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  1. #101
    FEP Power Member Jerry peachuer's Avatar
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    Great talent and disecting well done

  2. #102
    New User frisbee6291's Avatar
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    Default check out this article

    check out this article

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  3. #103
    New User frisbee6291's Avatar
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    I had the carb on my 84 GT worked up at that place after reading this article.

  4. #104

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    I used to be a fan of magazine articles, back when they taught ya something, how to do things, save money, etc... then later I began to see less and less of that, and realized and saw more and more of that when it says SOURCES, it should say SPONSORS. Probably all I should say about that and the above article. Apparently 'Pony Carburetors' (RIP to the owner who's name I can't recall right now) had a good recipe for smartening up 4180's... but details are shared nowhere...

    Cool, and the results of your worked up carburetor were...?
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  5. #105

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    Nothing too much to update on the carburetor right now... haven't had time... spring rush... an item of interest just finished up is a '65 289 Mustang's original Autolite 4100 4-barrel (a version of which Summit Racing calls theirs now) rebuild. For a short while today, I continued to get a secondary metering block ready for the E5Z 4180
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 10-01-2019 at 04:39 AM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  6. #106
    New User frisbee6291's Avatar
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    Hey Walking Tall . The car ran incredible after that . My plan is to try and get that car back on the road after sitting for a mere 20 years. I also have 4 or 5 other magazine with articles about tuning a 4180 . Let me know if You want me to scan and put on here .

  7. #107

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    Nice. Up to you, the articles might be helpful to somebody. Information is the name of the game of this thread.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  8. #108

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    Got in a 1984 Mustang (GT-350) E4ZE 4180 to go through today. Pretty original, kinda crunchy dirty, seized secondaries, etc., etc....

    When I order a kit and stuff for it, I will order what's needed for our E5ZE we've been working on throughout this thread
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  9. #109

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    Sincere apologies to anybody who has been witnessing the loud and unmistakable sound of crickets in this thread. Atlantic Nationals is here this week/weekend, and I am up nearly past my eyeballs with carburetor work right now. Hopefully in a week or so things will slow down a bit and I can get back at our 4180. I am very much looking forward to it being put to the test to see how she works... stick around...
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  10. #110

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    Iím sticking around lol

  11. #111

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    Love the write up. Will get started on mine while I wait for more.

  12. #112

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    WT, what size cup plugs did you use?

  13. #113

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    The cup plugs in the 4180's primary metering block are 5/16", as opposed to the regular traditional 1/4" Holley metering block idle/main well cup plugs... and as a matter of fact, I haven't sourced any 5/16" cup plugs yet...

    I know it seems ridiculous, but I simply have not had time to resume working with the '85 4180 that's here. I will, I promise, and we will put it to the test...
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 10-01-2019 at 04:45 AM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  14. #114

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    Pardon the repetition, but I believe the following is useful to be posted in numerous places...

    A shamefully ridiculous example of why I tell folks in regard to Holley carburetors, "if you want a good one, get an old one":


    Posted at racingfuelsystems forum, entitled "Brand New Blunder #??? - A Heads Up..."

    "So a local (repeat client) fellow contacted me asking if I could fine tune his brand new spread bore vacuum secondary... that with a few miles of driving his '77 Malibu he found that it would hesitate upon light part throttle "tip in"...

    Observation #1 was a throttle lever bent over toward the main body badly, so badly that it was bent all the way down to the throttle shaft area and loose on the throttle shaft, obviously dropped before it went into the box, and bumping into the driver's side secondary link lever at wide open throttle as well... and a secondary stop bracket not allowing full wide open of the secondary throttle plates... idle screw backed out, fully shut primary throttle plates, he said still idled way too fast, primary lever and idle screw tip not even inline with each other (primary throttle shaft not fully installed/seated laterally originally), and quite open secondary throttle blades...

    Observation #2 was small appearing primary idle air bleeds, and large idle mixture passages and blunt-tipped idle mixture screws... so I told him it is a "reverse-idle" unit, and it'll have passage holes into the primary bores, blah blah blah how "reverse-idle" works etc... I don't remember where now, but online somewhere that sells these states that the 80555-1 4175 650 spread bore vacuum secondary has a "forward" idle circuit... I presume as opposed to "reverse"?... hmmm, okay...

    Observation #3 was NO holes/passages into the primary bores for "reverse-idle"... so, in a nutshell, it has standard idle main body and base plate, and a "reverse-idle" primary metering block and mixture screws... at first I got him back here and showed him all of their "quality control" and "attention to detail", and thought completing "reverse-idle" would be the best course of action to make it behave... but after some more thought about it, I decided against that, because it would mean blocking the large standard idle discharge holes in the base plate, drilling new small ??? size constant idle feed holes below the primary transfer slots, and drilling ??? size passage holes into the main body... so instead I drilled the idle mixture screw passages in the PMB with a #29 drill, tapped 8-32 thread on through the passage, and installed 8-32x1/8" brass socket set screws with 1/16" holes in them, so that regular sharp tip idle mixture screws can be used...

    Observation #4 was air bleed sizes crazy in contrast to the handful of these (other, older, LIST-7002 etc.) that I have dealt with before, as well as somewhat larger than usual primary idle feed restrictions at 0.029"... and #64 primary jets where #62's are supposed to be according to documentation...

    Here are it's original calibration details as I found/measured:
    - 0.029" PIFR's (?) & 0.035" SIFR's (#54 SMP - specs not listed anywhere btw)
    - 0.053" PIAB's (?) & 0.051" SIAB's (?)
    - 0.036" PMAB's & 0.040" SMAB's (?!)
    - #64 PMJ's (?) & 0.081" secondary main circuit holes (#54 SMP - specs not listed anywhere btw)
    - 0.057" PVCR's
    - 0.040" pump shooter (?!) and orange pump cam in position 2

    So I remedied the metering block like explained above, loosened throttle blade screws and shuffled shafts and blades around so they were correct, got out the brass and drills and created 6-32x1/8" 0.026" PIFR's (very mild stock replacement camshaft in rebuilt 350) and installed those in the block, installed #62 PMJ's, drilled and tapped and installed 10-32x3/16" 0.070" PIAB's, 6-32x1/8" (the secondary constant idle feed holes seemed a bit big at about 0.030", so I chose to create) 0.040" SIAB's and 6-32x1/8" 0.026" SMAB's, and installed new regular idle mixture screws and the orange pump cam in position 1... not having any "anti-pullover" shooters of other/smaller sizes on hand, the rather large 0.040" remains in it...

    A couple hours after picking it up, he was back at the door, beaming and grinning, telling me to come check out my handy work. He brought the car, and it was idling in the driveway slowly and nice and smooth, and he said it's working night and day real nice, and making far more sense setting idle speed and mixture... and when he left here, it launched real good, barking out the exhaust, lifting the nose of the car some and was off down the street, lol!

    Thought I'd share this with you guys who may end up dealing with one of these further enhanced (translation: EFFED UP) versions of the "new and improved" that come brand spankin' new outta that place and cost this fellow 750 smackers... for what? Nearly complete re-calibration necessary so that it will just FUNCTION correctly... pardon my french, but the pompous jackasses who apparently know-it-all really should be knocked down a few notches somehow... I wish..."

    So yeah, the moral of the story... stop buying expensive new garbage from giant monopolizing corporations, because contrary to their marketing and such, they do not know WTF they are talking about or doing there at all anymore.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  15. #115

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    Thankfully there are still some people out there who use their heads for more than just to separate their ears. Good for you, my somewhat distant Canadian neighbor, Nick! Check out the low mile '83 convertible GT, that wasn't idling so well, that had been to numerous "mechanics" prior to that problem being SOLVED... been there, wearing the t-shirt, lol...





    As well, our sleeping 4180 will be reappearing here soon, to finish up the the solutions to a handful of additional reasons we found why 4180's don't really work so well... stay tuned...
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  16. #116
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    Mike, is there any more mods that will be done to this project beyond what you have here? I ask because I have started to strip down my 83 carb to do these mods as well. I have the metering block completely pulled apart and ready for the mods. I did manage to get the brass restricter tubes out of the idle wells. You mention you had to drill yours out and wasn't able to get the I.D. of them. I was doing the same and they started to spin. I wasn't able to drill all the way through them and was able to pull them out. I measured the tips down by the idle restricters, and I can get a .060 inch drill into the very tip. It then appears that the tubes have a small pinch in them about .060 inch up from the tip, and goes for about .125 inches long. This pinch only goes half way around them. I could get a .056 inch drill through the restriction though. I can try to get a pic for you if need be. I will post progress pics in my build topic as I go.

  17. #117

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    I don't believe so, Don, no. Just assembly (will get off my a$$ finally shortly and order it's needed parts and gaskets)... and then long overdue sent down to Jim for dyno testing on a stock engine... if he's still up for that... otherwise, I'll throw it on my jalopy and give 'er a go... it may or may not need different primary main jetting due to the modifications and the annular boosters...

    If you mean the brass tubes that go upward into the carburetor main body passages that lead to the base plate primary idle/transition passages... The tubes you're talking about are the equivalent to what we install as TSR's (transfer slot restrictions) in 4150/4160 Holley carburetors, or especially the clone carburetors like QFT's. In regular Holley's it's done to counter the gas-guzzling behavior of a very radical camshaft in a combination, like where there's say about 6"Hg of idle intake manifold vacuum, and roughly up to triple of that vacuum at cruise. In the clones or other, with their way too wide and/or long transfer slots, is where some pinching of the transition air:fuel is necessary so they are no longer pigs on gas.

    My feelings weren't hurt at all that the tubes in this one got destroyed, because besides the conditions above, there's no pinching of the transition (also idle mix) air:fuel necessary, because the 4180 has good width/length primary transfer slots.

    If you mean the "idle down channel restrictors" in the metering block... in my opinion, they're moot too... all that's really needed for a correctly functioning idle/transition circuit are the submerged idle feed restrictions and idle air bleeds, and mixture screws for idle adjustment...

    Good luck with it, and yes, keep us up to date with how you're doing
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  18. #118
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    Default IFR's question

    The tubes I mentioned were in the metering block. The "idle down channel restrictors".
    I will be ordering the brass set screws and some brass screws to put the throttle plates back in as well as the choke plate. I will be stripping down the finish and zinc plating and re chromate the whole thing except the base plate. I will also be aqua blasting everything to get that new finish look again. I need to get some fresh taps and the correct drills to match them as well. I'll be posting pics in my build page soon. Thanks for the input Mike.

    I did not see any mention about the IFR's behind the main jets being modified. Did you drill out the stock IFR's, and to what size? Are these IFR's now in the idle fuel well passage? The ones you show being put up in from the bottom.
    Thanks for the great info.
    Last edited by dynodon64; 05-11-2020 at 07:14 PM. Reason: add more text

  19. #119

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    That's going to look awesome refinished like that!

    The IFR's behind the main jets in this one were simply removed, drilled out... I just do not have drill bits or taps long enough to bother with the ridiculous angle and reach necessary to keep them behind the jets... so yes, I added (I'll go back and state the post #) primary IFR's right up into the primary idle wells... not the best of solutions but are located where needed and will work fine... size of these are 0.026", which is a very good default baseline size for 1-9/16" throttle bores and with a stock/mild camshaft...

    Please see post numbers 80 and 81 for PIFR's (primary idle feed restrictions) locations...
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 05-11-2020 at 09:59 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  20. #120
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    Thanks again Mike. That's what I figured you did. I will be doing the same. I need to put an order in for the brass set screws from McMaster-Carr. They come in 50-100 pieces per size. $3-$4 each size. Cheap enough. They are cup point as you suggested. I'll keep you posted.

  21. #121
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    Mike, when you cleaned up the throttle shafts, what did you use to make them black again? Paint? I was thinking about cold gun blueing dye. I have mine stripped clean and will re-plate the linkage with zinc and yellow chromate.

  22. #122

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    That 83 ragtop is a very nice car.

    Commenting among friends here rather than on youtube...... I will say that I found their video a bit annoying. I wanted to see how it ran before and after and what they did and none of the other nonsense. Only got the diagnosis process for the initial problem and the answer and did not get to see the initial problem. Also we never heard the engine rev up off choke in the 15 minutes I watched.

    So my comment in general is that it really seems like there are a lot of videos out there these days that go on and on and never really do get to the part that is the focus -- the actual point. I have to wonder what's so hard about it, but hey if common sense were all that common it would just be called sense.

    I didn't bother to comment on youtube because I really don't care for that forum and broad non-friendly feedback, etc.

    Can't wait to see the end results of the mods you're making.

  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodon64 View Post
    Mike, when you cleaned up the throttle shafts, what did you use to make them black again? Paint? I was thinking about cold gun blueing dye. I have mine stripped clean and will re-plate the linkage with zinc and yellow chromate.
    Yes, a thin layer of engine enamel.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  24. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    That 83 ragtop is a very nice car.

    Commenting among friends here rather than on youtube...... I will say that I found their video a bit annoying. I wanted to see how it ran before and after and what they did and none of the other nonsense. Only got the diagnosis process for the initial problem and the answer and did not get to see the initial problem. Also we never heard the engine rev up off choke in the 15 minutes I watched.

    So my comment in general is that it really seems like there are a lot of videos out there these days that go on and on and never really do get to the part that is the focus -- the actual point. I have to wonder what's so hard about it, but hey if common sense were all that common it would just be called sense.

    I didn't bother to comment on youtube because I really don't care for that forum and broad non-friendly feedback, etc.

    Can't wait to see the end results of the mods you're making.
    Agreed. What I recall most about the video still is that the fast idle, pretty much all we witnessed of it running, seemed too fast, like 2000rpm or so... I would have lowered that to about 1500rpm... and shown how the ability to adjust idle mixture must have improved the car's idle quality...

    The current nonsense that is going on is REALLY putting a damper on ordered things arriving here in about the week or so things took previously, to two weeks + now... not so funny when juggling 4 or 5 builds at a time...
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 05-22-2020 at 08:03 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

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