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  1. #1

    Default 1985 cranks but won't start

    I've been trying to follow cranks but won't start videos all over the internet for the past few hours and have had no luck, so starting my own. My 1985 was starting consistently (but struggling a bit to start for awhile). Recently it doesn't start at all, just cranks and cranks.

    - I know the battery is good
    - I hear the fuel pump working and you can hear that in the attached video
    - I tried pulling a spark plug and setting it on a ground, i get a pink spark that looks somewhat weak

    Here's the video: https://vimeo.com/280007508

    What should I do?

  2. #2
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    What is your tach doing??

    Fuel, spark and compression.. Need those three.

    I assume this is carbureted with a mechanical pump? Splash a small bit of gas into the carb, see if it will start. If so, you have a fuel delivery issue.. If not, I'd lean towards a spark issue somewhere in the ignition system.
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ourobos View Post
    What is your tach doing??

    Fuel, spark and compression.. Need those three.

    I assume this is carbureted with a mechanical pump? Splash a small bit of gas into the carb, see if it will start. If so, you have a fuel delivery issue.. If not, I'd lean towards a spark issue somewhere in the ignition system.
    No idea on the tach.

    Yes carbureted. Dumb question, but no idea what it means to splash gas into the carb.

  4. #4
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    Take the air filter off the carb, so you can see it's openings.. Take a small, few oz. of gasoline and pour directly into carburetor. Try to start it immediately afterwards.. Did it start and run a few seconds and die? If so, you're not getting fuel to it by normal means, check lines and pump and filters.

    If it made no difference, you've likely got a spark issue, coil, ignition, distributor, plugs wires etc. possibly
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  5. #5

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    So it started up after I poured some gas in. I'm trying to swap out the fuel filter, but I can't for the life of me find it. Where is it on a 1985?

  6. #6
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    Could be up near the carb, could be near the tank could be both. Trace it back from carb
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ourobos View Post
    Could be up near the carb, could be near the tank could be both. Trace it back from carb
    Is that even the right problem for me to be looking for?

  8. #8

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    Are you giving it one pump (press accelerator to floor, once, let off) of gas before turning the key? That at least gives a shot of fuel to get a cold engine running, and/or sets the choke to get a cold engine started... fuel injection really has diminished the human race, lol...

    It may or may not be an issue, but I believe the fuel filter is inside the front float bowl, and you find it when you put a 1-inch wrench on the large nut fitting in the float bowl, hold that steady, and undo the smaller nut to remove the fuel line, then remove the 1-inch wrench fitting with the 1-inch wrench... and there may be a spring-loaded filter inside there... don't quote me... trace the fuel line from the carburetor down to the fuel pump... maybe there's an inline fuel filter...? ....
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 07-14-2018 at 07:38 PM.
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  9. #9

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    On the 4180C Motorcraft carb (factory stock) the fuel filter is located in the fuel inlet on the primary fuel bowl. Disconnect the fuel line (5/8" flair nut) then remove the inlet connector ( 1" black nut ) and behind that you'll find the fuel filter. Note: it's spring loaded so go slow when removing the filter; you don't want to have it shoot out and lose the spring.

    I see walking tall beat me to it.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by JacksAO View Post
    On the 4180C Motorcraft carb (factory stock) the fuel filter is located in the fuel inlet on the primary fuel bowl. Disconnect the fuel line (5/8" flair nut) then remove the inlet connector ( 1" black nut ) and behind that you'll find the fuel filter. Note: it's spring loaded so go slow when removing the filter; you don't want to have it shoot out and lose the spring.

    I see walking tall beat me to it.
    Mike
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    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  11. #11
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PirateToast View Post
    Is that even the right problem for me to be looking for?
    Well you're not getting fuel, most common suspects are bad filter, bad pump or clogged lines.. Why not start with the simplest consumable item?
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  12. #12
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    It is an 85 , that makes the fuel pump 33 years 9ld . And few ever change the filter . Start there .
    clowns to the left of me , Jokers to the right

  13. #13

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    Thanks for all the help folks, this is my first project car, always wanted to get into it so here's me trying. I had a hard enough time figuring out how to change the oil today!

    Anyways... a few things:

    1. Assuming this is the fuel filter location you're all referencing? https://imgur.com/a/SD5FbuP
    2. And this is the type of filter I'd need to put in? https://bit.ly/2KU3xAh So this doesn't seem like something they'd have in stock at O'reilly or Autozone eh? Guess I'll have to wait a few days. I also heard about adding an inline filter as well, is that a thing or is that just for fuel injected engines?
    3. What kind of fuel pump would you recommend?

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    Are you giving it one pump (press accelerator to floor, once, let off) of gas before turning the key? That at least gives a shot of fuel to get a cold engine running, and/or sets the choke to get a cold engine started... fuel injection really has diminished the human race, lol...

    It may or may not be an issue, but I believe the fuel filter is inside the front float bowl, and you find it when you put a 1-inch wrench on the large nut fitting in the float bowl, hold that steady, and undo the smaller nut to remove the fuel line, then remove the 1-inch wrench fitting with the 1-inch wrench... and there may be a spring-loaded filter inside there... don't quote me... trace the fuel line from the carburetor down to the fuel pump... maybe there's an inline fuel filter...? ....
    Also you may be right, I haven't been pumping at all. I've never owned a non fuel injected car before! So I'm supposed to pump every time?

  15. #15
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    Pumping? The idea is not pumping but rather to set up the caburator to make it ready to run. A cold engine needs additional setting to keep it going until it warms up. Pressing the gas pedal to the floor does the following manual actions:
    - closes the choke for fuel enrichment.
    - sets the high idle cam to on
    -enables any dashpots to prevent stalling

    Reading the owner’s manual can be enlighting.

    The 85 EFI/CFI is basically a carburetor with a fuel injector on top.
    Last edited by KevinK; 07-15-2018 at 02:43 PM.
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  16. #16
    FEP Senior Member 854vragtop's Avatar
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    Is your car a 5 speed or auto? We still haven't determined if your car is carbureted or throttle body injected. If it's a bone stock carbureted car, you wouldn't hear the fuel pump working, since it would be a mechanical pump driven off the engine that only works when the engine is rotating.

    Like the others have said, if it's cranking and it won't start, it's either a fuel or ignition problem.

    Quick way to check whether the ignition is working, but you don't have fuel on either a throttle body injected car (auto trans) or a 4 barrel car (5 speed): Buy a can of starter fluid, spray down the front barrels for 2-3 seconds, replace the air cleaner, try to start it. If it fires up, runs for a few seconds and dies, you know your ignition is working, but you have a fuel issue.

    Assuming it's a 5 speed with a 4 barrel carb, pull off the air cleaner lid, peer down the front barrels, and rotate the throttle linkage a few times. Do you see two streams of fuel squirting out the accelerator pump squirters like the first two seconds of this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cim0bX5nY-E Ignore the video beyond the first 3 seconds, since it's showing a problem with this guys accelerator pump system having fuel sucked out of it. If not, your front fuel bowl definitely isn't getting fuel and it's most likely your fuel pump.

    Fuel filters don't just clog completely all of a sudden. It's a gradual process of clogging up and you would first notice it if your car was stumbling or missing at steady state cruising or long acceleration runs, since the fuel level in the carb bowls wouldn't be able to keep up with the amount of fuel demanded by the engine.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by PirateToast View Post
    Thanks for all the help folks, this is my first project car, always wanted to get into it so here's me trying. I had a hard enough time figuring out how to change the oil today!

    Anyways... a few things:

    1. Assuming this is the fuel filter location you're all referencing? https://imgur.com/a/SD5FbuP
    2. And this is the type of filter I'd need to put in? https://bit.ly/2KU3xAh So this doesn't seem like something they'd have in stock at O'reilly or Autozone eh? Guess I'll have to wait a few days. I also heard about adding an inline filter as well, is that a thing or is that just for fuel injected engines?
    3. What kind of fuel pump would you recommend?
    1. yes
    2. yes
    3. Adding an inline filter...... no way would I do that. I've owned my 85 GT 5.0 since it was new (125k miles) and have never used or needed one.

  18. #18
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    The accelerator pump on your carb gives the motor a shot of fuel every time you step on the gas to open the throttle. If you don’t floor it once and backoff when it’s cold before you try to fire it you will have a very hard time.

    when warm a little 1/2 shot is often all that’s needed.

    if the accelerator pump is weak it may need 2-3 pumps or a few cranks to build fuel pressure then a few pumps.

    if a float sticks too high it causes a very flooded motor. When that happens you have to hold the accelerator to the floor to get it to fire.

    if the fuel pump is out or filter is clogged it won’t matter what you do it won’t fire.

    double check your fuel lines too. They might be sucking air instead of gas

  19. #19
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    There is gas in the tank, right?

    While you've got the fuel line disconnected, hook a hose to it, then run the hose into some container, and crank the engine. You should get a pint or more in a very short time.
    Last edited by darkd0r; 07-15-2018 at 03:29 PM.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    ... fuel injection really has diminished the human race, lol...

    ....
    I will say it takes a lot of stones to purchase one of these if you don't know the first thing about how a car works. You sir, have my complete respect. If you're married I bet your wife has been non-stop "I TOLD YOU THIS WAS STUPID...." the entire time, LOL. Everyone has to start somewhere. I can't tell where you are. Can you tell us where you live. Maybe someone on here is close enough to come show you a few things and help out? That's what makes the hobby great.
    Last edited by homer302; 07-15-2018 at 05:36 PM.

  21. #21
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    To expand on my previous post regarding fuel pump volume, after minimal research, Chilton manual for 1985 T-bird CFI says 10 ounces in 10 seconds using full 12v via a test jumper. Volume while cranking would be less as voltage would be lower.

    Clymer manual for 1984 2.8l Bronco II says 10 revolutions cranking should produce enough fuel to run the engine. I would guess that's enough to fill the float chamber. Actual volume test measurement is with fuel line tee'd to container, engine idle for 30 seconds should be about 16 ounces.

    If you run out of gas in a carburetor-equipped car, add fuel to tank, then prime the engine as noted above, sometimes more than once may be needed, because it will need many engine revolutions for a mechanical pump to get the gas to the carb. Extended cranking can burn up the starter or run down the battery. In general, don't crank the engine for more than 30 seconds, then let the starter cool for 5 minutes. A properly tuned carb engine will start in less than 5 seconds. There are always exceptions, of course: starting a flooded engine or extreme cold weather.

    And speaking of a flooded engine, floor the gas pedal and hold it there, even if you stop cranking it. The reason for this is that every time the throttle is opened, the carburetor accelerator pump squirts more gas into the intake manifold, which makes the flooding worse.

    Extremely cold weather starting may require pumping the throttle to get the richer mixture needed for starting. Each vehicle behaves differently.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by homer302 View Post
    I will say it takes a lot of stones to purchase one of these if you don't know the first thing about how a car works. You sir, have my complete respect. If you're married I bet your wife has been non-stop "I TOLD YOU THIS WAS STUPID...." the entire time, LOL. Everyone has to start somewhere. I can't tell where you are. Can you tell us where you live. Maybe someone on here is close enough to come show you a few things and help out? That's what makes the hobby great.
    That was a nice way to put it. I did not mean to be rude with my comment. I have often found it helpful to read the basic info when having basic problems. Yes, it’s often later on when I’m stumped and not in the beginning when I should have.
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