It's Official: Ford's Killing ALL of Their Cars--Except Mustang

[ZephyrEFI]

I don't want a Fiat. I want a Ford.

I never claimed to be a genius savior of Ford. But the idea to sell competitive product Ford already has in its stable in its home country was good enough for the previous CEO.

There are many reasons why cars don't sell. The whole Merkur thing was a stupid idea and they botched the marketing of that bigtime. I'll even do you one better and bring up one that you haven't. The Contour/Mystique. Those didn't sell well because they marketed them head to head against cars like the Accord, where they had many practical shortcomings, like rear seat space. What they SHOULD have done is marketed them as an admittedly smaller, premium, sporty V6 alternative to the everyday boring sedan. They had the Taurus if you really wanted a boring sedan. But instead they built most of them with 4 cylinders and automatics and apples to apples with the competition they decided they would compete with, they weren't as good. And, oh what an automatic that was. Total junk. That's not a reason to abandon a strategy, but that's what they did. Ford does a complete 180 every couple of years, it seems. Well, that didn't work (even if it DID), let's try something else. That wastes a ton of money when you start completely fresh every couple of years. Instead of dumping everything you've built, spend that money on making the products better as often as your competition does. They'd probably be able to afford to do that if they didn't roll out whole new strategies every 10 years or so.

And what about the Fusion? It's a European product. It's just like the Mondeo. The previous gen one, anyway... Despite the fact, they've announced they're discontinuing it (You'd think joeblow American wouldn't put a lot of confidence in a car the company intends to sh**can), but it still sells well enough that Ford's kept it around. They wouldn't do that if it wasn't beneficial to them.

This whole dumping sedans thing is just a non-car guy CEO wanting to do something to make a name for himself. It's just another in a long line of Ford marketing 180s, even if it is the most extreme.

[82gt50]

I do see where you're coming from as a former owner of Mercury cars (1969 Cyclone GT 4-speed and 1984 Capri RS 5.0 5-speed) I didn't agree with Ford dumping the Mercury division. But stepping back I realized Mercury had simply become a crutch for dealerships that couldn't survive on Lincoln sales alone. So Ford discontinued Mercury and folded the Lincoln franchises into Ford dealerships. Since Ford now offers very high option trim series for every model there was no need for Mercury to fill the middle ground between Ford and Lincoln.

For a plant to be profitable it should run 2 shifts roughly 440 vehicles per shift 880 a day, but what if you can't sell that many. The answer is to flex and run multiple vehicles on the same line and that worked well when several models shared the same platform (like the Fox) which isn't the case today, for example the Mustang is now a unique platform shared with nothing else. This is part of the reason for the Mustang being so expensive compared to the Fox years. The Fusion does sell well but Ford generally doesn't disclose how many of that number they had to dump into rental fleets like an overflow at a low margin. And like I stated earlier all of those cars will hit the used car market much earlier than normal at less than 1 year old and 10k miles with a very low price, so why buy a new one from Ford. That crashes the cars residual for leases as well.

Ford was created to be a car company for the masses and old Henry built cars that were simple, durable and economical. But what would happen if that kind of car was offered today? You can't, the government made sure of it with ever changing regulations. And such a car would be seen as crude and cheap by auto journalists and buyers. In short the market is very different from the Fox era Fords of the early 80s when the bulk of Fords cars were built off of one inexpensive platform.

When Ford made this announcement April 2018 they were looking at their year to date car sales down 14% and truck sales were up 3% SUVs down 3%. That's only part of the story to move those cars in a shrinking segment Ford and dealers had to offer deep discounts and take losses. Then they looked around at other manufacturers and saw their small cars and sedans were struggling as well. So how much do you want to invest into new product for a shrinking segment and wouldn't that investment be better made into the CUVs/SUVs that the market wants and are profitable. And bringing in cars that were never designed for the American market has never been profitable, and it wasn't because of marketing.

[82gt50]

Since you keep bringing up manual transmissions what do a Ford F-750 37,000lb GVWR truck, a Ferrari V12 812 GTS and the new GT500 Shelby Mustang have in common? They only come with automatic transmissions, welcome to 2020.

Thankfully manuals are available in normal Mustangs but it would be interesting to see the stats on their sales percentage vs the faster 10-speed automatic transmission.

That said I'd never put an automatic in my '82 GT and when I get around to building that Factory Five Cobra Daytona Coupe it'll have a manual. Certain vehicles demand a manual for the fun of it...but not a 4-door sedan. In the early 80's Honda came out with an automatic transmission for their CM400 motorcycle, nobody bought them. Riding just wasn't the same with an automatic, might as well get a scooter. I've had everything from Hondas to Triumphs to Harleys and loved shifting them all.

[ZephyrEFI]

Actually, reducing the number of architectures they build is one of Ford's top priorities right now. The Mustang will be moved to the new Explorer architecture in short order. And all the platforms they build CUVs on, they ALSO build cars on. That's what makes them crossovers. The plant that builds the Escape could easily build the Focus too if they wanted to. Not selling enough Escapes? Build some Foci! It would certainly be helpful to have small cars to offer for the next gas panic.

I didn't bring up manuals. I just said the automatic in the Contour/Mystique sucked. That's a fact, Jack.

By the way, this popped up yesterday, and I really enjoyed it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurari.../#52756f684d23

In your face, Jim Hackett! Despite your extreme measures, Mullaly is still the most outrageous CEO of recent memory. And their charts in this story don't look good for you either. According to chart III, you're the most full of crap of any other CEO in the past 20 years! What did Mullaly do again? Oh, that's right. One Ford. Brought us a quality line of cars, put their best foot forward in their home country. Mostly. Not counting the terrible auto in the Focus and Fiesta. Old habits die hard.

And then he left, and those products were all left to languish way too long, and sales unsurprisingly dropped.

[82gt50]

Mulally was a great CEO just what Ford needed at the critical time. Best thing he did was dumping all the dead weight foreign brands of PAG. He did make some mistakes mostly because of his Boeing roots he assumed the same cars would work around the world in every market, no Alan these aren't airliners the car market is different. Kind of like how Toyota designed and built the Tundra here in North America because it's the only market for that vehicle.

By far the worst Ford CEO in history was Jacques Nasser who started PAG and wasted billions of dollars buying and rebuilding junk foreign car companies just for their once prestigious brand names. He starved Ford Lincoln and Mercury of development resources to rebuild those foreign brands and never made a return on the investment. The PAG brands were all sold at a huge loss.

If Ford wanted Lincoln to really compete in the Luxury market they could build a performance sedan on a modified Mustang S550 or the Explorer's new U625 platform. That's assuming Ford ever understands that real luxury performance sedans need to be front engine rear wheel drive.

[xctasy]

CEO Comparison, well, its like a Paramedic saving a patient. In my opinion, you can't compare different CEO's over different time frames. Each did what was considered right. I really liked both Mulally and Nasser. Both gave us the T6 program of small SUV's, and despite the issues of what a ugly Ranger is, it sells its a$$ off.

Personally, only because he was substantially an Aussie guy, Jacques Nasser, because of where he was born, was eventually deep sixed by what happened in 911, and before it all, was threatening to and doing to do Dearborn what he did to every other department he'd been involved with since working with Jac Talenak in Australia. Make it fly financially, and remove the white faces in the decision halls. The guy poured everything into making divisions fly.

Australia was a dead dog in terms of the supply chain costs, the victim of the same kind of commodity price swings that killed the Australian shipping industry and utterly obliterated the Dutch in Asia. The Premier Automotive Group was full of cars which had huge cost reductions for Ford, but they needed to move towards the SUV market. The cost focus was a hatred of rear drive, and not understanding traction and internal size requirements of customers in the Police and Military. Exactly why the Fox Fairmont's were hated and some other growth SUV markets weren't taken to the fullest advances. The Explorer and big SUV's were prefect proof that Ford could shift volume, the IRS suspension and advancement of design under cost reduction programs were backed out of under Mulally.

The Nasser position was a lot like Roy Lund, he was a visionary...and guys like that become either secure trouble shooters, or Peter the Great's who risk that your gonna seriously upset the chain of command to get the slice of the pie.

Anyway, the decisions made are the decisions made.

The sedan is certainly dead. Get back to 1946, and move on with Chuck Wagons, people.....

[NAVYCAT]

I read that the ranger is getting a major refresh here for the 2021 year..... But there is also a new dodge Dakota coming out that looks very nice

[ZephyrEFI]

If Ford wanted Lincoln to really compete in the Luxury market they could build a performance sedan on a modified Mustang S550 or the Explorer's new U625 platform. That's assuming Ford ever understands that real luxury performance sedans need to be front engine rear wheel drive.

They were going to, but your guy Hackett and his puppet in charge of Lincoln killed it. Luckily, that platform is at the beginning of its lifespan, so I'm hopeful we may yet see something cool on it. But that won't happen as long as Hackett's in charge.

The Premium Auto Group had some pluses. We got the RWD Lincoln LS out of it. It was a good first try for a modern RWD sedan for Lincoln. If they'd given it another generation, it could have been great. Imagine today if there was a Lincoln version of the XE! But nope, it was time for another 180, so everything had to change. Lame-a$$ D3 was cheaper to build on.

[82gt50]

CEO Comparison, well, its like a Paramedic saving a patient. In my opinion, you can't compare different CEO's over different time frames. Each did what was considered right. I really liked both Mulally and Nasser.

Here in America Nasser was known as "Jac the Knife" When Nasser took over Ford the company was very profitable and he quickly ran it into the ground, Alan Mulally had to clean up Nasser's mess and literally save the company.

[82gt50]

They were going to, but your guy Hackett and his puppet in charge of Lincoln killed it. Luckily, that platform is at the beginning of its lifespan, so I'm hopeful we may yet see something cool on it. But that won't happen as long as Hackett's in charge.

"My guy Hackett"? I've never mentioned Hackett. Although I agree with the decision to cut sedan production I to think eliminating ALL sedans is not the right move. Hackett is out of his league and I suspect has the short sighted live for the next quarter balance sheet business philosophy that often damages companies years after they've moved on. A "What's the stock price today" priority and not a "how can we make the best vehicles for the market" is unfortunately too often how CEOs get and keep their jobs.

[ZephyrEFI]

Well, that's good. Then maybe you can appreciate that when I talk about bringing cars from Europe, I don't mean on a huge scale like they used to have when they were made here. I was thinking it could be on a more limited basis. Like the Transit Connect. There would be no expectation of selling in 1990s Honda Accord numbers. Maybe they bring only the ST and RS from the Focus line for that niche market. Stuff like that. Having only the Explorer to carry the ST banner is PRETTY lame.

It really p!$$ed me off when Hackett closed those doors COMPLETELY. That's

[wraithracing]

Having only the Explorer to carry the ST banner is PRETTY lame.

The 2020 Edge is offered in the ST also, although I know that is not what you are looking for.

[ZephyrEFI]

The 2020 Edge is offered in the ST also, although I know that is not what you are looking for.

[82gt50]

Well, that's good. Then maybe you can appreciate that when I talk about bringing cars from Europe...

Nope.
Do you know why the Accord and Camry are so popular {and overrated} ?
Because that size sedan is the most popular in America by far. If Ford is to keep one 4-door Sedan in the line it needs to be the Fusion. The Fusion far outsells every other Ford sedan albeit with marginal profit but every Fusion on the road means there is one less boring beige Camry and that is good. Besides, that 2.7L 325hp AWD Fusion Sport was surprising. I also notice as much as you like the Focus you don't have one but you do have a Fusion.

[ZephyrEFI]

Well, I guess there's just no reasoning with you.

But then why are you okay with them keeping the Fusion then? If you agree they should all be dumped, then you should want it gone! Cut your losses! Trim the fat! It's dead weight!

I've had 3 Foci since the most recent body style (we got) came out. Not only that, it turns out we never used the TC to it's full potential. So, it's being replaced by a Focus. An ST this time. Would have gone new, but Ford doesn't want my business.

We do love our Fusion. It's all the family car we need.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[82gt50]

Well, I guess there's just no reasoning with you.

Bottom line if the Focus was profitable in America it would remain in production, the car just isn't worth it here.
CUVs will continue and those platforms easily can be adapted to sedans assuming Americans suddenly want less room in their family car.

[xctasy]

Same issue in Australia. Ranger,Focus, Falcon, not proffitable without incentives from the state to build. Thats why the get made overseas or canned. Good flying cases for profit are SUVs and X Overs...but even the Ranger is tough to do economically...the Euro sedans can come on song only if they meet the profit requirements. Sedans are the new loss leaders, with a dowdy image, and they carry risks that deep sixed the profitable cars that had made money for 50 years. A sedan is a 1947 to 2013 taxi cab, with a loss to company image.

[ZephyrEFI]

Room isn't as key as you think. My Transit Connect has TONS more room than anything that has a similar passenger capacity this side of an extended Expedition. But people don't buy those, do they?

And I'll bet you the Focus would have been a much more important product to Ford in the US if they'd been committed to it. But they never have been. Going back to 1991 when they outsourced the Escort to Mazda. Even though that was not long after the Escort had been the best selling car in the US! Fast forward to 2000, we got similar Focus to Europe's, but it was watered down. 2004, Europe gets a new one, and we would be stuck with the same outdated model for another SEVEN years! 2012, it's finally brought in line with Europe, thank you One Ford. Only whoops, we're going to stick with this stupid half-baked POS DSG, and it gets a bad reputation. No wonder no one bought them, it was sabotaged from the beginning. How do I know? Well, the Escape is on the same platform, and it did NOT get the DSG. The Escape was actually important to them, ya see. If they'd actually TRIED to make a good small car here, it could be in the same league as the Civic, only Euro cool, and not hideous.

And profit isn't the only thing driving them either, or they would have stopped making anything in the US years ago.

[82gt50]

And profit isn't the only thing driving them either, or they would have stopped making anything in the US years ago.

False.
Why do you think Japanese car companies capitalize on their "Made In USA" propaganda? It sells. Toyota for example has been barking about it since the 90's because dumb ass average American car buyer want's to think he's supporting other American workers. Of course all of the profit goes back to Japan and any supplier to their American assembly plant is Japanese owned (Bodine Aluminum etc) but stupid American car buyers want to believe they're buying "American". Ask them and they'll tell you they'd never own an American car because of poor quality and then you'll have to suffer their stories of a '62 Rambler they owned as an example of their last bad American car. Then they'll try to convince you their Toyota was assembled here so it's more American than an F-150. So which is it? They hate American cars but proudly throw up that their Toyota is American?!?! Toro feces but it sells.

[jlehma13]

And profit isn't the only thing driving them either, or they would have stopped making anything in the US years ago.

If the domestics were of the mindset that the maturing civic owner would eventually buy a big Honda diesel 4x4, maybe. But Honda doesn't make a real work truck, owner loyalty is at an all-time low and the market continues trending towards suv's.

Every decision that Ford makes is predicated upon what the financial outcome will be. Product decisions, PR decisions, legal decisions. Money, money, money.

[ZephyrEFI]

Meh. I could see this version of Ford doing that. They've been making a lot of stuff in Mexico for years. Nothing is sacred anymore.

I just read that FCA is planning a new version of the Charger for 2023. GASP! A sedan?! How can they be so out of touch?!

[Str8sixfan]

I still think there's room for a Dodge Charger competitor - Full size V8 4-door rwd car in this market. But I won't go into that here.

I hope that as long as they're going to kill all cars beyond Mustang, that they don't turn the new Bronco into only a 4-door version. They're going to need to diversify what the SUV shapes come in I believe a little more than what they currently are.

[ZephyrEFI]

Of course I agree. It'll never happen as long as Hackett's in there though.

The Bronco's rumored to have both a 2-door variant, and an optional manual. Personally, I'll believe it when I see it. Nothing even the slightest bit interesting is allowed at the new Ford. Soulless appliances only. The Mustang gets a pass, but ONLY the Mustang.

The Bronco might not even make it out of development at this rate. It's taking them forever. If they're not careful, by the time it finally comes out, people will have forgotten about it.

You're lucky you're not brand loyal.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[82gt50]

Meh. I could see this version of Ford doing that. They've been making a lot of stuff in Mexico for years. Nothing is sacred anymore.

I just read that FCA is planning a new version of the Charger for 2023. GASP! A sedan?! How can they be so out of touch?!

And you said you didn't want a Fiat.
The next generation Charger was supposed to be here in 2021 but they delayed it at least 2 more years, by that time it's platform will be 17 years old.
Will it remain a full size rear wheel drive V8 sedan that can hit 60mph in 4 seconds or are these the last of the good old days.

[82gt50]

Personally, I'll believe it when I see it. Nothing even the slightest bit interesting is allowed at the new Ford. Soulless appliances only. The Mustang gets a pass, but ONLY the Mustang.

Evidence to the contrary.