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  1. #1

    Default 5.0 marine engine build opinions for my fox

    hi, i am looking for opinions for a budget build for my fox. i have a n.o.s 5.0 marine engine from 1995,we test ran it at work,then put it on the shelf in '95, it is a roller block but has a flat tappet cam in it. it has 2 bar marine gt40 heads on it, from what i can gather, these marine heads have around a 69-70cc chamber, should have a stock c/r of about 8.2-8.5, i have been told but not verified that these heads come factory with manley s.s. severe duty valves, and crane springs/retainers/locks. i have verified with a bore scope that it has forged mustang pistons in it. I would like some opinions on direction to go. I m thinking either put a good roller set up in with afr 165 heads, milled down to get me in the 10.5:1 or better c/r. or do i keep the marine heads,as they are new, and put a weiand 174 on top of this with a good custom roller. this is going to be a street car motor only,it will go into my 83 fox, with the stock hood scoop. which one would be the better street motor? which one should in theory make more power? and what one would you choose?

  2. #2

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    Was it a reverse rotation engine? It depends on how much horsepower you want, but I would probably put a roller cam and intake and keep the 2 bar heads. It'll make a decent street motor. You might have to change the valve springs. I have no idea what springs came on the marine engines.
    Matt
    1980 Mercury Zephyr 4 door sleeper. Was a 2.3 4cyl, now with a 302 HO, AOD, and 8.8" axle from a wrecked 89 Mustang. Edelbrock Performer 289 intake, Edelbrock 600 cfm carb, Mac o/r h pipe, Thrush turbo mufflers, 2004 Mustang bucket seats, Grant steering wheel, and 89 Mustang 5.0 front and rear sway bars.

    1988 Mustang GT hatch -- Explorer intake, GT40 heads with Trick Flow spring kit, Crane 1.7 rrs, 70mm MAF, 70mm throttle body, Kirban Kwik shifter w/ Pro 5.0 Deluxe handle, clutch quadrant and firewall adjuster, and 3.27s
    1986 Mercury Cougar 5.0 (sold), 1989 Lincoln Mark VII LSC 5.0 5 speed (sold)

  3. #3

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    [QUOTE=5.0 bird;1881779]Was it a reverse rotation engine? It depends on how much horsepower you want, but I would probably put a roller cam and intake and keep the 2 bar heads. It'll make a decent street motor. You might have to change the valve springs. I have no idea what springs came on the


    It's a standard rotation engine,but I would be changing the cam to a roller anyways. I really like the weiand 174 blower,but wonder if I would have better street manners with the h/c/I swap. I think the price is the same either way I go

  4. #4

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    Throw an h.o. cam at it with the blower as is.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haystack View Post
    Throw an h.o. cam at it with the blower as is.
    Thanks for the replies, I am leaning more towards the 174 blower running low boost (5-7psi) keeping the marine heads,probably some new springs and a custom ed curtis cam,good roller rockers,holley 750, maybe get me in the 450hp range ?

  6. #6
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    450 is pretty optimistic, but it will definitely make more power and torque than you will ever be able to hook up on the street. A roots blower is a very different feel than anything else- you get the torque peak at around 2k-2500 rpm, and hold it until almost red line. Max HP almost doesn't matter.
    Last edited by brianj; 05-29-2018 at 06:30 PM.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by brianj View Post
    450 is pretty optimistic, but it will definitely make more power and torque than you will ever be able to hook up on the street. A roots blower is a very different feel than anything else- you get the torque peak at around 2k-2500 rpm, and hold it until almost red line. Max HP almost doesn't matter.

    Yea I definately am building for torque,I appreciate the input. I think you are right on with not being able to get it down on the street anyways. Hp #'s really are irrelevant to me, I just want a good reliable platform,with good tire boiling power,and I think so far the roots is the way to go for me,plus having a blower hiding under the stock hood is a really nice bonus too!

  8. #8

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    Brianj,I just noticed some past threads on your blower install,I gotta say you did a fantastic job on your car. By chance my set up will be very similar to yours. How do you like the set up you have made? How has it been on reliabilty? do you think i can use the stock a/c? What gas mileage are you getting when you are not hammering it? are you happy with the route you went? And What would you have done differently? forgive so many questions but would be nice to know, as I am ready to pull the trigger and order a blower

  9. #9
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    The stock A/C I cannot be sure of, as I do not have AC. However, everything else worked, with the exception of the auto belt tensioner. Reliability has been bulletproof. I went with a larger Mishimoto radiator to ensure it stayed cool. I also went to electric fans, simply for the room and better access to the front of the motor. The only thing I would do differently - I would go with one of the Fitech power adder fuel injection setups. As a matter of fact, I am. I currently am running a mechanical fuel pump and a Holley 750 blower carb. It was relatively cheap, works well, and it's bulletproof. However, mileage suffers with a mechanical secondary carb with 50cc squirters, and the blower takes quite a while to reach operating temp. As a fun toy, who cares. However, i find myself taking it as a commuter to work less, and on less short trips to the store, etc., mostly because of the longer warm up time to get a good stable idle. The fitech is considerably more money- $1200 for the fitech, another probably $500-1000 for a correctly done fuel system, but I'm doing it anyhow. My suggestion - run the blower on your current carb, with the mechanical fuel pump. Boost reference the carb. (easy to do- Google it). Spend as litte as possible on the fuel side, realizing you will be giving up power. Get the car running on the blower well. It takes a bit to figure out how to get your timing set up correctly, get the accessory belts to run true, etc. Once you have everything running right, go with a Fitech. Don't do like me and spend $600 on a boost referenced holley, because if mileage and cold starts are important to you, you will be posting a for sale ad for a used blower carb soon enough.

    EDIT- Just saw a part of your original question - blower or normally aspirated. A normally aspirated motor is definitely easier, more forgiving of mistakes, and will also probably live longer with abuse. Although the blower was not particularly difficult to install, it required far more fiddling with timing curves in the distributor, belt alignment and tensioner issues, fabrication to keep the air cleaner under the hood, etc. That being said, I will probably never build an unboosted toy again. It is an unbelievable difference, and well worth it.
    Last edited by brianj; 05-30-2018 at 03:27 PM.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by brianj View Post
    The stock A/C I cannot be sure of, as I do not have AC. However, everything else worked, with the exception of the auto belt tensioner. Reliability has been bulletproof. I went with a larger Mishimoto radiator to ensure it stayed cool. I also went to electric fans, simply for the room and better access to the front of the motor. The only thing I would do differently - I would go with one of the Fitech power adder fuel injection setups. As a matter of fact, I am. I currently am running a mechanical fuel pump and a Holley 750 blower carb. It was relatively cheap, works well, and it's bulletproof. However, mileage suffers with a mechanical secondary carb with 50cc squirters, and the blower takes quite a while to reach operating temp. As a fun toy, who cares. However, i find myself taking it as a commuter to work less, and on less short trips to the store, etc., mostly because of the longer warm up time to get a good stable idle. The fitech is considerably more money- $1200 for the fitech, another probably $500-1000 for a correctly done fuel system, but I'm doing it anyhow. My suggestion - run the blower on your current carb, with the mechanical fuel pump. Boost reference the carb. (easy to do- Google it). Spend as litte as possible on the fuel side, realizing you will be giving up power. Get the car running on the blower well. It takes a bit to figure out how to get your timing set up correctly, get the accessory belts to run true, etc. Once you have everything running right, go with a Fitech. Don't do like me and spend $600 on a boost referenced holley, because if mileage and cold starts are important to you, you will be posting a for sale ad for a used blower carb soon enough.

    EDIT- Just saw a part of your original question - blower or normally aspirated. A normally aspirated motor is definitely easier, more forgiving of mistakes, and will also probably live longer with abuse. Although the blower was not particularly difficult to install, it required far more fiddling with timing curves in the distributor, belt alignment and tensioner issues, fabrication to keep the air cleaner under the hood, etc. That being said, I will probably never build an unboosted toy again. It is an unbelievable difference, and well worth it.

    Thanks brian,those are the real world answers I was looking for. You are right,I should just bite the bullet now and go with f.i.

  11. #11
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    Even going with a normally aspirated setup, I would still go FI. A carb is good, reliable and capable of the same mileage and power as fuel injection. However, the new stand alone fi set ups have an amazing degree of flexibility that you can't beat. I can take a 800HP power adder Fitech, run it on my roots blown 302 today, take it off, and run it on a normally aspirated 460 tomorrow. The week after I could put it on a turbo blow through set up. Since I change directions on my builds every few years, it will save me money in the long term, and headaches now. You never know- while a 174 blower on a 302 sounds great to you now, 5 years from now you might want a 408W stroker. Or swap to drag boat turbos. Hell, I'd love to do a turbo 5.3LS Fiero. You can do anything to one of these setups once you get over the initial price hit.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by brianj View Post
    Even going with a normally aspirated setup, I would still go FI. A carb is good, reliable and capable of the same mileage and power as fuel injection. However, the new stand alone fi set ups have an amazing degree of flexibility that you can't beat. I can take a 800HP power adder Fitech, run it on my roots blown 302 today, take it off, and run it on a normally aspirated 460 tomorrow. The week after I could put it on a turbo blow through set up. Since I change directions on my builds every few years, it will save me money in the long term, and headaches now. You never know- while a 174 blower on a 302 sounds great to you now, 5 years from now you might want a 408W stroker. Or swap to drag boat turbos. Hell, I'd love to do a turbo 5.3LS Fiero. You can do anything to one of these setups once you get over the initial price hit.

    I almost wonder if the efi is cheaper in the long run,by the time I buy a carb, and the 40 trips to the speed shop for jets and squirters etc to get it right. I think the price difference is neglegable. Am going to go with the fitech,that comes with the nice canister style fuel pump. I have $0 into this long block, so all my money wI'll be wrapped up into the blower and fitech. I still have the great running stock engine in the car. My plan is to build this one as a plug and play,so when I am ready i just make the swap. Brian, how much boost are you running,and at what psi did your belt start slipping? I have also read a bit on doing a cog type belt conversion on this,seems simple enough

  13. #13
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    7 psi or so is what I'm running. Belt slip seemed to be more of a rpm issue - it would start at around 5000 rpm. The cog conversion looks interesting, but if the car backfires, you will bend the rotors in the blower if they are locked in place with a cogged belt. Honestly, just increase the belt wrap on the blower pulley and that problem goes away.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

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