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  1. #101
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Walking into a showroom now is like walking into a Cadillac or Lincoln dealer of the past.
    The palace like showroom buildings. Aircraft hanger clean repair bays.
    Nothing is affordable, nor designed, for all walks of life as cars were up to thru the 80's.
    Especially compared to the first Mustang.
    All that is the same in a dealer is the brand name, sign here, and clean restrooms.
    Wonder what the average income of a new Mustang buyer or F150 is or what they do for a living.

    Half way there to similarity of Rolls Royce company in low car volume and high price.
    And Kenworth/Peterbuilt for trucks. Gold plated jack an option?

  2. #102

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    Ford scraps plan to import Focus Active - blames Trump.
    In other news, "Ford" also blames Trump for killing all of the dinosaurs.
    In more other news, "Ford" also blames Trump for the Black Plaque.
    In more other news, "Ford" also blames Trump for ....

    In the article, note: The automaker won't reconsider its decision even if the tariffs are eventually dropped, a spokesman said.

    Imho, if Trump does something wrong, then he deserves to be blamed.
    Every President makes good and bad decisions.
    But, when people/"companies" blame Trump for 100% BS reasons, people should really stop and think about what that really says.

    Note: Although it's the Ford spokesman that made those comments.
    In real life, it's the decision of one or more top execs to make those comments. The Ford spokesman isn't some random person just saying random things that comes to his/her mind.


    From:
    http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...active-tariffs

    Ford scraps plan to import Focus Active amid U.S.-China trade war
    August 31, 2018 @ 11:30 am
    Michael Martinez Twitter Facebook RSS feed
    The Ford Focus Active -- a crossover-inspired variant which features a higher ride height, different bumpers and plastic protective strips -- was set to arrive in 2019.

    DETROIT — Ford Motor Co. on Friday said it is canceling plans to import a wagon version of the Focus to the U.S. from China because tariffs enacted by the Trump administration would cut into profits too much.

    The automaker won't reconsider its decision even if the tariffs are eventually dropped, a spokesman said.

    Ford had planned to bring the Focus Active to the U.S. in the second half of 2019 after discontinuing the sedan variant here. It had expected to sell fewer than 50,000 units a year.

    "The impact to our future sales is expected to be marginal," Kumar Galhotra, Ford's president of North America, told reporters on a conference call. "Our viewpoint is that, given the tariffs, our costs would be substantially higher. Our resources could be better deployed at this stage."

    Galhotra said the automakers did not see "significant risk" for its other two imports from outside North America: the EcoSport crossover from India and the Transit Connect van from Spain.

    The automaker is in the midst of a global restructuring expected to cost $11 billion over the next three to five years. It's revamping its North American vehicle lineup by eliminating all sedans in the coming years as it works to achieve 10 percent profit margins in the region.

    Ford first announced plans to bring the Focus Active to the U.S. in April, when it announced the sedan cuts and said it would be one of only two cars to remain at North American dealerships, along with the Mustang. The Focus Active already is sold in Europe, and Ford said it would continue with plans to build it in China for that market as well.

    Automakers around the world have urged the Trump administration not to impose tariffs on vehicles built in China.

    General Motors recently asked for an exemption on its China-made Buick Envision, which is currently under review. If it doesn't receive that exemption, executives have warned that GM could drop that vehicle from its U.S. lineup.

    Ford said an exemption would not have applied to the Focus Active because of its production timing and thus did not seek one.

    The Trump administration has so far slapped 25 percent tariffs on $50 billion in Chinese goods. Bloomberg reported yesterday that the administration is considering a plan to impose duties ranging from 10 to 25 percent on $200 billion in Chinese imports as soon as a public-comment period concludes next week.

  3. #103

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    Good. The "Focus Active" is stupid.

    When the sh** hits the fan for this kill-all-of-the-cars plan of theirs--and it WILL--they'll have to import cars from SOMEWHERE. They can't run from these short term policy changes forever. It takes too long to develop new cars and tool factories to build them. Hopefully by the time that happens, the European market will have forced the "Focus Active" out of production and we'd just get a regular Focus again because that's all they'd have for us. And it wasn't the wagon. I'd have liked it more if it was the wagon, but it was the 5-door body style.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  4. #104

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    I agree that I think that it was the right choice to not bring the Focus Active to the States.
    Then, Ford would also need to have parts/supplies/training/etc for that one new model - that wasn't even sold here before.
    Huh?

  5. #105
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    DATELINE TODAY:

    2nd quarter CAR (Not Truck or SUV) sales reported for Nissan, Toyota and Honda with ALL THREE DOWN over 15%+ in a continuing downward trend for sales of AUTOMOBILES/CARS for these market dominating AUTO makers!

    Nissan re-affirms it's commitments to building automobiles in face of a crashing market for automobile sales.

    Fortunately for Nissan, Honda and Toyota the dramatic continued drop in AUTOMOBILE sales has been more than off-set with the HUGE SURGE in their sales of small and mid-size SUV'S!

    MAYBE Ford is NOT as dumb as everyone seems to think!
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  6. #106
    FEP Senior Member Matt J's Avatar
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    I think the concern isn't that trucks are bad, or that Ford's trucks are bad, but that it's not a good idea to only have one product line. The imports sales are down because fuel is still relatively cheap. When the price of fuel goes up, trucks will be down and they won't have anywhere to go. All the Japanese brands make trucks and cars. Ford is focusing on short term profits, which are plentiful on the bloated high markup trucks with a large long-term risk to their market.

    I've said it several times, and I'll repeat it...Ford is still making cars, they're just not making them here. They're banking on fuel prices staying low for the long term and that the American market will keep buying up the high markup thirsty trucks that they make so well. When fuel prices go up and truck sales dry up like they did a decade ago, they'll cut back on production and IMPORT Ford cars to the US from Europe and Asia.

    Then we'll have to debate if a Ford made in Germany is more American than a Subaru made in Indiana...
    Last edited by Matt J; 09-05-2018 at 03:56 PM.

  7. #107

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    I have worked in the auto industry in Detroit for 20+ years and can tell you first hand that Ford has lost money on all it's cars for many years. You can argue they mismanaged the portfolio and rely too heavily on the big profits from trucks and SUVs, but GM and FCA are in the same boat. Last year alone it's estimated Ford lost $800m on cars in North America. Their stock fell to just above junk status this week falling below $10 and if not for a decent cash balance they would be in real trouble to survive in the near term. Cutting their car lineup at this point and downsizing in Europe is about survival not greed. It is highly likely they will need a partner to survive and there's been a lot of talk for over a year that VW is the mix.
    HAD
    14 Mustang GT
    94 Mustang GT
    93 Mustang LX

    HAVE
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  8. #108
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    VW does not make trucks that's why their cars survive as decent transportation.
    US automakers used to make both forever. Why won't they now?
    Gotten too complicated? Yet they spend for automatic driving research?
    Self driving cars. Yah 20 mph commutes. Add talk about flying cars too?

    Cars were pretty good late 60's mid 70's once disc brakes, radial tires became available.
    Then hit a wall with econ, safety, and emissions. Hard work and practical thinking solved that.
    80's. Unibodys. Wide variety of simple practical style, size, price again. Fuel mileage with decent power.
    Then fwd package and more govt regulations took over and shrunk cars. Back to the 70's.
    Computers came on line and began to solve things, then their use went wacko. Add global thinking.

    Everything had to have 4 doors, round gauges, fwd, and a console for some reason. RWD deemed ancient.
    Now its horsepower, entertainment, and driver aids instead of large repairable car, 50 mpg, and low MSRP.
    Fuel cost is 3x 1970's why is not fuel econ? MSRP is up 10x. Still dangerous and always will be.
    Computer age really messed up things eventually being over and mis applied.
    To do any formerly simple quick manual task like simple math, not to achieve practical rational goals.

    People still need space like always. SUV popular. May not like them but no real choice.
    SUV and pickups closer to what a full size car used to be than what one is now.
    Cars used to be custom made for all ages. Now have std content older people feel stupid having to put up with.

    Economic, sales reports are misleading. up/down x%? what is? units? no. ticket sales? no
    Dollars spent for something. Reports are as a money figure, not item count figure.
    Car success used to be how many units per year a model sold. Now its how much money is made from one.
    Last edited by gr79; 09-05-2018 at 07:15 PM.

  9. #109
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    see below

  10. #110
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    IMHO, the Fox Fords are the last ebe from the birth of the true Jet Age incarnnation of the three box sedan/ saloons or limousine. Although around since the time Cleopatra was carted about with a guy at the trunk and one at the front of a one box sedan, the truley modern "pontoon" came about around the 1946 Frazer and the Virgil Exner era 1947 Studebaker Champion/ Commander , a time where new roading interstate initiatives pushed cars into the " ponton genre" of three-box designs...what a sedan realy is., a full width, Longer, lower wider sedan. 49 Ford style. By 53, the trend was an ethos. Raymond Lowery sparked it up, and made the Studebaker Avanti the design spark that the Mustang notch continued

    As the average age of car owners goes back up, and as the family dogs or Significant Others Companion "Anumal" become transported in cars more often, then watch car design return dratically to non pontoon, taller two and one box designs, with no external trunk. Cars without the 53 era Lowery "comming and going" additional trunk box. With Electronic Stability programs ensure security, even a barn on wheels looking like it'll topple over, will sell, and be safe. Two and One Boxers are the transport that will grow in sales.

    With the expection on specialty Mustangs, Ford has ditched or is ditching the old Three Box sedan money looser, and its looking for better economies of scale like everyone else.

    Don't demonize them, its about survival going forward. Two and One Boxer SUV's, MPV's and X overs are "it". Enjoy the return to pre 49 Ford two box styling. Good news is that I'm sure the pickup is basically a three boxer...it will always sell. So will the Mustang.

    Just don't add another couple of doors on it and try to call it a Landau, or an impala style hardtop. That's the best way I know to kill a three box design...turn it into a fourdoor. Its okay if it starts off as a three box personal car like a Thunderbird four door, but the Jet Age Lo' Boy three boxer only survives as a specilist car. Sad thing is Ford cannot really spread the tooling cost of a Mustang through other model lines, and when cars become less mass produced, and sell in volumes below 100 000 units a year per continent, then there is a real risk of the relabity of the modle line dropping out. Its why Ford USA pulled out of Australia...short modle runs make it impossible to make the financials work.

    The Mustang and its former basis on the Cut Down 1964 Falcon/1964 Fairlane 1970 Torino/1978 Fairmont body engineering was a very sound, Mc Namara and Lido Ioccoa way of injecting money into making a 200000 plus car a year thing work out. The death of three boxes has made going it alone with all the eggs in one basket it a risky proposition. FoMoCo is facing a situation very much like what killed off the F car in the cash strapped era. Its no longer an option to cut down a Mustang from a high volume hip line sedan like the 1964, 1971 and 1979 Mustangs were. The Mopar and GM Specialty muscle cars are essentially cut down sedans. Ford's economies of scale might have to come off another SUV line, and the progression to safer AWD platfoms might mean some other kind of procurement of money model to offset the cost of making the next Mustang pay its way.

    The current line is very much living on the S type Jaguar and front Drive body engineering....the tab turret pressings in the body shop show that Ford is still using the older baselines to tune the Mustang to meet the crash regs. The next design will be expensive, and the the days of cost reductions from reworking the Piazza base with Jalepono spices and some wicked sauce are gone.

  11. #111
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    I am no Auto Executive and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night either, so I might completely off. As a life long Ford guy that has never bought anything new that wasn't a Ford product I have to say for the first time in my life I am considering other brands. This is a bit off the sedan issue, but for an automaker that is focusing solely on SUV's and Trucks I have to say I think they are missing the mark with several of their current and future offerings.

    I still drive my 2004 F250 PSD with over 250K miles and it's a great truck and I have no desire right now to spend the $60-80K for a new replacement. Yes, they have bells and whistles my 2004 never even thought of, but I just can't justify the cost with 2 girls in college and all my other expenses. So I fix and repair and keep the 2004 going.

    My wife has a 2015 Ford Edge SEL that we bought new for $40K plus. Unfortunately she HATES it now! Well maybe not HATE, but really doesn't like it. Blind spots, the damn Panoramic Roof, goofy hood profile, and several other complaints. Overall has been a decent reliable vehicle with decent power and fuel economy. Not really an SUV in that it has horrible ground clearance over anything but the smoothest surface and honestly is just at that size that just doesn't really work for anything but a general commuter for a family of no more than 4. Again not a terrible vehicle, but just really doesn't fit our family the way we need. Did we buy the wrong vehicle . . . Apparently YES. The problem is there are few choices overall in Ford's line up. The Explorer is essentially an enlarged Edge, so all the same basic issues in regards to ground clearance, ride quality, etc. with slight changes in hood line, etc. The Escape the same but on the smaller scale. The Expedition would have been a better choice, but wasn't the new design yet and the fuel economy was crap. The new 3.5 Ecoboost and even the new 5.0 are improving upon the fuel mileage still with great power, but I don't understand how GM continues to in most cases kick Ford's butt in the fuel mileage game with their 6.0/6.2 V8's in the Suburban/Tahoes/etc. I have friends that drive those vehicles and constantly get mileage that is 2-3 MPG better than the comparable Fords. I am not a fan of GM, their quality or styling, but I really feel like Ford either doesn't get it or just doesn't give a sh#t in this regard as it has been happening for YEARS.

    Then we get to the whole Ranger/Bronco issue. Obviously the Bronco is still not really known, but to say I am less than impressed with the Ranger would be an understatement. Maybe I am wrong and it will sell like alcohol at a ball game, or maybe like ice to an Eskimo. Personally I HATE IT! the overall styling, the lack of engine options, and the overall price sucks from top to bottom IMHO. Others will probably feel different and I know I am probably not the correct demographic for the Ranger, but with what they have come out with I would NEVER buy one. Unfortunately I believe the Bronco is going to be the same lame a$$ crap but with an extra set of doors. That really irritates me as I was hoping this MIGHT be my wife's next vehicle. A smaller SUV that has some off road clearance, decent power, decent styling, and the ability to load up and head to the mountains of Colorado for the weekend. I will still withhold judgement until we finally get to see the all new Bronco, but from what I am hearing and might be seeing it looks like a Jeep Grand Cherokee has a better chance of sitting in my driveway in the near future than another Ford product. Honestly that last sentence makes me nauseous just typing it. Unfortunately at this point in time it doesn't appear to me that Ford will be making anything that fits my needs and budget with their current offering. I will also say that if the Bronco is nothing more than the new Ranger with extra doors, then in my humble opinion Ford missed the Target entirely! I had great hopes the Bronco would be a modern interpretation of the ole school Bronco that would compete well and directly with the Jeep Wrangler/Rubicon and maybe it still will, but if the spy photos and some of the information that has been purported on the internet is true, then it is not anything that I will want to buy.
    Last edited by wraithracing; 11-07-2018 at 08:47 AM.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Ongoing RestoModification
    1984 SVO Awaiting Restoration
    1986 GT Wrecked by PO, but still want to save!

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
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  12. #112

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    xctasy, there is a bit of hope for the Mustang sharing a platform. The next Explorer/Aviator is RWD. And aren't crossovers based on car platforms? Isn't that one of the basic ingredients of a crossover? That's a glimmer of hope for me that cars may return. They'll be building vehicles here that share components with cars available in other markets.

    All I know is, I'm confused about this 4-door Mustang thing that's "comfirmed". Things have been made muddy by this thing they wanted to call "Mach 1", but wisely thought the better of it. Some stupid 4-door crossover thing with Mustang styling cues. Is that what they're talking about with the 4-door Mustang, or is it another product entirely?

    Then there's the same thing with the new Bronco and the "Baby Bronco" they're doing. I certainly confused the two, but I guess they are separate products. Weird. And stupid.

    Trey, that's one of my biggest beefs with crossovers, their major inefficiency of interior space from relatively large vehicles. It's why we went with a van instead. SO much room inside that thing!

    Our next vehicle outlook is like this: We'll keep the Fusion. We love it, it's paid off, and there's nothing available new that could take its place. The van will go at the end of its lease. If I have my way, I'll get myself a Fiesta or Focus ST (new if possible, but i'm not holding my breath. I'm pretty sure at least the Focus is out of production) for use as a commuter, and the Fusion will resume the role of family truckster. Otherwise MAYBE another Transit Connect. No truck or crossover for us. You listening Ford?!
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  13. #113
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    List of platforms
    GM- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM_platforms
    Ford- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_platforms
    FCA- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...sler_platforms

    Ford does not use cyl shutdown systems for economy. Ecoboost is the game.
    GM and FCA use cyl shutdown systems in engines.
    GM, FCA continue with pushrod engine design.

    Bronco- https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...anger-details/

    Will VW make Ford's cars and Ford make their trucks?
    Ford truck production is 900,00+
    https://www.torquenews.com/106/alumi...massive-margin

    Higher or lower fees for registration- http://www.ncsl.org/research/transpo...-by-state.aspx

    Cars used to have approx. 25,000 parts, Now its 30,000.
    For collision repairs, more parts have to be replaced vs older years.
    Higher insurance rates result.
    https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...ts/1301157002/
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorz.../#3797bf5053df

    A one percent increase in cost results in overall higher figure than in past due to higher base figure.
    Holiday spending will be higher than in past? Sure the cost of everything is higher. Does not mean more purchases.
    Same with movie ticket sales for, say, newest Star Wars flick. Not 3.00 anymore for a seat.
    Gross, net, revenue, ticket count, volume, units, are diff numbers to report success.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...sales_by_model
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...cle_production
    click on MAX graph button for 1967-2018 https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...car-production

  14. #114
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    Even as far as the pickups go, two of my coworkers just bought new trucks. One is a diehard Ford guy. He bought a 2019 1500 Silverado. The other bought a GMC Sierra. Both of them, it was for the same reason - they got relatively loaded Z71 package trucks for around 37K.the equivalent F150 was 48K. In the meantime, my boss has a 2015 F150 work truck, and I have a 2016. Both of our trucks have power windows that randomly roll themselves fully down when you press the up button (usually in the pouring rain) radios that randomly won't turn on, Bluetooth that will not connect our phones for days at a time, recalls on door latches,seat belts,and various other things. The 2015 the welds on the exhaust heat shields rusted off, and it was rattling like crazy until I ripped them off. ( on a 3 year old vehicle ). The quality is just not there, and they are overly proud of them, going by the prices. A 2019 Chevy Trail Boss (Raptor equivalent ) can be had cheaper than a loaded F150. Ford is lining themselves up for a crash, I think.
    Last edited by brianj; 11-08-2018 at 07:34 AM.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  15. #115

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    My "favorite feature" of my TC right now is how it "forgets" I was listening to satellite radio every. single. time. I turn the car off, and kicks me out to FM. NO!! I'll be backing down my driveway listening to commercials with no way to change it because the backup camera is on the display. Particularly enjoyable during campaign season.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  16. #116
    FEP Member James2488's Avatar
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    I think it is a bad idea that Ford is dropping the ball on the car market. I have read a few articles about 2020 fuel standards for shipping traffic and how it will be nearly impossible to get that much fuel to that standard in the short time. Below is a decent article about 2020 standards.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/ther...by-2020-2018-7

    They are talking either nothing will happen as refineries might be able to hit the low sulfur demand or that something like 2008 will happen as refineries bid up the oil with a low sulfer content until the refineries are able to get updated.

    Either way I see fuel prices climbing around me .50 in the last few months and I know something big is coming.
    2015 F350 6.7 CCLB Platinum
    2008 Taurus 3.5
    1997 F250 7.3 RCLB ZF5
    1985 Mustang GT T-tops 5.0/T5
    1968 Pontiac LeMans 400/ST-300

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