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  1. #1
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Default 91 5.0l ho questions

    Hey guys, got a chance to buy a 5.0l out of a 91 gt. I have a 84 5.0l right now that we were going to rebuild but wondering if this is a better way to go? It's got 180000 on it and the guy says it's well maintained. Its fuel injected but wondering if it can be converted easy to carbed and if not how much to switch over to efi? We were going to convert our 84 to roller but this one is a roller already. What's your opinions?

    Thanks
    Last edited by Sask84gt; 04-10-2018 at 09:02 PM.

  2. #2

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    180k miles? How much is he selling it for? I wouldn't pay very much at all for something with that many miles on the original build.

  3. #3
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boboli View Post
    180k miles? How much is he selling it for? I wouldn't pay very much at all for something with that many miles on the original build.
    180000 kilometers and he is selling for 500 Canadian which is around 300 american lol

  4. #4
    FEP Power Member Broncojunkie's Avatar
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    Have you heard it run? If it's still in the car, you can (and should) do a compression test if possible. Personally, I always end up rebuilding them when I don't know the condition. I start by checking out the cylinders and bearings. I always end up replacing the oil pump, timing set, all gaskets, etc. At the point where I realize the whole motor is pretty much coming apart anyway, I just go ahead and bite the bullet lol!

    If the motor is currently in the car and you can drive it and really check it out to see if it smokes or makes any noises you don't like, then you might be good to go. I would still freshen up a few things (oil pump, timing set, gaskets, balancer, and probably a head upgrade...because racecar). If the seller is a good friend of yours, that also helps...provided you keep good friends lol! I have "friends" that I wouldn't buy a gas cap from!

  5. #5
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    You can tell a lot by smoke and blow by and oil pressure variation.

    Got a bore scope? Pull a plug or two and look.

    valve guides will be worn on the heads. Most aren’t past the point of trashing seals by 180 but it could be. My E6SE heads held up until well past 300K miles. I’m within less than 50K of 1/2 million now but it’s a smoker for sure.

    You should check the taper in the cyl but it’s likely fine. Cleaned up pistons and rings back into the same bore is probably fine but you won’t know if you don’t inspect it. I’ve seen guys ball ream a block and put the same stock pistons and rings back in. Personally if I ream it I would get new chrome rings for the factory pistons.

    Fresh bearings on a turned crank or a crank with matching bearings is cheap insurance. If you go that far, may as well have the block tanked and have new cam bearings put in along with freeze plugs. And thread the oil galley plug locations, etc.

    Rings, rod bearings, main bearings, timing set, oil pump, and a gasket set is about the bare minimum if I tear into a motor. It often pays to do cam and lifters and new or rebuilt heads too (and not just valve seals).

    Roller lifters that are shimmed make a huge difference in upper RPM capability. It’s a good mod if you’re using an aftermarket intake. Even better with aftermarket heads, headers, etc. modded lifters are not manditory. Equally interesting results come from jacking up the oil pressure but then keeping your bearing tolerances on the loose side of spec is critical. Just read up on FPS physics at the ring and don’t go beyond the capability of the parts used. 7000 is about the outer limit on a 3” stroke with near stock rotating assembly. Leave a margin of safety.

    Fun making these old pushrod mills not just run like stock but “run” with almost no changes. So much of it is not time working and money doing - it’s the homework to begin with.

  6. #6
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Well, the motor is out of the car already. All I know is that he said it was running strong when he pulled it for a coyote swap. My reasoning for buying it would be to save a bit of money as this is already a roller motor and I was going to spend 600 can on link roller lifters, plus then roller cam for my 84. Thought it might save me a bit of money. Basically RIP off efi throw a new intake on it with stock 4 barrel from my 84 and go. I might add this is just for a 16 year old. Just want to get it going so he ca kn drive it. We do have a 351w that we are going to turn into a beast when he and I are both ready lol
    Last edited by Sask84gt; 04-11-2018 at 07:56 AM.

  7. #7
    FEP Super Member bwguardian's Avatar
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    If the motor hasn't been sitting too long and out of the weather, I say pick it up for that price. If you do be sure and remember your distributor gear will not work with that roller cam. You can either replace the gear on your dizzy or pick up a 1985 dizzy...only year with carb and roller cam...at the local parts store for about $50. Just be sure the gear on the dizzy is correct as there have been others experience not getting the correct unit.
    HAD
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  8. #8
    FEP Power Member Broncojunkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwguardian View Post
    If the motor hasn't been sitting too long and out of the weather, I say pick it up for that price. If you do be sure and remember your distributor gear will not work with that roller cam. You can either replace the gear on your dizzy or pick up a 1985 dizzy...only year with carb and roller cam...at the local parts store for about $50. Just be sure the gear on the dizzy is correct as there have been others experience not getting the correct unit.
    Agreed. I'm one of the people who got one of the 85 distributors with a cast iron gear! The part # on the distributor was correct for a steel gear, but sure enough, it was wrong. Also, explain to the seller that you have no way of knowing what condition that motor is in, so offer him less. I doubt he has people beating his door down to snag his ol 5.0! I just bought a running 351W for $100 and a nice 60k mile non-HO for $100. There are still plenty of them out there, so it's not like you don't have options. Just lowball him and see what happens. You might get it pretty cheap. If we were closer, I'd probably sell you the 351w for less than I paid simply because I'm tired of it being in my way lol!

  9. #9
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwguardian View Post
    If the motor hasn't been sitting too long and out of the weather, I say pick it up for that price. If you do be sure and remember your distributor gear will not work with that roller cam. You can either replace the gear on your dizzy or pick up a 1985 dizzy...only year with carb and roller cam...at the local parts store for about $50. Just be sure the gear on the dizzy is correct as there have been others experience not getting the correct unit.
    How easy is it to get a gear and change it out? Can I buy one brand new from a parts store or do I have to hunt for one out of a 85 gt or other car? Thanks

  10. #10

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    I just did a HO roller cam conversion from a 95 GT to my sons 80 cobra (carbed). I just bought a new 85 mustang distributor from Rock auto rather than mess with the gear.

    It was about $80 CDN shipped in a week with the steel gear. When I did the math the steel gear alone was about 1/2 the price anyway and then you have to deal with the install...not worth the extra $40 in my opinion. There are many options so be careful to get the one that specifies steel gear etc.

  11. #11
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by at_the_junkyard View Post
    I just did a HO roller cam conversion from a 95 GT to my sons 80 cobra (carbed). I just bought a new 85 mustang distributor from Rock auto rather than mess with the gear.

    It was about $80 CDN shipped in a week with the steel gear. When I did the math the steel gear alone was about 1/2 the price anyway and then you have to deal with the install...not worth the extra $40 in my opinion. There are many options so be careful to get the one that specifies steel gear etc.
    https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...stributor,7108
    So something like this?
    Attachment 120170

  12. #12
    FEP Super Member bwguardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sask84gt View Post
    How easy is it to get a gear and change it out? Can I buy one brand new from a parts store or do I have to hunt for one out of a 85 gt or other car? Thanks
    The dizzy out of the 91 roller motor would have the correct gear...so you could just swap the gears.
    HAD
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    '00 F350 two tone (white on silver)...gray cloth
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    '08 Taurus Limited ice blue...tan leather...daughter ride
    '08 Edge Limited white sand tri-coat metallic...tan leather...other daughters ride

  13. #13

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    Yeah, pretty sure I got the CARDONE SELECT 842831

    IIRC the gear off of a 91 distributor (TFI?) has a different ID than the carbed units. I discovered this when I thought I could pull one off of another roller cam motor in a 88 crown vic.

    When I checked swapping the gear (if you have one that fits) you have to get it just right and will probably need a press. Getting the old one off is easy but installing not so much. Cant go wrong with the new distributor IMO.

  14. #14

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    Perhaps others can confirm the gear is different ? Maybe it was only certain models etc.

  15. #15

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    Also the cap style is different between the spectra and cardone.

  16. #16
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by at_the_junkyard View Post
    Also the cap style is different between the spectra and cardone.
    Wonder if either or will work? I agree with the switching gears out. If I can just order a new distributor for 80 bones that's a no brainer. Its just getting the right one. On that page link there are 4or 5 with steel gears.

  17. #17

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    I think either distributor will fit and work. Its just a matter of what kind of cap/plug wires your running. I went with the cardone as it had the same cap as the original etc.

  18. #18
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncojunkie View Post
    Agreed. I'm one of the people who got one of the 85 distributors with a cast iron gear! The part # on the distributor was correct for a steel gear, but sure enough, it was wrong. Also, explain to the seller that you have no way of knowing what condition that motor is in, so offer him less. I doubt he has people beating his door down to snag his ol 5.0! I just bought a running 351W for $100 and a nice 60k mile non-HO for $100. There are still plenty of them out there, so it's not like you don't have options. Just lowball him and see what happens. You might get it pretty cheap. If we were closer, I'd probably sell you the 351w for less than I paid simply because I'm tired of it being in my way lol!
    Lol, I wish I lived down there. I'd have no problem finding stuff. Up here it's a different story. Not as common and people want far more for fox stuff than usual. At least from what I've seen.

  19. #19
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by at_the_junkyard View Post
    I think either distributor will fit and work. Its just a matter of what kind of cap/plug wires your running. I went with the cardone as it had the same cap as the original etc.
    Right on, thanks!

  20. #20
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Update: Went and checkd out the motor last night. Took my brother who knows a lot more than me about this and from what he can tell it's in good shape and well taken care of. Made sure it was not seized and pulled and inspected plugs which looked good. Guy said it was stored inside, runs awesome and that he never had a problem with it. So took a chance and bought it. Son and I are pretty excited so hopefully there isn't any hidden problems that we cant see at the moment.

    Thanks for all your help everyone,This place is awesome!

  21. #21
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by at_the_junkyard View Post
    Yeah, pretty sure I got the CARDONE SELECT 842831

    IIRC the gear off of a 91 distributor (TFI?) has a different ID than the carbed units. I discovered this when I thought I could pull one off of another roller cam motor in a 88 crown vic.

    When I checked swapping the gear (if you have one that fits) you have to get it just right and will probably need a press. Getting the old one off is easy but installing not so much. Cant go wrong with the new distributor IMO.
    I ordered the Cardone Select 842831 distributer yesterday from Rock Auto. Thanks for the advice!

  22. #22

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    Yep it should plug right in to your duraspark system. It has been working great on my sons 1980 cobra with the 95 roller cam. I pulled the distributor after about a 1000 miles to inspect the gear and it looked good.

    One thing I'll mention is that the dist cap and adapter (plastic piece below) that come with the new distributor seem rather cheap. I re-used my old ones off the stock distributor as they fit tighter and better etc. Other than that no issues at all...

    Have fun with your conversion !!

  23. #23
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Thanks! Although I have been thinking and this might sound like a noob question but if Im just taking the 91 302 5.0l stripping the fuel injection off and putting intake, carb on it then putting in in my 84 why would I need to change distributers if the one that is on it is already good for the roller cam thats in it? is it because fuel injection and carb distributers are different?

    What else is going to need to be changed when converting? I read that fuel pump will need to be different. Anything else?

  24. #24

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    Very different. '86+ with EFI uses "TFI" ignition, computer-controlled ignition. No timing advance guts within... is why. DuraSpark II distributors, and points distributors prior to that, contain ignition timing coil-triggering and centrifugal/mechanical advance "curve" components as well as vacuum advance. Have a look at this go-to article for understanding and/or modifying of Ford distributors with centrifugal/mechanical and vacuum advance that I bookmarked many moons ago...

    http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/03/timing/

    I assume the '84 has/had a mechanical fuel pump, and therefore the front timing cover with provision for that? That'd be easiest to do, put the '84's camshaft eccentric for a mechanical fuel pump and timing cover and mechanical fuel pump onto that '91... valve covers with provision for one having a fresh air intake connection and the other a PCV valve...

    I haven't had opportunity yet to truly update what's under the hood of my '86, the installation of a V8 in place of it's tired 3.8L V6, but a couple things within my build thread are right up the alley of what you're wanting to do... and as I mentioned above, you've got a head start more than I had if the car originally has/had a V8 in it and a mechanical fuel pump.
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 05-07-2018 at 09:42 PM.
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  25. #25
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    Very different. '86+ with EFI uses "TFI" ignition, computer-controlled ignition. No timing advance guts within... is why. DuraSpark II distributors, and points distributors prior to that, contain ignition timing coil-triggering and centrifugal/mechanical advance "curve" components as well as vacuum advance. Have a look at this go-to article for understanding and/or modifying of Ford distributors with centrifugal/mechanical and vacuum advance that I bookmarked many moons ago...

    http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/03/timing/

    I assume the '84 has/had a mechanical fuel pump, and therefore the front timing cover with provision for that? That'd be easiest to do, put the '84's camshaft eccentric for a mechanical fuel pump and timing cover and mechanical fuel pump onto that '91... valve covers with provision for one having a fresh air intake connection and the other a PCV valve...

    I haven't had opportunity yet to truly update what's under the hood of my '86, the installation of a V8 in place of it's tired 3.8L V6, but a couple things within my build thread are right up the alley of what you're wanting to do... and as I mentioned above, you've got a head start more than I had if the car originally has/had a V8 in it and a mechanical fuel pump.
    Yup my 84 is a 5.0l gt and I have the motor. So the camshaft eccentric, fuel pump, timing cover and distributor and I'm good to go? Would it be better to purchase aftermarket fuel pump? And if so what would you recommend?

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