 FTX Tuscany, 16 F250 Crewcab, 67 Tbird 47K miles

  12. #262
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    Hey you all, KevinK, BMW Rider and qikgts, I appreciate the feedback. All of this is constructive and brings all of your vast experiences into play.

    While I was wanting this to have been a true survivor that fell on bad times and me thinking that (maybe still) or maybe now again leaning to a higher mileage original example, I am happy with the overall condition of the car and the parts I have removed and cleaned up and my path to the finished car. Much more up side than down from my perspective on this project so far.

    KevinK, one day I would love to talk restoration details with you!

  13. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW Rider View Post
    I wonder if the car is neither 11k or 111k. Possibly some odometer adjustments have been made. The amount of internal and external buildup on the engine are pretty heavy for me to believe the lower number. If true, it was a very hard 11k.
    You may have hit the nail on the head, Ed.
    '85 GT

  14. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME View Post
    Thanks for the explanations. Your expertise helps a non-expert learn. It is a bit of a mystery what could have happened to the car in it's history. If I can get a way with only a crankshaft and one piston rod for major part replacements needed to rebuild it I will be laughing.

    Do you think a bad or sustained overheating incident could have caused the varnishing (seems like baked on oil like in a dirty oven) and caused irreversible damage that could lead to a future premature failure?

    The odometer showed 11k miles on it when we bought it. Based on a lot of tear down to date and a lot of original parts and lack of wear on certain things had me leaning to the lower of 11k over believing 111k but who knows really.

    The block stamp does match the serial number and the engine does not look to have be removed before. To me the water pump and likely the intake were possibly off at one time.
    I really enjoy this hobby and the members (active and past) on this site are fantastic. Like many others here, I try to help when I feel I can confidently provide good info.

    I see nothing in the photos that would stop me from having the block and heads cleaned up at a machine shop and using them again. Your comment about just replacing the crank and one rod is likely going to be the basic outcome here, aside from parts cleaning, replacing the consumables and perhaps cleaning up the cylinders to put a good useable finish on the surface. Machine shop may want to overbore instead of hone. If that's the case then you'll need pistons too.

    These blocks and heads are pretty damn tough so I wouldn't worry about overheating having damaged them. The only real varnish I saw is on the recessed portions of the piston skirts and that in itself won't matter. For kicks, spray some Easy-Off oven cleaner on them, you may find it can be removed.

    Here's a decent micro dose of info about sludge and varnish.

    https://www.bcl.co.za/news/engine-deposits/

    For perspective, short trips leave condensation/water vapor in the crankcase and if the oil doesn't get changed frequently, it contaminates/kills the oil. Being in Canada, that car could have been driven in often in cold conditions just up to a corner store for a whole 10 minutes and then parked right back in a heated garage. That's a recipe for condensation and ultimately trashed oil and IMHO, would be the greatest contributor to the varnish. That's also a reason why PCV system maintenance is so important.

    I don't know if you plan to do the reassembly or not but if you do, be sure to have proper measuring tools on hand. Being off a few thousandths of an inch could cost you thousands of dollars to redo it all again.
    Last edited by qikgts; 02-21-2024 at 01:16 AM.
    '85 GT

  15. #265
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Was also thinking coolant related event(s) too. Wonder what the oil pressure was?
    Looks like coolant or ATF film on the block, which attracts sand.
    Wonder what the story is on the added trans cooler? Did a hose pop off?
    Something like a rad hose burst or leak. Car overheated.
    Engine to start to tick and guessing a logical least cost cause.
    Intake was removed to replace suspected lifters. Engine stayed in car.
    Problem was deeper and not a quick fix. Was worth a try, gave up, repairs stopped there.
    Lack of money, time, resources, another old car replaced with another for daily use.
    Color of paste in oil pan looks like metal. Test with a magnet just for fun.
    Debris in the pushrod pic looks like a piece of cork gasket.
    Has to be 111k using varnish buildup as a clue. Type and brand of oil did not help.
    Check for cyl walls for cracks. Low oil pressure will ruin them.

    Ech that master cyl gunk. How did that happen? Another important area needing attention.

    With a good engine, trans, and good going over everything else that car will be a joy to own.
    Car deserves and will get a better life. Sharp Blue definitely worth a spot in a car show.
    Dearborn shows for sure. Fly u and the car in...
    Reminds of Grabber Blue as a light color with pleasant visual impact.

    Great thread and pics for ongoing detective and diagnostic learning.
    Good way for all to get to know this special car.
    Last edited by gr79; 02-21-2024 at 09:31 PM.

  16. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by qikgts View Post
    I really enjoy this hobby and the members (active and past) on this site are fantastic. Like many others here, I try to help when I feel I can confidently provide good info.
    I agree and am the same where I want to learn and help. I was away from cars for 15 years and playing catch up on knowledge and lack it in the deeper engine things but have excellent mechanical awareness. I do not plan to do the short block assembly myself but would do everything else I hope.

    Quote Originally Posted by gr79 View Post
    Was also thinking coolant related event(s) too. Wonder what the oil pressure was? As I mentioned the water pump looks replaced and has what looks to be a reman stamp on it. I wondered why it was replaced - did the car actually have a bad overheating incident and the car was ran for a duration?

    Looks like coolant or ATF film on the block, which attracts sand. Good point. Based on my detective work I believe the car was winter driven for part of its life based on under engine compartment and underneath component corrosion on the leading edges (the car also had a set of winter tires on the 10 holes when we bought it too).

    Wonder what the story is on the added trans cooler? Did a hose pop off? I asked this early on. It looks to be an add on but the steel trans cooler lines look OEM

    Something like a rad hose burst or leak. Car overheated. All original hoses were still on the car.

    Engine to start to tick and guessing a logical least cost cause.
    Intake was removed to replace suspected lifters. Engine stayed in car.
    Problem was deeper and not a quick fix. Was worth a try, gave up, repairs stopped there. That's a great theory! I wondered if the moisture on a few of the head bolts indicated a blown head gasket but there do not look to be other signs it did fail.

    Lack of money, time, resources, another old car replaced with another for daily use. Could be. The black paint I saw on many items looks to have been to hide surface rust on bare parts and maybe be easier to sell? (I mean previous owner than Stangman

    Color of paste in oil pan looks like metal. Test with a magnet just for fun. Too late but should have!
    Debris in the pushrod pic looks like a piece of cork gasket.
    Has to be 111k using varnish buildup as a clue. Type and brand of oil did not help.
    Check for cyl walls for cracks. Low oil pressure will ruin them.

    Ech that master cyl gunk. How did that happen? Another important area needing attention. I have cleaned it all out. Like has been suggested, someone never did good maintenance on this car.

    With a good engine, trans, and good going over everything else that car will be a joy to own.
    Car deserves and will get a better life. Sharp Blue definitely worth a spot in a car show.
    Dearborn shows for sure. Fly u and the car in...
    Reminds of Grabber Blue as a light color with pleasant visual impact.

    Great thread and pics for ongoing detective and diagnostic learning.
    Good way for all to get to know this special car.
    Thanks for all the time to respond. The banter and discussions are good to have and I appreciate it as it adds perspective to my thoughts and ideas. The forum is slow these days so adding content and sharing is always good to draw more in.

    My tongue in cheek car general theory (hoping it was low mileage). Note I totally was wrong by quoting 11K miles. It was 16k on the odometer!

    Quote Originally Posted by STANGMAN116 View Post
    Odometer says 16k im trying to find a way to show its original and po was a very elderly couple I doubt drove it very much..
    - Grandma gets a nice car that is only used in winter.
    - Grandma is not a good driver and backs into something (damage to the rear bumper) and also sideswipes something (passenger side damage) over the years
    - Grandpa is not a good maintainer and they don't change the oil and the car also overheats.
    - Ford changes the water pump and lifters as the car is ticking.
    - No more warranty and the car is garaged (last oil change 2011 according to the writing on the oil filter)
    - Car is bought in 2013 but damage is done.
    Last edited by 82GTforME; 02-21-2024 at 11:36 PM.

  17. #267
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    Default K-Member

    Onward we go!

    In order to access the engine compartment and the front frame areas, this was coming out like I did on the last restore.





    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3498.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3501.JPG

    Black paint on the under side for cover up.





    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3509.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3504.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3505.JPG

    In my usual fashion I cleaned the fasteners with my laborious methods. I am jealous of Chucks ultrasonic cleaner. I think I need one and see one in my future but they get spendy on Amazon and up to 30 litre (6.5 gallon) capacity and I think I might like the larger size. Not sure my overall needs on my current build or future...




    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3508.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3545.JPG

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck W View Post
    The US cleaner itself isn't anything too fancy. It has a decent capacity in it and I got it for free (it was going to be tossed at work!)



    I just use a SimpleGreen mixture in mine, but even distilled water or such would work. The controller is on the shelf behind it, and this one is heated as well.

    (If you're not familiar with how they work in general, see HERE)

    I've used it to clean carbs and other car and bike parts.

    It is very satisfying, that's for sure.

  18. #268

  19. #269
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    Random pics of a slightly dirty transmission. I'll do a quick scrape job on the floor and when I get the block off my engine stand I'll put this up and get it better and inspect for what needs to be done.






    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3604.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3603.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3602.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3526.JPG

  20. #270
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    Default Exhaust

    With the transmission, out came the single exhaust.

    Looks all original back to the cut off and welded on Magnaflow muffler. No tail pipe. The underside of the catalytic convertor looks quickly painted with black paint like other things. The Y pipe looks in pretty good shape. Our Tangerine Coupe had 60,000km (41k miles) on it when we saved it and the Y crotch was almost corroded through. This again kind of has me on the fence about the mileage.






    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3517.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3518.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3522.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3523.JPG

  21. #271
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    With the engine out and torn down plus the transmission out I guess I am down to the last firewall items to remove and then prepare what I can prior to a good wash down. Then on to body work and prep in there.

    Remember I didn't get a chance to get the car to the coin wash to degrease and wash the engine compartment due to the engine knocking so I need to do it manually.

    I tried soaking it with penetrating oil and even one with a bit of heat but I still could not get the lower steering shaft out of the upper. I ended up removing the upper with it through the firewall grommet and getting it out in the vise with more forceful method. Not sure if the bolt was overtightened and crushed the female end in.

    I then did the initial clean up on it and the results were pretty good. I only put effort on the lower part.





    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3563.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3564.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3577.JPG

    Speaking of the big grommet; I decided to remove it this time. The foam ring that would seal around the shaft has deteriorated and is basically non-existent. I am going to try to McGyver something new to replace the foam and reuse the part seeing as it is decent otherwise.




    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3570.JPG
    https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...E/IMG_3607.JPG

  22. #272

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    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME View Post
    The foam ring that would seal around the shaft has deteriorated and is basically non-existent. I am going to try to McGyver something new to replace the foam....

    A slice of the neoprene-ish rubber pipe insulation from the depot comes to mind.... no idea if it's the right size or if it'd even work though. They got several sizes too. Maybe grease the inside where the steering shaft rotates against it. That McGyver enough?

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/K-Flex-1-in-x-6-ft-Rubber-Self-Seal-Pipe-Wrap-Insulation-6RTL048118-HD/306737599
    Last edited by 85GTGuy; 03-02-2024 at 03:02 AM.
    1985 Mustang GT (Mothballed...Desired restomod parts acquired...Top of my project list for my 2024 retirement!)

  23. #273
    FEP Super Member Blainer's Avatar
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    Awesome progress Darran. I found that auto shifter indicator you were after awhile ago. Did you still need it?

    Sent from my motorola one 5G ace using Tapatalk
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  24. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85GTGuy View Post
    A slice of the neoprene-ish rubber pipe insulation from the depot comes to mind.... no idea if it's the right size or if it'd even work though. They got several sizes too. Maybe grease the inside where the steering shaft rotates against it. That McGyver enough?

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/K-Flex-1-in-x-6-ft-Rubber-Self-Seal-Pipe-Wrap-Insulation-6RTL048118-HD/306737599
    That's a good idea. I have some closed cell packing material as well. I used some 1/4" thick stuff to make brake shield gaskets before and I have some 2" thick stuff too.

    It looks like the original is more "sponge" like or porous. Plus it should be a bit flexible and not create resistance! Good thing I have some time to think about it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blainer View Post
    Awesome progress Darran. I found that auto shifter indicator you were after awhile ago. Did you still need it?
    I sure do! Hopefully the fluorescent is nice and bright! If you happen to have a nice green light filter, the light shield for the shifter column or a nice gear indicating plastic lens that would be for bonus points!

    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME View Post
    Bad: The shifter bezel was only held on by two of the four screws. Once I removed it, I find the shifter plastic indicator broken.




    http://s1337.photobucket.com/user/82...9zhw8.jpg.html
    http://s1337.photobucket.com/user/82...fzhec.jpg.html]

  25. #275
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Material like this works for me. Wrap column while stuffing foam layers into boot.

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/M-D-Buil...1&gclsrc=aw.ds

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