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  1. #51
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default Add Chrysler plus GM forgets how to make a Corvette handle

    Rumor?
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...n-us/87649136/

    Challenger and Charger are made in Brampton, Ontario Canada

    GM better get back to the drawing board on performance car manners.
    'The Corvette ZR1 Pace Car Crashed Before the Start of the Detroit IndyCar Race.'
    Chevy is title sponsor of the race.
    GM exec driving pace car loses it. Hit a bump in the road?
    https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...-indycar-race/

  2. #52

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    I heard that the Chrysler brand is going kaput altogether. Geez, something's got the auto makers running scared. It's... kind of annoying.

    As for the Corvette thing, that's embarrassing.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  3. #53
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Only Jeep and Ram in US factories. High mark up profit items.
    The company sure has shrunk in the last 10 years.
    Could not leave the simple econo K-car platform alone. Just like first Dart.
    Anything basic will sell if it is tried and true. Look at VW bug. Long run. Fox too.

    With the car going away, how long before special parts disappear?
    The ones that keep them on the road.
    Wonder how Pontiac, Olds, Saturn, many others cope with that.
    Resale value has to be very low. Prob worth more for parts.
    The older simpler cars, with large aftermarket support, will continue to be on the road.
    Last edited by gr79; 06-03-2018 at 11:55 PM.

  4. #54
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    The pace car driver drove pace car before, nor was going that fast.
    Possible flaw in the car itself. Or driver error (lunch cocktails)?
    The race cars had no problems there going way faster.

  5. #55
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrEFI View Post
    Geez, something's got the auto makers running scared.

    There sure is!

    It's called Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Subaru and the list continues when it comes to CARS and Small Trucks!
    Last edited by vintageracer; 06-04-2018 at 07:53 AM.
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by vintageracer View Post
    There sure is!

    It's called Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Subaru and the list continues when it comes to CARS and Small Trucks!
    If it was just that, all this would have happened in 1977, not now.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  7. #57
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrEFI View Post
    If it was just that, all this would have happened in 1977, not now.
    It DID!
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  8. #58

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    No it didn't. The American auto makers continued to be their same bloated selves, selling way more models and brands than there was any call for. The only parallel between then and now is a drop in sales.

    This time, I really believe they are doing the opposite and CUTTING far more than there's any call for.

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  9. #59
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    It's called NOBODY WANTS BIG 3 DOMESTIC AUTOMOBILES.

    I once read somewhere about something called "Market Forces" causing change with most folks slow to adapt over time to that impending CHANGE!

    Now I remember!

    It was from an article in the 1970's about the Big 3 "Automaker's" and their resistance to CONSUMER MARKET CHANGES AND PREFERENCES!

    At least ONE thing NEVER CHANGES!

    On second thought maybe it does change when the "Market" gives you LITTLE OR NO CHOICE!
    Last edited by vintageracer; 06-04-2018 at 01:32 PM.
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  10. #60

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    It is kind of a shame... I have 5 fords at the moment and 2 are current model CARS which I am happy with. Ford is not likely to get another penny from me in new vehicle purchases with this plan unless they bring out a new Lightning (reg cab, short bed please!) or offer a 2dr, 2wd Ranger that can be optioned juuuuust right.
    -Randy
    '83 Mustang GL notchback - 3.8 C5
    '92 Mustang LX hatchback - 2.3 T5 (2.3t soon)

  11. #61

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    There is a direct correlation between the decline in Ford's car model sales and the fact that they haven't done sh** with them introducing the current set of models. Sure, they updated them slightly here and there, but it's the same old story from the 2000s where they focused almost entirely on trucks and let the car models languish while the competition moved on. Anyone who buys cars based on cold hard stats would not consider a Ford because the stats don't measure up anymore.

    In the '70s, I think it was a different story. People talk about how they were slow to adapt to the market or "resistant to change", those cars for sale in the mid '70s had all been developed years earlier, before anyone knew the perfect storm of gas crisis, insurance change, and emissions regulation changes would all occur at once. The car industry simply cannot adapt that quickly. Not only that, they had to wrestle with the question whether Americans wanted traditionally American style cars at all anymore. They wagered that they did, developing downsized, but still American style cars. They did not do what they're doing now, which is CUT. If they had done then what they're doing now, Ford would have simply given up on making small cars after the Pinto, and would have never had the sales success they had with the Escort. I remember when the Escort was the best selling car in the US. By 1983 or so, Honda and Toyota had come out with the Accord and Camry. Ford might as well give up. Oops, that means they wouldn't have the sales success they had with the Taurus. See where I'm going here?

    That's what they're doing. Giving up. It's STUPID. And hoping the market will never change, which it will.

    Also, I love my current model Fords. I would buy more if they offered them. Am I "no one"?
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  12. #62
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    I can't wait to see the new Toyota Prius equipped with the "Special Service Package" (SSP) Police Package that's replacing the Taurus!

    Huh?

    Shows what I know.

    IT'S ALREADY HERE!!!!
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by vintageracer; 06-04-2018 at 01:31 PM.
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  13. #63
    FEP Power Member BLK BRD 88's Avatar
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    I am glad to see that there are a few other dinosaurs on here who quit buying new cars a couple of decades ago or more. The last new car that I wasted money buying was a 1972 Impala.

    SO, this whole idea of Ford stopping production of sedans has no effect on me, and I could care less!

    Presently our newest vehicle is a 97 Mountaineer.
    Here is what I am basically saying: I can do a whole bunch of repairs and upgrades on it and our 3 classic Fords without ever coming close to spending $37,000 which is the average price of a new car in the U.S.

    We buy, & sell, and get to drive, a variety of great older cars for a small percentage of what just one new car would cost us.
    Besides, I haven't seen anything out there in the new market for many years, that I would be prouder or happier driving than our Mountie, our 86GT vert, our SVO, or our 88 Turbo Coupe!
    end of rant..............!
    Ron
    I never seem to get the nut that holds the steering wheel fixed

  14. #64
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default

    Have mentioned this before.
    They may be cutting products because they cannot make them anymore.
    I apologize for the same rants again. Sad scene. Pray for them. Just want to help make things better for all.

    Talking Detroit area. No experience elsewhere.
    Notes from observation of auto industry indoor factory life, major employers:
    60's-90's. 40-48 hour week, weekends, holidays off have gotten rare.
    Numbers are the game now. Worker is a body. Computers run the show.
    Manufacturers have created overly complex products requiring huge amounts of labor and material.
    Spend huge money and time on QC programs to minimize recalls caused by this.

    Its about overall working conditions. Not the heat, cold, dirt, lighting, clean restrooms, break room stuff.

    Shortage of workers, skilled or non (labor shortage). Small or large company. Union or not.
    High turnover, constant training of new temps or direct hires.
    Robots don't take breaks or vac? They constantly shut down, by plan, for any little thing. A lot.
    High initial cost, limited flexibility, high maintenance even when new. Use lots of electricity.
    Require calling plant techs to fix minor glitchs. Downtime causes overtime to make up lost production.

    Base starting wages have been stagnant for 25 years. No pension, fully paid health care gone.

    Uncertain employment length (to buy a house, car) due to layoffs, plant closings, buyouts, relocations.
    Hours too long, too much mandatory overtime. 70 hours= almost 2 full time 40 hour jobs.
    The companies do not see it that way. We do. Its their fault, not the worker.

    Rules, rules, complicated rules. Write ups common for anything. Harassment is a tool used.
    2 discipline points for being 1 second late clocking in. Too many, say 12, and your gone. Erase in 1 year.
    Miss a day unexcused = 6 points. Call in does not get you excused. Fill out paperwork. No guarantees.

    Required to do what used to be 2 jobs (increased productivity). Fast pace is the norm. Like cutting lawns all day.
    Drugs? If you work fast, drink all the red bull and 5 hour pills you can handle.
    Management push push push. The stress will get ya if not prepared for it. Every move counts.
    Unsafe work pace, errors and safety incidents way more common. Make a big mistake? Off to the clinic you go.
    Strange overkill with ppe. Work anywhere on floor. Safety vests, goggles, earplugs, gloves, Kevlar sleeves, steel shoes.
    Or more. Helmets, harness, masks. Beyond common sense we would use at home or actually needed.
    May be required to wear a goofy looking uniform too. Something one would not want to be seen even in Walmart!
    Ya there are locker rooms. Who wants to spend non-paid time there?

    Spy cameras everywhere. Talking to coworker? Looking at phone on floor? Not physically moving?
    Boss takes cell phone pic for possible carpet call. Collections reviewed during daily supv. meetings.
    Short breaks, lunch. Too hot in plant? 5 minute heat break per hour above 90 heat index. WTF you gonna go in 5 to cool off?
    Shift schedules afternoons one week, days, etc. 4off, 3on, 3off, 4on or similar weirdness. May not have holidays off.

    Not enough workers can hack that lifestyle. I and many coworkers say its not all about money or benefits anymore.
    No more full time factory for me. Fond memories outnumber the bad and gonna keep it that way.
    Last edited by gr79; 06-04-2018 at 04:43 PM.

  15. #65
    FEP Power Member gmatt's Avatar
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    News item on the radio today: Trucks and SUVs account for 70% of US auto sales. And this: US drivers have grown accustomed to wild fluctuations in gas prices. And don't don't seem to care when it comes to their choice of vehicle.

    Seems like the crossover is replacing the traditional family sedan.

    http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...s-market-march

  16. #66
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Less product means fewer self driving platforms to design and engineer.

    Consumer surveys, indexes, ratings = bought and sold.

    Can reach the drive thru window purchase easily.
    SUV cargo area covered from elements and lockable. Higher height, easier to load and unload.
    Wave the wand and the trunk hatch opens. Doubles as a roof in the rain.
    More capable on crumbling or unpaved roads, deep water, snow. Does it all.

    No more concern getting monster truck style crushed by larger vehicles.
    More prone to rollover, but heck they are driven to Ceder Point.
    Upside down? No big deal. Park goers have been there, done that.

    No more having to look up to anyone anymore. Instant higher status.
    Can look down at us poor old car drivers.
    Last edited by gr79; 06-04-2018 at 07:20 PM.

  17. #67
    FEP Senior Member Matt J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmatt View Post
    News item on the radio today: Trucks and SUVs account for 70% of US auto sales. And this: US drivers have grown accustomed to wild fluctuations in gas prices. And don't don't seem to care when it comes to their choice of vehicle.

    Seems like the crossover is replacing the traditional family sedan.

    http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...s-market-march
    These reports don't really tell the whole story. Americans today have grown accustomed to fluctuating gas prices because they're still pretty cheap right now even though the prices have gone up of late due to international politics. But the truth is I remember about 12 years ago when we were looking at near $5/gallon prices. Trust me, nobody wanted a vehicle that got 15 MPG. I remember people trying to trade in a gas guzzling truck for a smaller more efficient car and dealerships offering them pennies on the dollar or even declining trades outright because they knew they couldn't sell the thing used either. That was the beginning of the automakers crashing in the US and some of them needing taxpayer bailout money to survive. This will happen again, no doubt.

    These automakers aren't stopping making cars, they're just stopping making them here . They'll still make them in Europe and Asia, Mexico and Canada. When prices of fuel skyrocket, they'll revisit selling cars in the US, but they'll import them from another country. It's not new, I remember driving a Focus made in Mexico as a company car years ago. SUVs have their advantages, my family owns a CR-V, but in the end people buy what is marketed and offered to them. I really want a small single cab truck like the old Ranger to replace my old hatchback, but you can't buy one anymore, so I'll end up buying something else. It looks like, when doing market research, that I will have "wanted" whatever I end up buying, but the reality is that I'll choose from what's out there. Which isn't much, I'm afraid. The big three have been trying their level best to drive the market to high margin trucks and truck-based platforms for years. They make more money on them, and they don't really have to compete with anyone else with them (traditionally in the last 30 years when we go head to head with the big Japanese brands we don't fare well, which is too bad because it doesn't need to be that way). Most other carmakers focus on cars and might offer a light truck, whereas American makes tend to do the opposite.

  18. #68

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    You make some good points, Matt. I definitely agree there's a limit to how much gas prices will be able to "fluctuate" before people start wanting small cars again. IT WILL HAPPEN, HACKETT, YOU DUMBASS.

    Also to your point about Ford still making cars elsewhere, this is one small way I think this might work out well for us. Maybe if they stop developing cars specifically for the US market, or in the case of the last round of new Fords, modifying them pretty extensively (dumbing them down) from the already fully baked European cars for our market because they need to squeeze every last bit of profit out of every unit they can. For example, in Europe, the Focus's workhorse engine is the 1.6L Ecoboost. Here, it's the cheaper to build 2.0 GDI engine. Say there is a gas panic in 2021 or so. Ford would do well to simply begin importing the regular Focus to us (not that stupid-ass Outback version). The very same one they sell in Europe. Not a dumbed down version they wasted a bunch of money developing just for us. So, that's what I think might actually be better than the status quo when the time comes WHICH IT WILL. I don't mind a Ford built in Europe at all. In fact, my Transit Connect was built in Spain.

    Unfortunately my example, the Focus, will be built in China by then. THERE, I draw the line. Maybe they'll bring us the next gen German built Mondeo too.

    Speaking of the Mondeo, we haven't mentioned the fact that the Fusion is still selling pretty damn well right now in a while. It's idiotic of them to turn away from those sales.

    And to one more of your points, Matt, I agree they probably track things people "want" based on what they BUY, not what they actually WANT. I WANT my Transit Connect to have a manual and a turbo engine. I'm sure I was happily counted among the Americans who now prefer automatics. NO!!
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  19. #69
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrEFI View Post
    I WANT my Transit Connect to have a manual and a turbo engine.
    Pay out of YOUR POCKET for ALL the Federal Emission's Testing procedures that are required to "Emissions Certify" that "Turbo/Stick" drivetrain install in the Transit Connect platform and they just might build the ONE Turbo/Stick Transit Connect that would be ordered and it would be JUST FOR YOU!

    Otherwise I'd say you are SOL!
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  20. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by vintageracer View Post
    Pay out of YOUR POCKET for ALL the Federal Emission's Testing procedures that are required to "Emissions Certify" that "Turbo/Stick" drivetrain install in the Transit Connect platform and they just might build the ONE Turbo/Stick Transit Connect that would be ordered and it would be JUST FOR YOU!

    Otherwise I'd say you are SOL!
    It's already done. Or, it would be if they could certify based on other cars with the same drivetrain.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  21. #71
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrEFI View Post
    It's already done. Or, it would be if they could certify based on other cars with the same drivetrain.
    Therein lies the stupidity.

    They CAN'T certify based upon other vehicles in their lineup using the same drivetrain!
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  22. #72
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Train station.
    Glad someone saved that old relic.
    Getting into the railroad business?
    Profit taking working at its best.
    So if they max profits selling trucks, is an airport next?

    https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...ion/690649002/

  23. #73

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    Certainly a cool piece of history they're saving and certainly cool of them to do that for their city, but why now? They're supposedly too poor to build sedans, but they can do this?

    Saw an article confirming the Continental is done, and the next gen Mustang is delayed. Desperate times call for desperate measures, right? Oooo, a train station!

    I got a response from Ford to my letter. Pretty much a rehash of what their plans are. Yep. Don't care, lady. Not buying a crossover.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  24. #74
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    How they gonna do automatic cars if they don't build any?

  25. #75
    FEP Senior Member Matt J's Avatar
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    They're going to build them overseas and import them.

    I saw something on the highway the other day that has stuck in my head. A late-model Corvette racing a Nissan Leaf just outside of Atlanta. It was in traffic, and the Leaf was actually ahead the last I saw. I laughed when I saw the Leaf pass (the Vette was stuck behind another car) and I actually shouted out to nobody in my car something along the line of "oh, man, you can't let him do that to you". But it's given me a lot of thought since then. Jeez, things are changing.

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