1986 5.0 Rebuilt, have spark and fuel pressure, no start

[jdrtexas]

Hello everyone,

I just finished completely rebuilding the 302 in my 1986 SSP (it would run on ether before the rebuild, thought it was a bad fuel pump). I have spark and fuel pressure at the rail, it will run on ether, but will not run otherwise. My timing is in the ballpark, confirmed by pulling #1 plug and taking it to compression (timing mark is right and rotor is at #1 on the cap) I also pulled the SPOUT while trying to get it to run.

While I doing the engine rebuild, I cleaned the fuel injectors 3 months ago with an ultrasonic cleaner and replaced the pintle caps and o-rings. New fuel tank, fuel pump and filter installed as well.

I added an additional ground from the engine to the chassis and will also add another ground to the fuel injection harness. I ordered a new distributor with Motorcraft TFI. Any other ideas?

Thanks
John

[Haystack]

What codes do you get?

[jdrtexas]

Haven't checked for any codes. I guess I'll be buying a code scanner too!

[brianj]

Make sure the injectors are actually firing. If they are, make sure you are not 180 out on the firing order. I was when i first put my motor in the car. Took me a bit of head scratching before I noticed it.

[Haystack]

Use a paperclip.

[Haystack]

https://youtu.be/z0ehA8cFTkc

here's a quick video I did of pulling codes with a paperclip and you can use a voltmeter or a test light

[jdrtexas]

I'm pretty sure I'm not 180 out. It will run as long as I have a friend spraying ether in the throttle body! I also ordered a noid light to check the injector firing.

Thanks for the video on checking the codes, gonna give that a shot tomorrow.

Thanks

[KevinVarnes]

What is the fuel pressure at the rail?

[jdrtexas]

I did not get a gauge on it, but when I pressed down on the schrader valve to make sure there was gas in the rail, it sprayed gas with some very good pressure.

[KevinVarnes]

In addition to the noid light check I would see if you can get an actual fuel pressure reading. Their might be fuel at the rail, but insufficient pressure. I cannot remember what the Ford injectors require. If you take the vacuum hose off of the fuel pressure regulator is there any fuel inside?

It looks like O'Reilly and AutoZone rent out fuel pressure gauges.

[ashley roachclip]

I belive the injectors , get signal from the distributor signal .
May be wrong tho.

[jdrtexas]

From what I have found, the distributor has the sensor (hall effect I believe) that sends the signal to the injectors. Its starting to look like the issue I thought was the fuel pump before the rebuild could have been the distributor. It would only run on ether before the rebuild and again after the rebuild.

I will check the pressure regulator for fuel.

Thanks

[Haystack]

Now, go to Google, type in "sbftech efi no start". 10-20 minutes later, you will pretty much know exactly what's wrong and not waste anymore time or money.

You do not need a "noid light". A volt meter or a test light will do. I actually use an extra tail light but that I soldered a wire onto.

All you do is verify that you have power at the injector, then look for a flashing light. If the light doesn't flash or flashes intermittently, it could be the pip or tfi module, but it could also be a bad ground or a plug you might have forgotten to plug in.

One reason I say to pull codes, I had a car randomly die on me. Turns out the new tps sensor I swapped in wasn't all the way in the connector. Pulling codes told me bad tps so I looked over and saw it was sitting funny.

[erratic50]

If you have a spare map, now is when to try it. I’ve had them go bad while sitting and show no codes but the car wouldn’t run..... swapped in another map and away it went.

[jdrtexas]

Thanks for the great info guys, I appreciate it all. I will check the codes and follow the trail from there.

Thanks again

[erratic50]

If the map goes, 7/10 times it won’t show any codes. A least that’s my experience. The car will make the right noises cranking and act like it wants to run but it won’t fire and it won’t run.

just warning you.... I’ve had this happen to me at random 5 times in 25 years on my 1986 and multiple times on my wife’s 89 and multiple times on my 89 crown Vic. Literally only 3 out of 10 times that the map was out showeded map codes.

[jdrtexas]

Good to know, I'll see if I can't pick up an extra MAP just in case.

Thanks!

[Haystack]

Any map sensor will work. The only one I've actually had die on me, was the oem one with about 320k miles on it. To troubleshoot it, all you need is a volt meter.

I verified it was bad by swapping one off my dads 1992 e-250 van with a 460. They are generic.

[jdrtexas]

Good to know. I just picked up a spare....just in case!

Thanks

[jdrtexas]

OK, now my head really hurts....so far I have replaced, the battery, plug wires, fuel tank, fuel pump, coil, distributor, TFI and added extra ground straps. Engine will not run on gas, it will run on ether. I checked the salt and pepper shakers, no bent pins and added some dielectric grease to the pins. I checked the codes, there are none....and it looks like the computer is not communicating with the code scanner. I checked the computer grounds and they are in good condition. The scanner shows it is connecting to the computer, but no codes, not even the 11 Pass code KOEO. When I disconnect and then re-connect the computer ground at the battery, I can hear clicking, like the computer is opening the various electrical connections to start.

Going to try another computer to eliminate that....any other suggestions?

Thanks!

[KevinVarnes]

I still think you need to verify your fuel system at the rail including actually measuring the fuel pressure and checking to see if the injectors are receiving a signal to fire. You can rent a fuel pressure gauge and noid lights (or wire to a test light as noted above) from O'Reilly for free.

[Haystack]

You could try running the no start procedure I told you about earlier.

[jdrtexas]

Update on the computer, my scanner was not grounded correctly. Once I was able to ground the scanner, the computer ran through it's internal check and could hear all the clicks. The computer gave no codes and passed the internal test. I even checked with the transmission in gear (5 speed) and it gave the 67 code for the neutral safety switch in the transmission, so I'm fairly confident the issue is not the computer.....

I've got 38 pounds of fuel pressure, will be checking the injectors next.

[jdrtexas]

Update on the update, I checked the injector harness for #1 and #5 injectors with a light, both are pulsing.

Would a bad MAP sensor cause this somehow?

[brianj]

How did you check for spark? Are the plugs wet with fuel?