distributor not installing

[Magnetic82]

Greetings:

I'm still at it after fourteen months. I'm now replacing the distributor and cannot get the thing into the engine. Seems to hang up on something. I can't get the old one back in either. Upon removal of said old diz, I heard a metallic clink. Looking down in the hole it appears the oil pump shaft either moved or something. Never had this problem before; I had to remove the diz for another repair and it went back in just fine. And the new unit is a rebuilt Ford diz, same part number and matches right up. Here's some photos.

The shaft is difficult to see but doesn't appear centered. But it does move somewhat.

This shot really isn't any better.

That's how far in the diz goes.

Does the oil shaft move? It appears to be about half an inch "up" inside the round guide component. Does it need to go down further? If so, how do I accomplish that? SO far I used a 1/4" deep socket taped to an extension.
Any ideas are most welcome. If the diz goes back in and works, the 86GT is back on the road.
Thanks all.

[homer302]

You posted some good pictures but you are right, it's still hard to see what is going on. I've always just grabbed a hold of the rotor while I was trying to set the diz and just wiggled it back and forth until it went down. I guess at this point all I can think of to suggest would be to unplug the coil so it won't accidentally start and either with a socket on the crank bolt or have someone inside just bump the starter see if the oil pump shaft turns. If it does not, then maybe it pulled up and out of the oil pump. Usually when that happens they fall down in the oil pan though which you are saying didn't happen. Since you still see it, hopefully you could take a magnet and move it around and re-seat it if that is the cause.

[mudgepondexpress]

I can't tell but you might have pulled the shaft out of the pump. Not all is lost, but if that is the case, I hope you are steady!

Fist though, can you turn the pump with a 1/4 inch socket? It turns counterclockwise and should have a thick syrupy resistance, but it should turn all the way around. It should turn smooth with no metallic sounds. If this is the case, then all you need to do is turn the pump shaft in little increments until the shaft lines up and the distributor drops in. It can take quite a few tries, but if you keep trying it will work. Don't turn it a ton, just 1/16 to 1/8 revolution turns.

If the pump shaft dropped... it will take an extendable magnet to lift the shaft enough to drop it back into the pump drive. I have done this a couple of times in life and both times it took at least a 1/2 hour to get it right. It should never happen if the retainer clip is installed on the shaft correctly, but I have seen them installed upside down and not installed at all. lift the shaft slow and smooth. Use lots of light and try to guide it back into the pump. if the hex doesn't line up it could fall again and you start over. if this is the case, you get 1 chance to install the distributor correctly or you risk pulling the pump shaft out again. I know from experience, you can pull the shaft up from way down in the pan, but it takes time and patience. I used magnets, but one of those claw extractors could work really well.

Good luck, if you were in Spokane I would drop by and try to help.

Kenny

[gmatt]

The distributor turns the oil pump shaft. Turning the engine without a distributor won't make the shaft turn.

[85stanggt]

Had the same issue. You need to get the pump shaft centered and it'll drop right down. My issue was even when I pushed it to one side or centered it, it always flopped to the right. I found dripping some oil in there and then pushing it against the other side helped it stay in place better due to the adhesion of the oil. Make sure the rotor is pointing in the right spot so that the distributor can slip down onto the square shaft and wiggle the rotor a little to get the gear to mesh and it should slip down.

[mudgepondexpress]

No but it makes the cam turn that could like up the cam teeth and the pump hex in the right orientation. I hate seeing it done that way but it can work. I always install them on the 10 degree mark and have since I was 14 years old (when my Dad handed me a distributor and told me to try and install it. Once I couldn't, he came over and showed me how. Then he pulled it back out and had me try again, then the car started, then he pulled it again and made me line it all up at the timing mark and reinstall. A great lesson I have never forgot).

[erratic50]

Did you try cussing at it?

Or go to the gentleman’s club for motivation on properly aligning a shaft? (Did I type that out loud. )


For those of you who haven’t spit your drink on yourself and others ....

If you fish the shaft out, a little assembly lube or grease will go a long ways.

Or a new shaft

Or a firm squeeze with a Pilar on four sides then shove it back in

[erratic50]

Ok..... so for the record......

crankshaft turns cam via timing chain. 2 rotations of the crank for every one of the cam

camshaft turns distributor via gears. Gearing is 1:1 — one rotation of the distributor (dizzy) for one of the cam. Oil pump runs with shaft off the bottom of the dizzy

oil pump and dizzy turn thecsame RPM as the cam — and 50% less RPM than the crank.

[WilliamCapri]

I had this problem as well. I could get the shaft to stand straight in the bore but by the time I put the distributor on, the shaft would lean over. I finally did it with a dab of grease to hold it to the opposite side. Oil might work as well as 85Stang says.

[ashley roachclip]

Insert the distributor where you need it , hold your hand on the rotor lightly , and bump the starter .
It will fall into place

[Magnetic82]

Great ideas and thanks. I think patience may be in order as suggested. The oil shaft isn't really loose although it moves slightly and therefore doesn't stay centered. I can get the 1/4 inch socket on it and move it with decent pressure. It does not pull up and out and I'm not going to try that. I think after looking at the new diz that maybe the recess in the bottom of the shaft is tight and the oil shaft even if it lines up is difficult to make it seat. Although the old one not going back in is mysterious. Shall try again this eve.

[Magnetic82]

Well after about 45 minutes or so I can say this. The oil shaft is quite loose and out of whatever socket it should be in. I have a telescoping magnet that easily grabs it. Trouble is I'm not sure I want to extract it and chance dropping it back into never never land. Rather not yank the engine. If I can dig up a pair of thin long needle nose pliers, I can probably get it out.
And then what?
Can I somehow as suggested secure it to the diz and reinstall both at the same time and have no problems? I checked the old and new diz and the measurements are correct. The new diz doesn't line up because the shaft is too high and off centered.
Seems risky but I'm willing to try it. How will the oil shaft not come out once reinstalled? Guess there is no room for it once everything is back together.
Thanks for the help everyone.

[ukravit]

Not sure if this helps, but my engine is out of an 88 Lincoln. 5.0 HO. The recess in my distributor where the oil pump drive shaft goes is deeper than a regular 5.0.
I have a couple distributors, both Ford not made out of Chinamite, and the regular mustang one sits up about as far as yours does when I tried to install it because the recess wasn't deep enough and it would bottom out on the oil pump drive shaft. Your new one in the pic could have a similar issue.

[mudgepondexpress]

OK, your pump shaft is out and sitting on top of the pump, at least it is reachable!!! You will need to get the shaft back into the pump then install the distributor. Pull the shaft all the way out (if you can, and it sounds like you can) so you can see what you are working with. You might get a strong magnet and place it on the deep socket / extension when you reinstall. Once installed remove the magnet and then remove the socket. Test the holding power of the shaft/socket/extension/magnet out of the car first. Getting it back in place isn't really that hard once you can see everything.

Here is an "if". If the pump shaft will not come out, the retaining collar is misadjusted. At this point is it going to be a lot of poke and pray, use the extension, socket and magnet to control the shaft. pull it up some, move it one way and set it down, rotate the shaft to see if it is engaged. Try again if it doesn't work. Yeah, lots of fun but you can do it with patience. Use a good quality black take on the socket/extension joint so they stay together. You will know when it goes into place, it will just settle in and be firm.

Kenny

[mudgepondexpress]

Oh, should add this, the shaft will not come out of the pump once the distributor is in place. There is not enough play in the length for that to happen.

The will help on reinstall... make sure the shaft and distributor internal hex are very clean and dry. Yeah, I know this is against normal wisdom, but in your case it is a must. If you have to pull the distributor 2 or three times before you get it right, it will allow the shaft to drop out of the distributor before it disengages the pump. You can also use some heavy grease on the pump side of the shaft to act like a glue.

Kenny

[Magnetic82]

Sounds great. That's my plan. Should be alright. Oil shaft is definitely loose but reachable. I'll give it a shot and maybe drive the thing this weekend.

[ThunderStruck]

Try using grease to hold shaft in center.

[Magnetic82]

I used the little telescoping magnet and after about fifteen minutes the shaft went back in. Then finally got around to getting the diz back in. I relocated the TFI module- that's why the diz came out but I still wanted new hardware. Too much running hot. Shall take care of that soon. Computer says check out the Thermactor system. Code 44. Turned the key and the thing started right up. Searched for idle and found it but poor throttle response and some odd noise from near the divertor valve and the new one way valve. So shut it off but looks promising.
Thanks for the advice and good vibes. Was nice to hear it run today.

[Magnetic82]

I used the little telescoping magnet and after about fifteen minutes the shaft went back in. Then finally got around to getting the diz back in. I relocated the TFI module- that's why the diz came out but I still wanted new hardware. Too much running hot. Shall take care of that soon. Computer says check out the Thermactor system. Code 44. Turned the key and the thing started right up. Searched for idle and found it but poor throttle response and some odd noise from near the divertor valve and the new one way valve. So shut it off but looks promising.
Thanks for the advice and good vibes. Was nice to hear it run today.

[emerygt350]

What did the odd noise sound like? I am getting a 44 koer code too, after installing a new distributor.

[Magnetic82]

The noise sounded like I removed the hose from the diverter valve and I could really hear the smog pump. No noise from the diz. It was back by the diverter. I'm thinking carbon buildup in the smog crossover tube and possibly heads. Ugh.

[emerygt350]

I heard something from that passenger side area too, a weird whistling mechanical sound. I think I need to chase this down as I have a strange miss now at idle and up to 1500k. I suspect a vacuum leak. I was trying to tighten header bolts and I bet I loosened a vacuum line over there.

[emerygt350]

Nope, distributor was seizing up and I ate the distributor gear on the highway today. Not happy at all. Cardone can go f themselves.