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  1. #76

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    Both this month's Car and Driver and Automobile have good editorials about the Ford thing. I suggest you check them out. Eddie Alterman of C&D calls out my main man Mullaly for dumping all the luxury brands which made it much harder to make a profit on their platforms. He says leaving Ford as the sole (healthy) brand resulted having to charge more for new platforms in order to make a profit, hurting sales. That's an interesting angle I hadn't thought of. Even Mercury COULD have helped them make a profit if they'd handled it better.

    Jamie Kitman of Automobile talks about the usual stuff like artificially cheap gas, and the neutering of the EPA. Does anyone actually believe the government WON'T change parties every few years? It's just so stupid. CAFE standards are GOING to come back! It's not even a question!

    People are fickle. He makes a VERY good point that people could EASILY come to see crossovers as they started to see minivans in the '90s. Then what would they do?! And what about the enthusiast market that they had just won back with cars like the STs and SHO? You really think you're going to steer them ALL into Mustangs?! If they wanted Mustangs, they would buy Mustangs! Favor with the compact market is especially delicate. If you lose it with them, it's like the kiss of death. That's why it pisses me off so much when magazine award stupid intangible points the incumbents like the GTI in comparison tests such that they win by a nose. You can't do that, or the newcomers never have a chance! I know it's supposed to be subjective, but they have to realize that they have a certain responsibility too.

    Anyway, all i can say is, they'd better damn well have a contingency plan like importing cars from Europe or something. Yes Ford, we still know about the great cars in Europe. Just like we did before you brought them to us 7 years ago.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  2. #77
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    I agree.

    Car and Driver, Automobile are based in Ann Arbor MI, 30 miles west of FWHQ. They see it.
    We here in Detroit area hear a lot more than most. Every little thing automotive makes local news.

    Went to a Ford dealer car lot today.
    The new F-150 trucks are so expensive, its like they were parked in the rich neighborhood.
    A used 2013 F-250 4x4 diesel nothing to brag about. 33g, 90k, worn out suspension, tires, dents, who knows what else.
    Sure overall it looked ok but looks dont haul the butt. Looks good waiting for costly repairs. Aint much cheap on them.
    Will only get worse the higher the MSRP gets no matter what line or brand.

    Absolutely watch https://www.history.com/shows/the-ca...-america/about
    Seen it. True stories. Great ones to keep.
    Auto company people could learn how they got there and get back on the right road.
    About what people need not want. Just because it can be done does not mean it should be done.

  3. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by gr79 View Post
    I agree.

    Car and Driver, Automobile are based in Ann Arbor MI, 30 miles west of FWHQ. They see it.
    We here in Detroit area hear a lot more than most. Every little thing automotive makes local news.

    Went to a Ford dealer car lot today.
    The new F-150 trucks are so expensive, its like they were parked in the rich neighborhood.
    A used 2013 F-250 4x4 diesel nothing to brag about. 33g, 90k, worn out suspension, tires, dents, who knows what else.
    Sure overall it looked ok but looks dont haul the butt. Looks good waiting for costly repairs. Aint much cheap on them.
    Will only get worse the higher the MSRP gets no matter what line or brand.

    Absolutely watch https://www.history.com/shows/the-ca...-america/about
    Seen it. True stories. Great ones to keep.
    Auto company people could learn how they got there and get back on the right road.
    About what people need not want. Just because it can be done does not mean it should be done.
    That looks like a great show!

    I was just talking to my dad yesterday and he was saying how every Mustang you see is a GT500; every Challenger is a Hellcat. It's the same with trucks. Every F150 is a Raptor or a "limited production" Platinum. Give me a break. People HAVE to be spending WAY beyond their means, there being so many of those things around. The bottom could EASILY fall out of this wild spending spree people are on. What if the economy tanks and the banks no longer want to offer 6 and 7 year loans or low lease rates? That's gonna dry up REAL quick. Then what will Ford have for people? Jack squat!

    It was interesting to me that Automobile had TWO articles in it this month about companies who take older cars and restore them to better than new. But it wasn't necessarily cars that are in high demand like '60s muscle. It was '80s Firebirds (KITT replicas--SUPER cool!) and '90s Land Rovers. Maybe that's the future of the enthusiast market if the manufacturers aren't going to build anything for us anymore. It certainly made me feel good about the direction I'm taking my Zeph, that's for sure!
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  4. #79

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    I can't believe Ford is killing most of their cars. I don't think that the problem is that they can't sell cars, I think the problem is that they can't make a car that people want to buy.

    When I was looking for something newer (coming from a 5 optioned OBS 7.3 as a DD) I strictly looked @ Ford (diehard Ford guy here) they didn't have anything that was priced well that I wanted to buy. I spent the little bit of extra money and bought a truck that I wanted. I bought used so that helped.

    A base car should still have appeal to it, they need to focus on making vehicles that people want to buy & drive. That's why Lincoln is doing so bad, it's a spiffed up version of it's Ford sibling, they can't sell what no one wants to drive buy changing the name a making it look shinier. I'm not saying that they need to make a whole new line for Lincoln, they need to improve on the overall first before tweaking it. Tweaking junk is still junk. Look at the Focus ST/RS, people really like those and I think it would've been fun. I would've bought one but I am a diesel guy (if Ford sold a diesel car I would be all over that). It didn't really make sense to take the hard 1st owner depreciation expense either.

    Basically they have the finger pointed at the wrong solution, it will come back to bite them when the fuel goes back up and it will. I know the $3.899/gal for diesel was a real wallet pain for 38 gallons.
    2015 Ford F350 CCLB Platinum
    2008 Ford Taurus
    1997 Ford F250 7.3 RCLB ZF5
    1985 Mustang GT T-tops 5.0/T5
    1968 Pontiac LeMans 400/ST-300

  5. #80
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default They are addicted to tech

    Ford and others too busy building nests (office, factory infrastructure), playing with toys (pc's, automation).
    Then lay bad or golden eggs (product). Fast food in the form of cars. Mandates caused most of this.
    Hypocrites. Too much invested to gain too little, except non-essential 'flash' selling points?
    Afraid of mfg malpractice? Recalls? Never had many way back. Less went wrong.

    Most only need working a/c to sit in traffic jams and overall visibility, durability, and reliability.
    Have something left to trade at lease end or keep past payoff. Low ownership costs.
    No time to keep repairing and tie up an only car or throw otherwise good away.
    Have to trade because of flaws, costs, not from being bored with product.

    DAP and other plants functioned for many years. Now, few factorys go past 20.
    Clean rooms to make cars, then throw away everything like napkins.

    A visit to a picapart yard is humbling. So many good parts wasted.

    Why is everything priced based on two income households?
    One income households, seniors, students, priced out of the new market for years now.
    Fixed costs have risen much faster than income, more so than in the past.
    Used on lots can cost huge due to maint repairs. Like the a/c, suspension, worn seats, many others.
    Why does rust or major repair still kill an other wise good car?
    Why did they build anything you wanted, but wont now?
    Choice of basic car/truck to spec up or delete items. Forced to bundle. What a joke and scam.

    1960-1990
    A few popular regular cars.
    Would be decent cars to own now.
    Non performance versions.
    Flexible platforms found with 4, 6, v8.
    Station wagons, big 2, 4 doors.
    Olds Cutlass, Malibu
    Plymouth Duster. Dart
    Ford Escort
    Ford Fairlane
    Pinto
    Crown Vic, Impala rwd
    Mustang, Camaro
    Rebuilt with new tech better materials, can last a long time, way less distractions, easy to drive.
    20 mpg drive train, simple or inexpensive to repair.
    No full size car or luxury content shrunk to compact size. Ok for but not all the cars.
    They had more interior space, visability. No need for bags, beams, assists.

  6. #81

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    I've put a LOT of thought into what I could do instead of leasing every few years. I really like the idea of buying something simple and durable as family vehicles/daily drivers. Like a Crown Vic or '90s Explorer. They are SUPER common, cheap, and easy to work on. Just like you say, as long as the A/C works, I'm happy. And it's not completely out of the question to swap to a manual trans to up the fun factor and increase durability (seems like most commonly known Ford problems are their automatic transmissions) like it is with modern cars. Like say, if I wanted to go to a manual on my van. The drivetrains do exist (like say from a Focus ST), but what about all the other computers and systems on the car. They all need to talk to each other, and they would all be confused. It's pretty much a no-go. Rewinding the clock a bit to a simpler time is VERY appealing to me, and becoming more so every day with the news coming out of the car industry.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  7. #82
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Auto transmissions are one of the item was thinking about on a used car.
    I know someone with a late 2000's GM van, 60,000 miles.
    Trans is acting up already.
    So was used once to rock van out of snow rut. So what.
    Auto makers know its going to happen.
    Why 10 speeds and no durability? prob a 5000.00 trans.
    Again, focus and energy used up designing for fuel mileage and power.

    Self parking? Who needs that? That is basic driving. Incline meters, g force readouts.
    Where the hell is the 'stuck in snow or mud' power train program?

    Heck if it was a choice, we would stick a real Allison automatic trans in the van.
    Like a trash truck. Bulletproof. Gets hammed on constantly.
    Now everything is like you say, linked with complex wiring and electronics.
    Custom drive trains like hot rods or race cars.
    Only these are sealed with a kiss by govt and auto co. In the f-u way.

  8. #83
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    If they are killing cars, what are these people doing?
    Who is going to fix automatic cars or trucks?
    Where is the funding money coming from?
    http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...ing-innovation

  9. #84
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    What's the big deal?

    Ford killed the Model T, Model A, Crown Vic several times, Ranchero, Falcoon, Pinto, Galaxie, Thunderbird, Ford GT, Ford GT40, Torino, Ford 500 and many more.

    The success of the restoration of the Detroit Station by Ford will = the success Ford had with FORDLANDIA!

    Ford should stick to building VEHICLES in these modern times as they will become a much smaller company with a much smaller product line!
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  10. #85

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    I was skimming this clickbait article about "Fords that weren't built Ford Tough" or some BS. It was a bit of a walk down memory lane, with some that belonged there, but many that didn't. The legit ones, I noticed a pattern. I would think to myself "oh yeah, the autos in those were terrible... " more often than not. The Contour, '90s Taurus, up to the modern day Focus with its half-baked DSG. The trouble could have easily been avoided by selecting the correct drivetrain. Then they were totally solid cars. I loved my manual Foci, and will probably be buying another one!

    Vintage, if that's all this is, a "car line reboot" like they seem to feel they need to do every 10-20 years with all new nameplates, I would be fine with that. They haven't said that though. They've said they are DEAD. As in never to return.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  11. #86
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    The Ford Edge, Ford Escape, Ford EcoSport, Ford Flex and Ford Explorer.

    ALL OF THEM ARE FOUR DOOR CARS WITH NO TRUNK-LID!
    Last edited by vintageracer; 07-12-2018 at 10:05 AM.
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  12. #87

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    The Ford Edge, Ford Escape, Ford EcoSport, Ford Flex and Ford Explorer
    ALL OF THEM ARE FOUR DOOR CARS WITH NO TRUNK-LID!
    Everybody wants a SUV. I was at a Ford display at a few weeks a go and no one was looking at the Taurus or Fusion, but there were always people around the SUV's and trucks.
    85 GT - owned since 87

  13. #88
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    SUV popular because of load floor height and shape vs trunk well? Throw and go.
    Pickups have same features with slightly more rear visibility and big cargo capacity.

    Newer cars have uncomfortable low tight entrance, exit. Especially for the handicapped.
    No safe visibility, sunken and easily forgotten in a world of taller rides.

    So Ford shrinks to one model. Reintro of Model T as Model ATM for 2025.
    Choice of color as long as its Safety Green or Orange.
    Refuels itself. Eco friendly lifetime oil and tires. Office in car capable.
    Self driving to store or fast food, and back.
    Drops passengers off to ball game and finds parking for itself. Tweet and it comes to you.
    Optional UBER mode to earn its keep during downtime.
    Hovercraft option for smooth ride over potholes and flooded or washed out roads.
    MSRP= "How much you got?"

  14. #89

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    Funny you mention load floor height. Minivans have MUCH lower load floor height! Not to mention much better space efficiency. All that space CUVs waste on ground clearance no one's ever going to use, minivans use as useful storage space. No one notices that though.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  15. #90
    FEP Power Member vintageracer's Avatar
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    UGLY will "Trump" Useful EVERY TIME!
    Mike
    Remember, "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts!"

    1995 Ford Powerstroke F350 "Centurion" STRETCHED Crew Cab Dually

    I like "Cut & Coach Built" vehicles!

    www.musclecardeals.com


  16. #91
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default vehicle loading height is a selling point

    Have worked on shipping docks for years. Material handler by trade.
    There is the hard way and the easy way to handle material.
    Load floors are like docks. Can be an advantage or disadvantage if not right.
    Depends on the load.

    Everyone has bought items, then had to figure out how to get them home.
    Fun watching people, at home stores, try to stuff bulky items inside a vehicle.
    Seen one stuff many heavy bags of concrete onto leather back seats.
    The more one hauls items, the better they configure how to do haul correctly.

    Then once home, have to figure out how to get items inside to location. The bigger stuff.
    The washer in basement, fridge, the heavy 7' couch. All the doors and walls to navigate.

    At home, took out 2 windows and retrofitted a sliding patio door. 3' high off patio, no deck, clear access..
    Doubles as a 'house loading dock'.
    Now i can back the Ranger up to it and load/unload big stuff when the time comes.
    Doorwall is very handy area to transfer anything in/out. Straight shot
    Instead of up/down 4 porch steps, then fight the storm door with hands full, especially in the rain.

    Lots of people have back problems or do not want one.
    Reaching to lifting items in and out of a trunk can be a strain on the back and legs.
    Vertical movements, vs horz with a higher flat load floor like a mini whatever.
    More of a slide in-out. more efficient like loading a semi trailer at a dock.
    All that is missing is a little ramp on a shopping cart to bridge to van floor.
    Last edited by gr79; 07-16-2018 at 12:02 PM.

  17. #92
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default June to intro new cars?

    Now Detroit Auto Dealer Assn (DADA) thinks June is the best month to host Detroit North America Auto Sow.
    The pay-to-view international new car event.
    Did not want to compete with other major city auto shows for the spotlight. June was open. Prior month January.
    Timing the show to pile on with Detroit Grand Prix race, 4th of July fireworks on the Detroit River, NASCAR at MIS.

    June- what new cars? Nearing end of current model year run.
    Most buyers already have the new cars. Or are waiting for of end of model year summer clearance deals.

    Most outdoor events have to happen in summer around here because of cold winters.
    Now they will compete with many classic car cruises and shows.

    Tradition for new car intro around here was September for many years.
    Right after annual assy plant summer shutdowns for new model year changeover July-August.
    Fresh new cars. Not new cars sitting in storage lots rusting for months.

  18. #93

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    What's the difference, really? At this rate, Ford probably won't be introducing anything I'm interested in ever again!

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI T-5 (Mustang LWB)
    '17 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

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