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Thread: BM Capri

  1. #1
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    Default BM Capri

    Regardless of my current low post status I have been a member of this forum for many years now. I am puzzled by other members posts stating how they would love to have a BM Capri. However, I have noticed that when these extremely rare cars become available all of a sudden no one is interested. Not just talking about my 82 either. Why is this the case?

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    FEP Power Member Bryan Knebworth's Avatar
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    F.E.P. is a great site, but regrettably not a very good place to sell a car. If you have some nickel-and-dime stuff for sale, great, but anything over $300 is very difficult to sell here (difficult, not impossible!) I remember two cases in particular where a user tried to sell their car here, for nearly two years, and not one bite. Go to Hemmings Motor News and write a really nice ad. I've sold over half-a-dozen cars there.

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    So, then I should part out the car and junk the body if I want any results through this forum! Kind of counter-productive (hypocritical) in my opinion as well as destroying a rare and nice project car. I thought we were trying to save these cars?

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    No offense, but the car doesn't show very well in the pictures you have posted. Most of them show the car with various parts and other junk laying on it and maybe moss growing on the rear spoiler. The engine is in various states of disassembly and one would assume not running and the car looks like it hasn't moved in years.

    I'm not saying you need to get the engine running and clay bar the paint, but I think if you cleaned it up and took some better overall pictures you might get a better response. Also remember that some guy in New York might think that thing is awesome, but you are clear across the country and he might not even bother trying to get a hold of you. So you are looking for someone that is wanting to tackle a major restoration project of a non-running car and hoping they are either local or willing to pay $$$ to have it shipped. There aren't a lot of those people out there.

    You mention health problems in one of your posts so maybe you aren't able to do any of the above and that is fine, but it will be harder to get what you want and in the timeframe that you would probably like to sell it in.

    Not trying to be mean or even mean spirited, just giving you my opinion and feedback.
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    FEP Supporter 4-barrel Mike's Avatar
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    What KevinVarnes said.

    I was interested when you first posted but, after looking at the "detailed pictures", I probably wouldn't drive across town to look at it for $2000.

    Sorry, but it looks to be a complete mess.

    Mike
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    Yes the car is dirty and is a project as clearly stated. However, it is not nearly in the poor shape that some of you have claimed, without even bothering to look at it I must say. No moss growing on the rear deck, engine needs minor work to be perfect ($4000 shortblock by the way). Body is straight with no rust issues.T tops don't leak. Most of the parts sitting on the roof are extra pieces that I thought it would be nice to show them too. The new old stock center cloth (now unobtainable) retailed for $600.00 on its own. I could go on and on with the list of things that have been done. Yes, I haven't repainted it back to black or put a new graphics kit on it. Nor have I had the seats recovered or finished the cylinder head work, however, at $2000.00 it is a bargain especially when I compare this price to what I've seen offered here and those vehicles aren't even anything collectible! Enough about my car as this post wasn't specifically about mine to begin with. I just noticed an alarming general trend here and asked why? Didn't expect to receive insults and false judgements. That is just sad and ignorant behavior Mike!

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    Again, none of my comments were meant to offend, but give you an opinion based on your ad. Clearly I haven't looked at your car. I'm giving you the perspective of a potential buyer who is looking at the ad. Also, I never claimed anything about the condition of the car nor did Mike. Only how it shows in the ad.

    I don't know what that green looking stuff is where the spoiler meets the body, but it looks like moss. The rear seat has a random spark plug wire laying across it and some other assorted trash. Five to ten minutes with a shop vac and a trash bag and the interior would show a lot better. If you have extra parts or parts that are missing from the car in pictures then lay them out and show them separately. Piling them on the car makes the car look like it is being used as a storage shelf. Even cleaning up some of the trash on the ground around the car would help.

    I can't speak to the Black Magic market in general. I can tell you that 99.9% of the general public probably has no idea what a Black Magic or Crimson Cat Capri is. People on this board might think they are cool, but this is a small market.

    Good luck with the sale of your car. I hope you are able to find the right buyer for it.
    '89 XR-7 5 Speed
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    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Here's my .02 for what it's worth. Kevin, Mike, and Bryan have all made valid points. First and foremost, most if not the majority of members here on FEP have 4 Eyed cars and projects, that's the most common reason they are members here. So with that in mind, we as a whole are a great community that is interested in these vehicles, but as stated most of us already own 1 or multiple Foxes. So unfortunately although many of us are interested in additional Four Eyes (including yours) we may not be able to add them to our stables due to $$$, available storage space, or wife approval. Therefore that can limit the number of potential buyers at least here on FEP.

    In regards to your BM Capri, as I stated in your FS ad that is one of my all time favorite Foxes! I personally would LOVE to own your Black Magic. The first issue for me is the distance between us. I live in CO, but I am working down in TX right now so that makes the distance and ability to obtain the vehicle much more difficult. If you were closer by, I honestly would have taken the time to check the Capri out, even thought I don't need another project right now and really don't have the spare $$ to spend on another project car that will have to sit for an extended period of time until I can get to it.

    In regards to your personal ad, I as a potential buyer has several concerns that may or may not be that of others, but I will state them here in hopes that give you the perspective of a potential buyer and maybe they can help you sell the BM to someone that will return it to it's former glory.

    Kevin mentioned the green mold looking stuff on the rear spoiler here.

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    I will take you at your word that it's not mold and is probably droppings off a near by tree or bush, but it does look potentially troublesome to a buyer that is not there and can't verify in person.

    When you see the green on the rear spoiler and then you look at the picture of the front seat, that again gives you the concern of mold and possible rot in the vehicle.

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    I would assume the stains on the seat are due to the T-top leaking and causing the damage. Again this causes concern for those of us that only have pictures to go by when assessing a vehicle from thousands of miles away. The damage may be minimal and not as bad as the pictures look, but without more information or clarifications most will assume the worst.

    The picture of the warped driver side door panel only confirms to me the leaking T-top and possible mold/mildew/rot damage that can be very costly with a project such as this.

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    You state that there's a $4K long block in this picture and I will take you at your word, but any potential buyer is going to be concerned with the overall condition of the engine when they see an open intake and cooling systems such as this picture shows. How long has the engine been open to the elements, has water gotten down into the cylinders, is the cooling system damaged, is the block cracked due to lack of antifreeze and freezing? These are all questions that go thru my mind when I look at this picture. Are any or non of them True? I have no idea, but I have to factor them in when considering purchasing the car and the possible added costs to the project.

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    Again non of this is intended to be criticism of you or the car, they are simply my thoughts and concerns as a potential buyer of said vehicle. As someone that has built, restored, repaired, rebuilt, and owned many of the vehicles over the years I feel I have a pretty good idea of what is involved with these cars and the potential costs. The BM is a cool car, but as stated generally only True 4 Eyed enthusiasts are aware of them. The BM was a trim package for the Capri which makes it unique and rare, but not all that different from a RS, etc. The seat material is unique in color to the BM and that can make it difficult to restore properly. Your seats appear to be in pretty good shape except for the possible damage to the driver seat. If that seat cleans up and is usable as is, then that is a big cost savings for a project such as that. If the opposite is true, then the additional cost is a hit to it's current value. The car needs to be repainted and re-stripped to look original again. That alone can be a huge cost for the average owner. A quality repaint and stripe job will easily cost $5K in most cases unless the owner does the work themselves and can easily hit $10K if there is body or rust damage that has to be addressed. The engine apparently is not original or at least not stock original. To the hardcore restoration guy that is a knock on it's value. Someone like me, not as big a deal, but again the pictures don't give me the visual of a $4k engine and therefore past experience tells me I will need to spend $1k or more to rebuild, etc. I don't remember if you have the original gold TRX wheels, but that will add value to an Original type buyer. They are cool and unique and I would prefer to have them also, even though I probably wouldn't use them due to the high cost of the TRX tires.

    With all of this said, the BM doesn't appear to be worth the original asking price of $4k. The current price of $2K might be reasonable, but I would want to check the car over in person to verify the condition and my concerns that are mentioned above. I do wish I was closer to your location as I would love to see the car in person as I would love to own the car and be able to restore it back to its original glory. I hope someone here on FEP or at least a 4 Eyed enthusiast is able to purchase the Capri and do it justice as they are cool cars that are not seen very often anymore. Best of luck with the sale!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Awaiting Restoration
    1984 SVO Restoration in Progress
    1986 GT Wrecked by PO, but still want to save!

    Current Capris:
    1982 Capri Roller
    1984 Capri Returned to Bubble Back Glory
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
    1982 Capri RS 5.0 4spd T-tops

  9. #9

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    I would have to agree with the above. I have been looking for a BM for a long time. This is the first place I always check. But going by the pic's, the car appears to be a basket case in need of a total restoration. Even at $2000.00 it looks like just too much work. Better pictures and descriptions would go a long way to selling your car, good luck.

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    Seeing how No one wants to see the value here I'll go about this a different way. I'm going to remove the engine, transmission, and the center section out of the differential, and any other non-stock parts (not including suspension) and sell them locally or use them myself. Then I'll clean the car up take new photos and offer it here for $700.00 FIRM. The new and NOS upholstery will not be included, nor will the wheels with the new Cooper Cobra tires. I really am just trying to save it. However, I'm not going to give it away either. FYI- the car was running and drove last summer and was only stored since August. I hauled it to St John when I moved in December. The green on the drivers seat is heavy pollen from a douglas fir tree it was parked under. I had left the drivers window open for 2 days. The stuff on the decklid are seed pods from the maple trees it is parked near. Had a wind storm a couple of days ago. As far as the door cards here in North Eastern Washington state the extreme weather changes, both temp and humidity, is to blame for the warpage. I will straighten them out once again, but no guarantee they will be perfect but will be pretty close. Not going to do anything else without being compensated for it and my time is worth $150.00 an hour for labor + tax! Should take me about a week to get all the uncompensated work done that is being demanded! Hopefully, I'll survive it! Additionally, hope this is good enough for all if not then TFB!

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    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    I have to admit that I missed the NOS seat material and vinyl from your original ad. I might have seen it when I looked at it the first time, but forgot. Obviously that adds value to the deal that I didn't factor in and I will apologize for that.

    Any extra work such as removing the engine, trans, etc. that is entirely up to you. No one is demanding changes on your behalf. Honestly if the car is rust free, straight, and many of the items I mentioned before are not really issues, then IMHO the Capri is probably a good buy.

    I think the biggest issue is communication by both parties. The more information you provide as the seller the easier it is for potential buyers to determine if the vehicle is worth your asking price and worth the trouble to make a long distance purchase. Unfortunately without additional information the only think to go off of is photographs and that may have caused many of the misunderstandings not only by myself, but others. GLWS
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Awaiting Restoration
    1984 SVO Restoration in Progress
    1986 GT Wrecked by PO, but still want to save!

    Current Capris:
    1982 Capri Roller
    1984 Capri Returned to Bubble Back Glory
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
    1982 Capri RS 5.0 4spd T-tops

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    [QUOTE=wraithracing;1880219]I have to admit that I missed the NOS seat material and vinyl from your original ad. I might have seen it when I looked at it the first time, but forgot. Obviously that adds value to the deal that I didn't factor in and I will apologize for that.



    I think the biggest issue is communication by both parties.

    Then maybe people should have asked questions first before jumping to insult both me and the car. This is deplorable behavior that has been typical of this forum for the last 5 years or so and is why I let my original account go. FYI, the upholstery is available for $350.00 + shipping, all of the MSD ignition was sold yesterday for $500.00. All other parts are still available. The foolish thing about everyone elses behavior is that anyone could have bought the car at $2000.00 and sold the non-stock parts for $4000.00, easily, and then the car would have been free, even considering shipping across the country. So, in effect I was offering to give away money to ensure the BM Capri got a new home with someone who could do it justice and maybe a little cash boost to get it started on the road to restoration and leaving me just enough cash to take care of some of my needs. Sadly, now this will not happen and whoever ends up with it will have to pay to play!

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    I have read all the post from "both" postings and nobody was insulting you or the car, I think you are being overly sensitive, people have been civil and simply just expressing their thoughts, ie condition, location ect.., humans are visual people as I'm sure you know, there is no reason for insulting the reply posters or the forum, this is a great place full of people who are willing to help, my opinion get thicker skin and take people's advise in consideration, all they suggested was clean up the car a little bit, not over react and say your parting out the car now, and since you went off the deep end, please let me know what exactly makes that engine worth 4k also you stated it doesn't even have the stock Capri rear-end you have swapped in a T-Coupe rear, I could go on and on

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    Last edited by eddo617; 05-15-2018 at 10:13 PM.

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    Eddo,obviously, you didn't read or understand my first post in this thread either. It was not supposed to be about my car to begin with. Others decided to use it to criticize both the car and myself. That just proved my original point beyond a shadow of a doubt! Your opinions and suppositions are incorrect and will be promptly ignored!

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    Obviously I read your first post, and Bryan explained it well in his reply to your first post, but it's obvious that you didn't like what he had to say and took it sensitively, and all the following up post were just helpful suggestion, you don't seem to understand that, simple constructive criticism

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  16. #16

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    Wow! What a pissing match! If I were closer I'd but the thing my self just so you all would shut up lol I'm just kidding or course..
    BUT
    The sad truth about these cars is what others have said, or tried to say. Not that many people know what they are. Even a Capri in good complete running condition would barely bring $4000. And thats a shame.
    So many people look at one of my cars and tell me "thats a nice looking mustang". When really its a Capri. A 18 year old kid came by and looked at it and wanted to know what it was. He had never seen one before. Yes I can call 18 year olds kids.. I have reached that age. Watch out or I will smack you with my cane! Really much of the younger generation knows nothing of these cars, and they dont want to.
    Trey said it best. A paint job could cost at a minimum of $5000. Upwards of $10,000 easy for a full on resto quality one striped and done right. Which easily outpaces the cars value. Never mind the mechanical issues, weatherstrip, and interior. Trust me.. no one dislikes that fact more than myself. But its true. The car is not worth what it would cost to get painted. Anybody's car. My car is not worth that. Trey's car is not worth that. I'll go way out on a limb here and say that even foxchasis's car is not worth it!!! Haha.
    And thats no disrespect to anybody. At times I would agree with you that people here can be a little , eh. But this time I think everyone has been respectful and tried to be honest here. Its the sad state that lots of us here face. These cars just do not have the value. Super rare. Sure. And if it were complete, running, and original it would be worth money. But its not.
    Lets take my Black Magic. Still sitting out there with the side smashed in. My friend who has his own shop and does great work talked to me about it. Replace door. Repair quarter. Paint. $6500. MY PRICE as his friend. Even painted it wouldnt be worth it.. and I know it. Cause it still needs interior, and some mechanical work. You could spend 10 grand on a car that will be worth 5 when you are done. Sad but true.
    So you cant get upset at people when you have a car thats been sitting, is not running, with questionable parts and a trashed interior. We're not even sure its a real BM, as you stated the radiator support had been replaced and the buck tag is missing.. So the only way to know for sure is a Marti report, which is of course, more money!
    And again, thats no disrespect to anybody. I love the BM Capri as much as anybody. But taking one from rotting in your back yard to a fine cherry is a long expensive road.
    Just for example I just bought a 1985 mustang GT 5.0 5 speed T top. Complete original car. Been sitting. Moss on the interior! $1200 I've already spent more than that on it and its not even at my house yet!! And by the way a moss covered interior is very nice and plush! Luxurious even!

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    Last edited by eddo617; 05-21-2018 at 05:57 PM.

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