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  1. #26
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    If I followed your thread correctly, you’ve upgrade both front and rear brakes. I run a M1858 on my 86GT which is a Lincoln part number with a 1” bore and SAE lines. One line required an adapter.

    There is a Torino master cyl that is also 1” that is a direct boltup to the existing lines and it’s a direct fit with the stock booster. I don’t recall the number righ off the top of my head.

    One of those would be my next move if I were in your shoes.

    good luck!

  2. #27

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    The master I'm running now came out of a '94 V6 Mustang at the boneyard. So, it SHOULD match the application of everything else I have on the car now (except I still have a Fox pedal box). That's the main reason I haven't replaced it yet. My thought is that it's leaking internally and that's causing the spongy pedal and weird low pressure going to the rears. I ordered a '94 V6/GT master from Rockauto. On there, it says the bore is 1 1/16". I'll probably adjust the rod out a bit on the booster too to gain some pedal height.

    So, you think a bore size change is in order?
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  3. #28

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    That's the one I have. In fact I have 94 gt brakes from the calipers all the way back up to, and including the m.c. and a 79 fox booster. When I bleed mine I forgot one rear bleeder and when I came back from the kids soccer practice it had done it by itself. I have not added an adjustable prop yet, but my brakes feel pretty good. I will admit they dont have quite the rock hard feel of my newer vehicles.Even panicked them once or twice for giggles and fun. Most of this doesn't help you except the parts list is the same

  4. #29
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Back to air in brake lines.
    Had a similar problem once with my Ranger.
    New hyd clutch slave. Uses brake fluid. Trans shop could not bleed all the air out.
    Wound up having Ford dealer do it.
    Think they reverse pressure bled it. Force fluid backwards up to the slave reservoir.
    However they did it, solved the problem.

  5. #30

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    The 1994 GT/V6 m/c is 1.063" diameter.

    The vacuum booster pushrod can not be adjusted to change the pedal height. That will cause all kinds of problems.

    For the m/c to have an internal leak, that means that fluid will come out of it. If there is no fluid coming out the back of it, there is almost zero chance that this is happening. Just remove the pistons from the back and look at the seals and inspect the bore for dirt and corrosion.

    95% sure that there is air in your brake system.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  6. #31

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    Maybe I'll start looking for a place to bring it...

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  7. #32
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    There is an adjustable brake rod available afaik.

  8. #33

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    Installed the new master cylinder today using a method I learned from a Scotty Kilmer video. What you do is, just install the thing. No need to bench bleed. Then fill the reservoir, crack the lines open and press the brake pedal down just like you're bleeding brakes. Hold it there with a long pry bar, close the lines, and let the pedal go. That's it! You just do that 4-5 times and you're done. It sucks the fluid up into the cylinder. Pretty cool! I don't know why more people don't know about this!

    Not sure about the results yet, it's wet out today so I couldn't drive it. Still probably taking it to a shop to have them double check it.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  9. #34

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    I covered that in post #14.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  10. #35

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    Same idea, yep. You deserve the credit.

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  11. #36
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Yea, the only caution I’ll give is if you are doing this with a buddy instead of yourself with a stick, safety goggles are a must for the guy under the hood. Brake fluid in the eyes is no fun!

    This is how my dad taught me to change master cylinders and we have gotten a face full of fluid before.

    Its especially bad if you leave the lid off!

  12. #37

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    Haha, yep I could see that. I ended up sticking a piece of sheetmetal between the master and engine to protect my nice pretty parts from getting sprayed.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  13. #38

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    How's the pedal feel with the engine off? Are you able to pump the pedal a few times and have it be rock solid with little give? Or is there still some pedal movement and sponginess?

    I've never had good luck vacuum/pressure bleeding a new system. Never seems to get the air out. It works fine for routine fluid flushes in an established system but for new brakes I prefer the 2-man method. You get a pretty good stream which does wonders getting the air out.

    Out of habit, I always bleed with rear prop valve full open (100% to rear) although if jack says it doesn't matter then I'm good with that.

    Are you running the stock booster or the larger SN booster?

    You should still have decent flow to the rear calipers when bleeding. I can get a pretty good stream to my rears although never as strong as the fronts. If you still see air bubbles present in one line, you might be leaking air in from the bleeder.

    Im most curious about engine off pedal feel. High and rock hard?
    Mike
    -'88 Mustang LX 5.0L

  14. #39

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    The pedal feels great with the engine off. Maybe even more so since I installed the new master, and bled at the master like I did.

    The booster is the SN95 one. It was a b***h to install!

    I'm actually curious if my flow at the rears is better now with the new master/bleed. Took the car for a ride today, and I'm not 100% sure, but it seems like an improvement! Have to drive it more to be sure.

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  15. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrEFI View Post
    The pedal feels great with the engine off. Maybe even more so since I installed the new master, and bled at the master like I did.

    The booster is the SN95 one. It was a b***h to install!

    I'm actually curious if my flow at the rears is better now with the new master/bleed. Took the car for a ride today, and I'm not 100% sure, but it seems like an improvement! Have to drive it more to be sure.

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

    Have you completed the bed-in procedure for the pads? Good to hear your pedal feel improved with the new MC. Hopefully with some proper bedding in, your brake feel will improve to the point you feel confident in the system. Good luck
    Mike
    -'88 Mustang LX 5.0L

  16. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang5L5 View Post
    Have you completed the bed-in procedure for the pads? Good to hear your pedal feel improved with the new MC. Hopefully with some proper bedding in, your brake feel will improve to the point you feel confident in the system. Good luck
    Thanks! Yeah, these brakes have got a good 600 miles on them or so. I'm going to take the car to a dirt road in the next few days and see if my rears are now working properly and they lock up and bring the rear end around. They SHOULD with the proportioning valve all the way open. I have a feeling they might.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  17. #42

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    Did the dirt road test today. The car stops perfectly straight. Checked the adjustable proportioning valve, and yes, it is, in fact, still wide open. The brakes are 1 to 1, front to rear. That just can't be right!

    The feel is good, and the function is decent. I feel like it's the best it's ever been, but I can't be sure because there were looooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggggg periods of time in between all the stages of this project, so it's been impossible to make a comparison.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  18. #43

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    Okay, so try this on for size. I recently saw this video from Eric the Car Guy about having trouble bleeding rear brakes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dnas9PN9cCs

    He has a clogged distribution block or something and it made my thoughts go back to this thing NavyCat told me about.

    Quote Originally Posted by NAVYCAT View Post
    so what happens is that when you bleed the brakes the valve in the distribution block moves and so you never get a good bleed as they say.... most after market brake dealers sell them.
    go on to CPP website part # PV-TOOL (combination valve tool) I had to use it to bleed my '69 falcon brakes and i think i had to tap the tool to fit as it was a different thread. I can send you a picture if you want
    You need this tool to put into the proportioning valve to keep this internal movable shaft from moving while you're bleeding brakes. I couldn't find an exact diagram of my prop valve, but it IS this style with the switch and stuff.



    I dismissed the idea of needing the tool at first because my original prop valve has been "gutted". It's been so long since I did that, I don't remember what all I pulled out. But now I'm thinking maybe that shaft is still in there making trouble! What do you guys think?
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  19. #44

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    Brad,

    Your valve will look like the one linked below.

    https://www.allfordmustangs.com/foru...rake-valve.jpg

    The correct name for the part is a combination valve. This is because it has a proportioning valve (5) and a pressure differential valve (shuttle valve) (3). The purpose of the differential valve is to illuminate the brake light switch and seal off one brake system in the case of a leak.

    Each valve is accessed by one of the two different nuts. I would remove the nut at the firewall end. Remove all of the guts, clean the parts in brake cleaner as well as the inside of the valve body very well. Then reassemble. This will allow the shuttle valve to move smoothly.

    When there is a lot of air in one brake system and not the other system, it can be difficult to bleed because the pressure differential triggers the shuttle valve to move and seal off the system with air in it, thus stopping all flow to it. Cleaning out the valve has fixed this in a couple cases I've seen.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  20. #45

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    Thanks! That makes a lot of sense. Here are some pics of mine. It might be an oddball because it's an ES or something, but it looks a little different. Engineering number stamped on it is D8BC-2B328-BB. I'm sure the idea is the same though.





    What do you think about eliminating it entirely? I've seen a few cars where they just stuck a tee and a union in there instead of the valve. Or a line lock...
    Last edited by ZephyrEFI; 10-23-2018 at 05:46 PM.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  21. #46
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Perfect time to add a line lock and move the adjustable proportioning valve down where the factory proportioning valve is.

  22. #47

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    Brad,

    In your case, you could remove the entire combination valve. For the front brake lines a 3/8"-24 SAE inverted flare tee will work. For the rear brake lines, you'll need a 7/16"-24 SAE inverted flare coupler. The only downside to this is that with it removed, the safety feature of the differential pressure valve is removed. When the differential pressure valve is in place, if one brake system has a leak after the combination valve, the shuttle seals off that system, so there will be more pedal travel available for the other brake system.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  23. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
    Brad,

    In your case, you could remove the entire combination valve. For the front brake lines a 3/8"-24 SAE inverted flare tee will work. For the rear brake lines, you'll need a 7/16"-24 SAE inverted flare coupler. The only downside to this is that with it removed, the safety feature of the differential pressure valve is removed. When the differential pressure valve is in place, if one brake system has a leak after the combination valve, the shuttle seals off that system, so there will be more pedal travel available for the other brake system.
    Cool, thanks. I guess it would certainly be easier to leave it. I'll take it out, clean it, and get one of those CPP things for when I bleed it again.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  24. #49
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    qikgts's Avatar
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    Here's a link for some new o rings and seals to use when you reassemble...

    https://www.musclecarresearch.com/va...-E0ZC-2B328-AA
    '85 GT

  25. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by qikgts View Post
    Here's a link for some new o rings and seals to use when you reassemble...

    https://www.musclecarresearch.com/va...-E0ZC-2B328-AA
    Awesome, thank you! Didn't even think of that.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

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