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Thread: Horsepower

  1. #1

    Default Horsepower

    Hi All,
    I have just finished my 302 build and would like a guess on HP.
    302 +0.30
    Forged 10.0-1 Pistons with moly rings
    Heavily worked 351W 1.94 & 1.60 58cc chambers
    Scatt 5.090 3/8" Rods
    Ford X-303 Roller cam with trick flow springs, locks, retainers.
    Roller 1.6 ss rocker arms
    Edelbrock Torker 289 matched to heads
    Holley 4150 650cfm.
    Any guesses...

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    X303 hurts your area under the curve on that setup. Just a little gain at peak but loss down low Id venture to guess.

    heavily worked W heads often behave about like a GT40 head. I’ve seen those put as much as 360 to the wheels but only know if one N/A car that did that much.

    Where your A/F and timing are at and what exhaust is there, etc, will all make a huge difference.

    Everything right I’m going to guess 340 at the crank as that’s what the most similar crate motor makes.

    And I’ll be VERY happy for you if it’s way north of that and happy to be wrong.....

    Do you have a HP number goal or an ET goal?

    there are a few documented Stock E7 Head N/A cars back in the day that ran 11.99’s simply with being lighter, chassis/suspension work, and gears.

    seems to me the stage 3 dominators with solid roller cams revved past 8000 and turned 11’s on slicks in N/A form too. Ask me how I learned what a dominator is sometime. Lol..... let’s just say I wouldn’t run him back after he lost the first one by missing a gear..... lol.
    Last edited by erratic50; 07-16-2018 at 04:29 PM.

  3. #3

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    Are you going to get it dyno tested and give the winner a prize? That X cam does not help your cause much in an otherwise pretty mild 306 I wouldn't think. I agree that @340 is probably in the ballpark.

  4. #4
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    If you haven’t bought the stuff and built it yet, pick a better cam.

    Stock HO with 1.7:1 rockers will stomp the X cam numbers very likely.

    If buying one.....Flowtech is my primary recommendation. I’ve seen reports on their results and they are out of this world.

    Or call up Andersen or Comp and have their techs help you. X cams aren’t good for much other than demolished seats and broken valve springs in many cases.

  5. #5

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    350hp ballpark is what I am looking for.
    a/f carb jetting and timing will be worked out when it goes to dyno
    Running true 2.5"dual exhaust
    T-5 with 3.55 rear gear
    The heads came out of Whiteland IN (BOB GLIDEN 1975) bob was personal friend...
    Dyno to come soon, winner gets a wooden nickel
    Last edited by ThunderStruck; 08-12-2019 at 10:43 PM.

  6. #6
    FEP Power Member Broncojunkie's Avatar
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    What's the casting date on the heads? Just curious. I have a couple sets (c9 302 heads and d0-c 351w heads). The 351w heads are sitting on the shelf but I'm running the ported c9's on the wife's 88gt (stock short block). It feels like it's making pretty good power but I haven't had it on the dyno. Supporting mods are maf conversion, 24lb injectors and maf, 75mm (iirc) throttle body and aftermarket spacer, explorer intake, b303 w/1.7 rockers, bbk cold air intake, and maybe a couple other things I'm forgetting. On street tires with 3.73 gears, it's hard to pull away from a stop sign without going sideways lol
    Last edited by Broncojunkie; 07-16-2018 at 07:15 PM.

  7. #7

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    The heads are D0OE.
    I don't want the tires to spin, I want to earth to rotate a little faster

  8. #8

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    will going to 1.7 rockers help the x303

  9. #9
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Check PV clearance with the X303 and 1.7’s, IMO

    id probably go Stock HO roller with 1.7’s if it’s mostly Stock valve train parts. Be sure springs are heavy enough for roller lifter and pushrod and rocket mass if you do.

    thread in oil galley plugs and oil pressure jacked to the moon or hydro roller lifters shimmed within 0.020 will help find some RPM. Just make sure the rods and hardware are up to the task.

    You may get what you are hoping for with those heads— maybe.

    D0OE is what I had on my Galaxie when I was a teen. They are not a bad head. Very sought after before the AL craze and the GT40’s came around.

    360 degree offenhauser intake with a Torino based cam grind (similar to our HO cams but a flat tapper profile) plus mild highschool kid (me) port work and a 650 double pumper with headers and duals ran good. Best hit was a Thermoquad linkage 4 barrel off my dad’s 66 suburban but he wouldn’t let me keep it. Carter AFB — that moaning old bitch that it was — also took that old gun boat with a 351W into the mid 13’s...... Damn thing would go way faster than any fool would ever drive it too! Lol

    It didn’t run hard long before the bottom end started to get tired but it was a blast while it lasted. Found the body of that old ford with full interior and body panels minus motor up in SD 2 years ago. If I had anywhere to put it, it would be mine again. Was my Grandpa’s first new car and his very last car — he wanted me to have it after he died. He was very anal about the car but I had spent a small fortune on the car and seeing it bugged the hell out of my Grandma so that’s when I decided to sell it and got a very good price for it. Traded a Four Eyed gun boat for a four eyed 86GT .... and I still have my 86GT today

    The thing i love about our foxes is they take an absolute beating and put up respectable performance numbers while doing so and dont break the bank on arts.

  10. #10

    Default

    The valve train is most likely the strongest part of this build.

  11. #11

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    Trick Flow went through a complete denial phase many, many years ago where their parts were just junk and they continued to deny any knowledge of it but yet if you called them, they would just send you brand new replacements without question or asking for the old parts back. So something was obviously up then. I do believe to the best of my knowledge that they have LONG since cleared all that up. Hopefully that is still the case and you are correct about that.

  12. #12

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    At the crank: 340hp @ 6000rpm & 320ft-lbs @ 5000rpm.

    A half a point more compression, 10 more degrees duration @ 0.050" (and no hydraulic roller cam, so it will rev to 6500rpm and beyond... too bad that stout valve train won't be able to be taken advantage of), and 100 more cfm, and 400hp with a 302 gets easily eclipsed.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  13. #13
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Yea..... if we were talking EFI that would be a different ballgame too.

    ”crappy” E6 heads flow 155/cyl intake and “good” E7’s flow 160. Meanwhile the stock EFI intake flows 110 front and rear, 130 on all other holes..... the Stock carbureted intakes werent a hell of a lot better either.

    Meanwhile clevor/Yates/Boss/M/Cleveland style heads flow 300..... but have tons of detonation problems

    Just looked — there are documented cases of aggressively ported D0OE head reaching 230 CFM on the intake side. Combustion chamber size is the big variable and of course hardened seats require for unleaded but that’s 400HP+ territory if everything else is also done to that degree. That’s 11 second territory.

    A decent set of GT40’s will flow 180. Porting goes past 200

    just found an old Hotrod magazine article where they made 380HP with D0OE ported with oversized valves added. Tons of work but the reward with the right cam was big. Nearly double at a time when guys would celebrate their +15HP underdrive pulleys.

    my 351W had to have been up there— it was such a boat — so massive. Nobody at my school my jr or Sr year had a car that could beat it, so I did the logical thing my sr year and bought a quicker and faster car so I could finally stomp my older brother too. Lol. He still hasn’t beat the old four eyed fox all these years later and it’s not for lack of trying. He just keeps trying to do it with the wrong brands and platforms.

    good luck on your build!!!! Let us know how it goes!

  14. #14

    Default

    he heads
    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    At the crank: 340hp @ 6000rpm & 320ft-lbs @ 5000rpm.

    A half a point more compression, 10 more degrees duration @ 0.050" (and no hydraulic roller cam, so it will rev to 6500rpm and beyond... too bad that stout valve train won't be able to be taken advantage of), and 100 more cfm, and 400hp with a 302 gets easily eclipsed.
    In the garage I have a 351W lighting roller short block that will use these heads, but that will be winter project...

  15. #15
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    You gonna tune it so we know?

    I think most estimates here are high. I'd put you at 290-300 FWHP.

    I have had a WORKED set of D0OE heads, and they were better than an GT40/P head I've ever ran, but the cam selection leaves a lot on the table.
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  16. #16
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ourobos View Post
    You gonna tune it so we know?

    I think most estimates here are high. I'd put you at 290-300 FWHP.

    I have had a WORKED set of D0OE heads, and they were better than an GT40/P head I've ever ran, but the cam selection leaves a lot on the table.
    Completely agree — cam is where it’s at and an X is not really “it” for getting past 340.

    The variable is the port job. there are documented stock shortblock 302’s with AL heads and a decent induction and headers with 1.7:1 rockers making 400HP and 400lbs at the crank with a rev range of 6000+ but they flow 225+ CFM on the intake side and the exhaust restrictions are eliminated in order to do it.

  17. #17

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    Yep, a good ported/polished/valved set of early 351W castings (or other early small-chambered Ford castings - the Joe Sherman Racing Engines 400hp 302, with early 289 heads (10.54:1 CR) worked over, Isky flat-tappet 280H Megacam (232-degrees @ 0.050"), and Edelbrock 750cfm carburetor = 400hp w/Victor Jr intake, 380hp w/RPM intake... the intakes were ported/smoothed some too...) can still hand a surprising wallop to even the entry-level aftermarket cylinder head offerings.
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 07-17-2018 at 08:47 AM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  18. #18

    Default

    OK Guys
    Lets get some recommendation on roller cams that are capable of putting out a solid 350+HP with redline around 6500.
    I have a set of Howards Cam rollers lifters that are good to 6500+ so want to stay with roller cam.
    Thanks,
    Ed

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