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  1. #76

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    Both this month's Car and Driver and Automobile have good editorials about the Ford thing. I suggest you check them out. Eddie Alterman of C&D calls out my main man Mullaly for dumping all the luxury brands which made it much harder to make a profit on their platforms. He says leaving Ford as the sole (healthy) brand resulted having to charge more for new platforms in order to make a profit, hurting sales. That's an interesting angle I hadn't thought of. Even Mercury COULD have helped them make a profit if they'd handled it better.

    Jamie Kitman of Automobile talks about the usual stuff like artificially cheap gas, and the neutering of the EPA. Does anyone actually believe the government WON'T change parties every few years? It's just so stupid. CAFE standards are GOING to come back! It's not even a question!

    People are fickle. He makes a VERY good point that people could EASILY come to see crossovers as they started to see minivans in the '90s. Then what would they do?! And what about the enthusiast market that they had just won back with cars like the STs and SHO? You really think you're going to steer them ALL into Mustangs?! If they wanted Mustangs, they would buy Mustangs! Favor with the compact market is especially delicate. If you lose it with them, it's like the kiss of death. That's why it pisses me off so much when magazine award stupid intangible points the incumbents like the GTI in comparison tests such that they win by a nose. You can't do that, or the newcomers never have a chance! I know it's supposed to be subjective, but they have to realize that they have a certain responsibility too.

    Anyway, all i can say is, they'd better damn well have a contingency plan like importing cars from Europe or something. Yes Ford, we still know about the great cars in Europe. Just like we did before you brought them to us 7 years ago.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  2. #77
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Car and Driver, Automobile, are based in Ann Arbor MI, 30 miles west of FWHQ.
    Went to a Ford dealer car lot today.
    Seen used 2013 F-250 4x4 diesel. 33,000.00, 90k, worn out suspension, tires, dents, who knows what else.
    Last edited by gr79; 12-01-2018 at 01:40 AM.

  3. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by gr79 View Post
    I agree.

    Car and Driver, Automobile are based in Ann Arbor MI, 30 miles west of FWHQ. They see it.
    We here in Detroit area hear a lot more than most. Every little thing automotive makes local news.

    Went to a Ford dealer car lot today.
    The new F-150 trucks are so expensive, its like they were parked in the rich neighborhood.
    A used 2013 F-250 4x4 diesel nothing to brag about. 33g, 90k, worn out suspension, tires, dents, who knows what else.
    Sure overall it looked ok but looks dont haul the butt. Looks good waiting for costly repairs. Aint much cheap on them.
    Will only get worse the higher the MSRP gets no matter what line or brand.

    Absolutely watch https://www.history.com/shows/the-ca...-america/about
    Seen it. True stories. Great ones to keep.
    Auto company people could learn how they got there and get back on the right road.
    About what people need not want. Just because it can be done does not mean it should be done.
    That looks like a great show!

    I was just talking to my dad yesterday and he was saying how every Mustang you see is a GT500; every Challenger is a Hellcat. It's the same with trucks. Every F150 is a Raptor or a "limited production" Platinum. Give me a break. People HAVE to be spending WAY beyond their means, there being so many of those things around. The bottom could EASILY fall out of this wild spending spree people are on. What if the economy tanks and the banks no longer want to offer 6 and 7 year loans or low lease rates? That's gonna dry up REAL quick. Then what will Ford have for people? Jack squat!

    It was interesting to me that Automobile had TWO articles in it this month about companies who take older cars and restore them to better than new. But it wasn't necessarily cars that are in high demand like '60s muscle. It was '80s Firebirds (KITT replicas--SUPER cool!) and '90s Land Rovers. Maybe that's the future of the enthusiast market if the manufacturers aren't going to build anything for us anymore. It certainly made me feel good about the direction I'm taking my Zeph, that's for sure!
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  4. #79
    FEP Member James2488's Avatar
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    I can't believe Ford is killing most of their cars. I don't think that the problem is that they can't sell cars, I think the problem is that they can't make a car that people want to buy.

    When I was looking for something newer (coming from a 5 optioned OBS 7.3 as a DD) I strictly looked @ Ford (diehard Ford guy here) they didn't have anything that was priced well that I wanted to buy. I spent the little bit of extra money and bought a truck that I wanted. I bought used so that helped.

    A base car should still have appeal to it, they need to focus on making vehicles that people want to buy & drive. That's why Lincoln is doing so bad, it's a spiffed up version of it's Ford sibling, they can't sell what no one wants to drive buy changing the name a making it look shinier. I'm not saying that they need to make a whole new line for Lincoln, they need to improve on the overall first before tweaking it. Tweaking junk is still junk. Look at the Focus ST/RS, people really like those and I think it would've been fun. I would've bought one but I am a diesel guy (if Ford sold a diesel car I would be all over that). It didn't really make sense to take the hard 1st owner depreciation expense either.

    Basically they have the finger pointed at the wrong solution, it will come back to bite them when the fuel goes back up and it will. I know the $3.899/gal for diesel was a real wallet pain for 38 gallons.
    2015 F350 6.7 CCLB Platinum
    2008 Taurus 3.5
    1997 F250 7.3 RCLB ZF5
    1985 Mustang GT T-tops 5.0/T5
    1968 Pontiac LeMans 400/ST-300

  5. #80
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default They are addicted to tech

    DAP and other plants functioned for many years. Now, few factorys go past 20.
    Need a clean room environment to build a car.
    So many wind up in salvage with many good parts never to be used again.
    Last edited by gr79; 12-01-2018 at 02:03 AM.

  6. #81

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    I've put a LOT of thought into what I could do instead of leasing every few years. I really like the idea of buying something simple and durable as family vehicles/daily drivers. Like a Crown Vic or '90s Explorer. They are SUPER common, cheap, and easy to work on. Just like you say, as long as the A/C works, I'm happy. And it's not completely out of the question to swap to a manual trans to up the fun factor and increase durability (seems like most commonly known Ford problems are their automatic transmissions) like it is with modern cars. Like say, if I wanted to go to a manual on my van. The drivetrains do exist (like say from a Focus ST), but what about all the other computers and systems on the car. They all need to talk to each other, and they would all be confused. It's pretty much a no-go. Rewinding the clock a bit to a simpler time is VERY appealing to me, and becoming more so every day with the news coming out of the car industry.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  7. #82
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Auto transmission is one item was thinking about on a used car.
    I know someone with a late 2000's GM van, 60,000 miles.
    Bought it new. Cash. Trans is acting up already. A truck trans.
    Last edited by gr79; 12-01-2018 at 01:50 AM.

  8. #83
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Popular regular cars. 1960-1990
    Olds Cutlass, Malibu
    Plymouth Duster. Dart
    Ford Escort
    Ford Fairlane
    Pinto
    Crown Vic, Impala rwd
    Mustang, Camaro
    Rebuilt with new tech better materials, can last a long time, way less distractions, easy to drive.
    20 mpg drive train, simple or inexpensive to repair.
    Good interior space, visibility. No bags, assists, screen menus.
    Last edited by gr79; 12-01-2018 at 02:04 AM.

  9. #84
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    What's the big deal?

    Ford killed the Model T, Model A, Crown Vic several times, Ranchero, Falcoon, Pinto, Galaxie, Thunderbird, Ford GT, Ford GT40, Torino, Ford 500 and many more.

    The success of the restoration of the Detroit Station by Ford will = the success Ford had with FORDLANDIA!

    Ford should stick to building VEHICLES in these modern times as they will become a much smaller company with a much smaller product line!
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  10. #85

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    I was skimming this clickbait article about "Fords that weren't built Ford Tough" or some BS. It was a bit of a walk down memory lane, with some that belonged there, but many that didn't. The legit ones, I noticed a pattern. I would think to myself "oh yeah, the autos in those were terrible... " more often than not. The Contour, '90s Taurus, up to the modern day Focus with its half-baked DSG. The trouble could have easily been avoided by selecting the correct drivetrain. Then they were totally solid cars. I loved my manual Foci, and will probably be buying another one!

    Vintage, if that's all this is, a "car line reboot" like they seem to feel they need to do every 10-20 years with all new nameplates, I would be fine with that. They haven't said that though. They've said they are DEAD. As in never to return.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  11. #86
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    The Ford Edge, Ford Escape, Ford EcoSport, Ford Flex and Ford Explorer.

    ALL OF THEM ARE FOUR DOOR CARS WITH NO TRUNK-LID!
    Last edited by vintageracer; 07-12-2018 at 11:05 AM.
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  12. #87

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    The Ford Edge, Ford Escape, Ford EcoSport, Ford Flex and Ford Explorer
    ALL OF THEM ARE FOUR DOOR CARS WITH NO TRUNK-LID!
    Everybody wants a SUV. I was at a Ford display at a few weeks a go and no one was looking at the Taurus or Fusion, but there were always people around the SUV's and trucks.
    85 GT - owned since 87

  13. #88
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Breaking news- Ford will shrink to one model.
    Re-intro of Model T as 'Model ATM' for 2025.
    Choice of color as long as its Safety Green or Orange.
    Refuels itself. Eco friendly lifetime oil and tires. Office in car capable.
    Self driving to store or fast food, and back.
    Drops passengers off to ball game and finds parking for itself. Tweet and it comes to you.
    Optional UBER mode to earn its keep during downtime.
    Hovercraft option for smooth ride over potholes and flooded or washed out roads.
    MSRP= "How much you got?"
    Last edited by gr79; 12-01-2018 at 02:05 AM.

  14. #89

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    Funny you mention load floor height. Minivans have MUCH lower load floor height! Not to mention much better space efficiency. All that space CUVs waste on ground clearance no one's ever going to use, minivans use as useful storage space. No one notices that though.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  15. #90
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    UGLY will "Trump" Useful EVERY TIME!
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  16. #91
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default vehicle loading height is a selling point

    In defense of the SUV, truck:
    Everyone has bought items, then had to figure out how to get them home in the car.
    Fun watching people try to stuff bulky items inside a car. Grills, lawnmowers. TV's.
    Last edited by gr79; 12-01-2018 at 01:57 AM.

  17. #92
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default June to intro new cars?

    Now Detroit Auto Dealer Assn (DADA) thinks June is the best month to host Detroit North America Auto Show.
    June- what new cars? Nearly the end of current model year run.
    Tradition for new model year intro was September for many years.
    Last edited by gr79; 12-01-2018 at 02:00 AM.

  18. #93

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    What's the difference, really? At this rate, Ford probably won't be introducing anything I'm interested in ever again!

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  19. #94
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Mustang, Camaro, Challenger: Each is like a three car expense on 4 wheels.
    Regular daily driver, race car, luxury car.
    Last edited by gr79; 12-01-2018 at 02:02 AM.

  20. #95
    FEP Senior Member Matt J's Avatar
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    The most stunning thing for me isn't that the manufacturers make $70+ thousand dollar pickup trucks, it's that people buy them. Lots of them. A basic pickup truck now is $35k. People financing vehicles for 6 or 7 years because they can't afford them but keep on buying them anyway. I keep seeing an ad on TV right now where GM is offering $10k off MSRP on their new trucks. That's about half of what a decent truck cost to buy 15 years ago, and you still know they're making a ton of profit on them. I like trucks, but I just can't see where I'll ever see that as a reasonable purchase.

    I was watching a collector car show recently where the person on the TV was talking about how old truck values have really shot up. It's because you can get a really pretty mid 60s or early 70s truck in top condition for $15k. If you really only need a truck as a truck once in a while it's cheaper to buy one of those to run errands in and tool around in on nice days, and buy a small car in addition for regular commuting. It's crazy.

  21. #96
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default pricing themselves out of business?

    Build vehicles with no model year?
    Last edited by gr79; 12-01-2018 at 02:07 AM.

  22. #97
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default Don't dress me (it)- am old enough to do it myself

    Is discontinuing products, because they are no longer affordable, accountability?

    Gosh what was Ford thinking making a compact economy car? And using its parts to make a pony car?

    1964 Falcon Futura 4 door sedan at a cruise today:
    Name:  telegraph 718 64 Falcon Futura (17).jpg
Views: 85
Size:  74.8 KB

    Deja vu- Ford and others should reread how it came about and govt get its nose the hell out of the car/truck business:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_F...North_America)

    Too bad that in 1964, many vastly improved basic components, like disc brakes, were a few years away.
    What would the same body style drive like with simple interchangable 4cyl, 6cyl, or v8 fox chassis era parts?
    Forget using new expensive era chassis, power train, etc, that defeat the purpose of what economy was and is all about.

    "Developed under the watch of S. "Bunkie" Knudsen, Mustang evolved "from speed and power" to the growing consumer demand for bigger and heavier "luxury" type designs.[30] "The result was the styling misadventures of 197173 ...the Mustang grew fat and lazy,"
    Last edited by gr79; 12-01-2018 at 02:08 AM. Reason: missspelled a word

  23. #98
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default 10 millionth Mustang

    Last edited by gr79; 12-01-2018 at 02:09 AM.

  24. #99

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    Too bad Ford isnt doing exciting things, like in my opinion Chrysler has done. Chrysler has done some flat out cool things in the last several years. Their R/T and SRT/8 options are available across model lines.

  25. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by fairmonster View Post
    Too bad Ford isnt doing exciting things, like in my opinion Chrysler has done. Chrysler has done some flat out cool things in the last several years. Their R/T and SRT/8 options are available across model lines.
    I agree they missed SEVERAL opportunities to cash in on a little 'Mer'ca nostalgia with RWD V8 sedans or SUVs. There were a number of times they were looking at doing it, but crapped out and banked on the LAME D3 FWD chassis instead. That Mustang chassis is BAD-ASS. Wasting it on only the Mustang is a crime.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

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