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  1. #1

    Default No real sub in a vert without losing all your trunk space?....Think again.

    Slides right out to get to the spare. Now all I have to do is chase the rattles out of the trunk lid.

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  2. #2

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    Nice job. How does it sound?

    cheapest option I’ve identified is the factory sub found under the back seat in the F150 in 2008.

  3. #3

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    As far subs go pretty good. 2db bump a 70 Hz with a nice roll off down to the f3 of 40. 20 l box. Port velocity is a tick high but I wasn't worried about chuffing because its in the trunk. Pretty effective bass support.

  4. #4
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
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    Looks nice! Curious what your wiring scheme is there....why a left & right speaker input?
    Jason Smith
    MCA #65481

    '82 GT Med. Red - 14k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '85 GT Black - 16k Mile Orig. Survivor (Foxtoberfest 2016 Best Original 79-86)
    '88 #400 Saleen Coupe "Mean Machine" Legal Guardian
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    '93 LX Yellow/Black Summer Feature - 2,700 Mile Original Survivor
    '05 S-281 Mineral Grey - 16k miles @ counting.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by sowaxeman View Post
    Looks nice! Curious what your wiring scheme is there....why a left & right speaker input?
    Dual voice coil sub. Added both voice coil inputs to the box so I could change the wiring scheme without lifting the woofer. Right now I am running both 4 Ohm coils in parallel (2 Ohm) with 300 watts. Each coil is 4 Ohm so you can run many different configurations. IE Par = 2 OHM. Ser= 8 Ohm, single = 4 Ohm.

    It is important to remember that although going lower in Ohms on the driver wiring configuration the amplifier power is increased, so is the distortion. The amplifier's damping factor is also decreased reducing the amps ability to control cone movement (read muddy). This means that once the sub is installed some trial and error tuning is a good idea.

    https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-ls10-44-10-low-profile-subwoofer-dual-4-ohm--295-251


    Last edited by 86FOX4EYE; 06-06-2018 at 06:21 AM.

  6. #6

    Default

    Did you happen to draw up plans for that box? I'd love to reclaim the trunk a bit in mine. Currently running a CompR 12 that takes a majority of the trunk...
    Daily Driver:
    1986 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0/5spd (T5Z, VM-1, "Lightweight" tailpipes)
    Winter Car:
    1986 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0/5spd (T5Z, VM-1, "Lightweight" tailpipes)
    Show Car:
    1986 Mustang GT Convertible 5.0/5spd (T5Z, VM-1, "Lightweight" tailpipes)

    Either I use one car for everything, or I have 3 identical twins?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by GliDeThuNDeR View Post
    Did you happen to draw up plans for that box? I'd love to reclaim the trunk a bit in mine. Currently running a CompR 12 that takes a majority of the trunk...
    I did. Complete models. CAD, drawing and WinISD. I will try to get something up this weekend.

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  8. #8
    FEP Senior Member qikgts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 86FOX4EYE View Post
    As far subs go pretty good. 2db bump a 70 Hz with a nice roll off down to the f3 of 40. 20 l box. Port velocity is a tick high but I wasn't worried about chuffing because its in the trunk. Pretty effective bass support.
    Nice job! Good looking box! No doubt you've got a good handle on this install!

    Any need for a subsonic filter around the F3? Just asking because you didn't mention it, but you did say the port velo would be high... I didn't look at any graphs to see if one was needed, but (obviously) if that cone is moving past xmax when playing down real low you'd be not likely to hear it getting torn up until it's too late. I'd hate to see that spider rip apart considering you've built that box specifically for that driver.
    '85 GT

    The other one... 2016 F-150 XLT Supercab Ecoboosted with 3.73's...

  9. #9

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by qikgts View Post
    Nice job! Good looking box! No doubt you've got a good handle on this install!

    Any need for a subsonic filter around the F3? Just asking because you didn't mention it, but you did say the port velo would be high... I didn't look at any graphs to see if one was needed, but (obviously) if that cone is moving past xmax when playing down real low you'd be not likely to hear it getting torn up until it's too late. I'd hate to see that spider rip apart considering you've built that box specifically for that driver.
    The TFM is pretty good. I like the curve with the bump. I need to get more efficient front speakers to keep up. I am working on 3D printed support panels for the front doors so I don't have to cut a big hole in the door. My 2 primary considerations are the Focal ES 165 K or the Focal es 130 k (for the most part because of the efficiency). It will be the one I can fit without looking too obtrusive. Sonics wise I would prefer the the 165.




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    ll


    As can be seen from the excursion curve there is no need for a SSF. I can bottom the voice coil don't get me wrong, I am running a not large but strong JL amp. But the real problem is that at about 80% the trunk lid tries to jump off the car. I will try a series wiring scheme tomorrow (8 ohm) and see if the increase in damping will give me a little more control over the cone without a too large sacrifice in SPL. This is with a 300 w input signal. The speaker is not quite as robust as the curve would suggest... but its close.

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    Like I said the PV is a bit high. I cant hear it when it is wide open.

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    There is another version of the box that I modeled that is sealed. The roll off is a bit higher (60 Hz) and the SPL was down a bit but I went ported because I figured if it was too boomy I cold could always turn it down. If it is weak (as the sealed curve would suggest) I would have to get a bigger amp. The real up side to the sealed box is that is 6 liters smaller. If you are not concerned with SPL the cabin gain in the trunk would give you all you could handle.....and it would completely disappear under the the top boot in the trunk...
    Last edited by 86FOX4EYE; 06-08-2018 at 11:52 PM.

  10. #10
    FEP Senior Member qikgts's Avatar
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    I'm interested to see what you come up with for the doors!
    '85 GT

    The other one... 2016 F-150 XLT Supercab Ecoboosted with 3.73's...

  11. #11

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    A sealed design would be quite interesting. Enclosure size requirements are considerably smaller sealed. Usually a 1.5 ported is 1 sealed.

  12. #12

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    Here is a comparison of sealed Vs ported. As can be seen, with this particular driver, you are compromising a lot more than box space with the change to sealed. Granted, this does not take into account for gain from the trunk. I will only be able to measure this with a mic. Something I have not gotten too yet.

    TFM

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    You can see why I chosen to take the ported rout. I can always turn the volume down.

    CE

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    Last edited by 86FOX4EYE; 06-09-2018 at 12:33 AM.

  13. #13
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
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    Very impressive!
    Jason Smith
    MCA #65481

    '82 GT Med. Red - 14k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '85 GT Black - 16k Mile Orig. Survivor (Foxtoberfest 2016 Best Original 79-86)
    '88 #400 Saleen Coupe "Mean Machine" Legal Guardian
    '92 LX 5.0 Calypso - 10k Mile Orig. Survivor (Sold @ Foxtoberfest...2017 Best Original 87-93)
    '93 LX Yellow/Black Summer Feature - 2,700 Mile Original Survivor
    '05 S-281 Mineral Grey - 16k miles @ counting.

  14. #14

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    Been thinking about doing something similar with an old school comp10 or a solobaric in an 86 ragtop.... That Dayton driver is very shallow which is helpful for this application. It should sound good.

    Ive always been a big power is an undersized sealed box type. My enclosure in my hatchback is 1.68 cuft rear firing against the rear seat and I run a vintage kicker comp 12. I was running a modded amp pushing 1000, recently went to a vintage dx350. It will just about blow you out of the car turned up. It does well down low too. I usually play with crossover slopes until I get a pretty level sounding response...

    is an interesting build you made.
    -- James

    "Trigger" - 86 Mustang GT - Black with red interior. 5.0 T5 built as Z. Original motor ~1/2 million miles. 18 yr daily, 7 a toy
    "Silver" - 85 Mustang Saleen 1985-0006? (Lol) Rare 1E silver / charcoal interior. Mystery. Current project roller, tons of Saleen pedigree

    Also in the stable - 1986 Mustang GT Convertible. Black/Black/Black conversion. 93 leather. VM1 ECU. T5Z

    past foxes -
    1989 Mustang LX Sport 5.0 AOD white/tan black top.
    Wife also had a 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe in the 90's.

    I'm a four eyed pride supporter, are you? Become one today!

  15. #15

    Cool Thiele parameters

    That's amazing. A box should be designed around the speaker's Thiele parameters. The Fs, Qts, Vas, etc.
    You can sometimes find speaker box software that you enter in these parameters and then you put the dimensions of space you have and it can tell you how to correctly build the correct size box for either a ported or sealed enclosure. It can tell you the circumference of the port and how long it should be. I had these guys build a box for my 10's before and I was absolutely amazed at how loud and deep the bass hit. When you buy a new speaker, sometimes there's paperwork that has these parameters, or you will have to look up the manufacture's web site and see what they say.

    For example, look at this JL Audio speaker:
    http://www.jlaudio.com/12w7-3-car-au...-drivers-92112

    Click the "Specifications" tab and then click "Parameters" and you can see all that data on the speaker. You can build the perfect speaker enclosure once you have all of these numbers.

    It's best to get all of this before buying the speaker. Sometimes you may not have enough proper air space in your trunk. Check it first before buying the subwoofer.

  16. #16

    Default

    That's pretty sweet. In my notch I have two 12" shallow mounts in their own separate sealed boxes. Takes up around the same amount of space. BUT My amp, small deep cycle AGM battery, and capacitor attached to the boxes takes up extra room. Still leaves me with enough trunk space for what I need. I just can't easily slide mine out for a spare. I don't have a spare so I guess that doesn't hurt me. A downside of having aftermarket wheels and tires that are different sizes front to rear. Mine also doesn't look anywhere near as neat, cool, and isn't as well thought out as this setup.

  17. #17

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    With the amount of cancellation you encounter with multiple drivers, generally you will reach 95% of the SPL with only one sub compared to what you get from the same amp running two and it will take up 1/2 the space.

    The Kicker DX350 and comp 12 in my 86 are capable of basically blowing someone right back out of the car. It near 130 on a tuned mic before I upgraded the amp. Now that the amp is upgraded its even more but more musical which is what I celebrate. I’m a sealed enclosure guy.....

    that being said I don’t want to even know how many hours I spend modeling things out in my car before I before I built anything for it.

    My first single kicker design that got stolen back in the early 2000’s used a non parallel side enclosure based design. Definitely not the easy way to build a “box” but it was amazing how much of a reduction I saw in standing waves.

  18. #18

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    Duplicate

  19. #19

    Default

    Yea, some drivers perform extremely well ported and do terrible sealed and vice versa. The driver makes all the difference.

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    With the amount of cancellation you encounter with multiple drivers, generally you will reach 95% of the SPL with only one sub compared to what you get from the same amp running two and it will take up 1/2 the space.
    I don't understand what you mean by "cancellation".

    The only reason I chose ported for this application is because one, it is a convertible (no cabin gain with the top down other than the trunk) and two, I didn't want to sacrifice the back seat to put the woofer in the interior. I need all the spl I can get out of this particular driver. Even ported the bass is marginal over about 50-60 mph with the top down. If I had the choice of using multiple drivers (or bigger) I would have. I still might. I am not done playing yet.
    Last edited by 86FOX4EYE; 07-24-2018 at 06:05 AM.

  21. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by qikgts View Post
    I'm interested to see what you come up with for the doors!
    So I have made a bit of progress on the doors and the dash.

    The speakers I have now, 3 1/2" in the dash and the 6" in the rear interior quarters just wont cut it. The 3 1/2's are too small to get good imaging or dynamics up front for me and with the top down matters just get worse.

    The system needs as much cone area and efficiency as can be installed up front. To make matters worse there are no cut-outs in front door bottoms. I don't want to put expensive drivers in the kick panels. They are called "kick" panels for a reason and I also have a clutch pedal to deal with.

    After some pretty tedious measurements the biggest hole I can cleanly cut in the bottom front of the door is 5". This will clear all of the window hardware and fasteners and not hurt the door panel integrity too much. Especially if I reinforce the door panel a bit. Unfortunately I cannot fit a big enough driver into a 5" hole to get the job done......or can I?

    I want to install a 6 1/2 driver in the front bottom of the door. A real 6 1/2" driver is actually around 7" with the grill. To get what I needed up front I chose a Focal ES 165k component set. I just chose these because I have never used them and I have heard good things about them plus my buddy who lives in the UK could get them for me for about 1/2 price.

    On to the good stuff.....

    I modeled door panel plates based on the measurements I took on the door. I modeled them to kind of match the look of what Ford did with the door panel hardware. I didn't want them to look too out of place. I matched the the angle of the door pull and I angled the driver back 10 degrees and up 10 degrees (as much as i could with out looking too obtrusive) to get them pointed a little more toward the passenger's and driver's heads.

    I aligned the driver magnet to the 5" hole center and used just enough offset the sink the driver magnet 2" into the door. I have 2 3/8" to work with.

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    I will attach the plate to the door with 10-24 nutcerts. This will help reinforce the door panel as well. At least that is the plan.

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    Once the modeling was completed I 3D printed the plates.

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    See next post

  22. #22

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    Here are a few more images. I also printed adapters to mount the tweeters in the factory dash locations.

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    Now on to the install. I will obviously have to sand, texture and paint the plates. Haven't thought that through quite yet. I will keep you posted.

  23. #23
    FEP Senior Member qikgts's Avatar
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    Nice work! Outstanding use of 3d printing right there!

    Any need to worry about UV or heat exposure with the material you used?
    '85 GT

    The other one... 2016 F-150 XLT Supercab Ecoboosted with 3.73's...

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by qikgts View Post
    Nice work! Outstanding use of 3d printing right there!

    Any need to worry about UV or heat exposure with the material you used?
    No. Didn't really consider it. It is a standard automotive poly material I have been using for years.

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