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  1. #1

    Default Which vehicles had E7 heads?

    I am sure this has been discussed before but I wanted to ask. Currently looking around the junkyards for a roller motor I can pull.

    Am I correct in saying that in general the E7 heads were only used on 5.0 HO motors (and some trucks) with the non-HO roller motors from non-mustangs etc usually having the E6 heads ?

    And also in general the non-HO roller motors had cast pistons vs forged...but the blocks, crank, and rods were essentially the same ?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2

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    Correct on all counts. Except roller blocks went into the H.O. first and trickled onto the S.O. later, even if the S.O. still had non-roller cam.
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  3. #3

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    OK thanks for the verification.

    Do you know what the main differences were in the E6 vs E7 head ?

    Were the 86 mustang HO "high swirl" heads different than the E6's that were put on the non-HO motors etc ?

  4. #4
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Default

    Afaik, same casting. Bump and all.


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    -- James

    Favorite thing I’ve said that’s been requoted: “"40 year old beercan on wheels with too much motor"

    My four eyed foxes:
    "Trigger" - 86 Mustang GT - Black with red interior. 5.0 T5 built as Z. Original motor ~1/2 million miles. 18 yr daily, 10 a toy
    "Silver" - 85 Mustang Saleen 1985-006? (Lol) Rare 1E silver GT / charcoal interior. The car is a little bit of a mystery. Current project bought as a roller, tons of Saleen / Racecraft pedigree

    Also in the stable - my son’s car. 1986 Mustang GT Convertible. Black/Black/Black conversion. 93 leather. VM1 ECU. T5Z

    past foxes -
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  5. #5

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    The flat top 86 and 86-91 or so s.o. pistons are the same. They are forged. All 85 up blocks should be roller compatible, seen an 85 with a flat tapet but I've seen another s.o. motor with a hydraulic roller. I've had two 86 s.o. motors torn down and they all had dogbones in them as well as every 87 up ive messed with. Trucks are an exception. The e7's also started out in the ford trucks and were used on almost every truck 302-351 from 87 up. They were also used in 91-93 tbirds/cougar along with a less agressive h.o. cam later used in the 93 up cobra.

    The s.o. pistons are also slightly taller and have more compression then the later blocks, but I doubt its even half a point.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  6. #6

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    Thanks for all the info !!

    Gives me a better idea what to look for. I'm in no hurry for this project...just have to find something that doesn't look totally abused.

  7. #7

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    Not sure if there were different E6SE heads, and if there were which ones were used on which engines. You would have to look at the engineering suffix on the heads on different 1986 H.O. and S.O. engines. I do know that S.O. engines continued using E6SE heads after 1986 while H.O. used them only in 1986. Not sure if trucks used them at all. They may have continued using E5TE heads for one more year until they went with E7TE heads in 1987.
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  8. #8

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    I used an HO motor out of a 87 LSC for a while and thought that it was weird that it used different spark plugs than a 87 Stang, I thought it had E7 heads. Ended up pulling the motor a couple of years later for a swap and found that it had E6 heads on it, even though it was a roller block.

  9. #9

    Default

    LSC did not get H.O. engine until 1988. Only 1987+ H.O. passenger car engines got E7TE heads.

    E7TE heads were on the following Windsor family engines...

    1987-95 Mustang (exc. SVT Cobra)
    1987-?? E-series (van)
    1987-?? F-series (truck)
    1988-92 Mark VII
    1991-93 Cougar
    1991-93 Thunderbird
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  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EXPOfoo85LTD_LX View Post
    I used an HO motor out of a 87 LSC for a while and thought that it was weird that it used different spark plugs than a 87 Stang, I thought it had E7 heads. Ended up pulling the motor a couple of years later for a swap and found that it had E6 heads on it, even though it was a roller block.
    That's because the mark 7 had a 150hp base motor (s.o. 302) a 200hp h.o. motor from 86-87 (same as the 86 gt) and then the actual high output (225hp) from 1988 on.

    The h.o. or s.o. has nothing to do with roller or non roller. Around 1985-86 blocks are all roller except for trucks. Standard out put or high output.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  11. #11

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    THAT’s why my LTD wasn’t as powerful as I thought it should be...


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  12. #12

    Default

    http://thelincolnmarkviiclub.org/doc...ngineCodes.pdf

    Mark VII engine codes...

    1984 = F
    1985 = F, M
    1986 = F, M
    1987 = F, M
    1988 = E
    1989 = E
    1990 = E
    1991 = E
    1992 = E

    F = 140 HP (1984-85) or 150 HP (1986-87)
    M = 180 HP (1985) or 200 HP (1986-87)
    E = 225 HP (H.O.)
    Last edited by FoxChassis; 02-09-2018 at 03:52 PM.
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  13. #13

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    Still had the h.o. cam, just had a smaller throttle body and intake. E6 heads aren't great, but id bet they are within 5 hp of e7's in stock trim.

    Its stupid easy to convert a s.o. to a h.o. motor in a weekend.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  14. #14
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Default

    E6 head HOs respond to intake, throttlebody, and headers every bit as much as E7. The bump adds low end and mid torque but costs you around 5 CFM. the intakes are a restrictive pig so heads do not matter much until that is fixed.

    front and rear runners flow 110, the rest around 130. Very restrictive!

    86 throttle body is 58MM, 87-93 is 60 but the 89+ MAF is 58MM with a MAF sensor in the way..... so 86 breathes better than 89-93 but not quite as well as 87-88. But a VM1 SD ECU found only on 86 is more aggressive than DS1 on 87-88. End result is an 86 that's turned up will stomp a stock 87+ also turned up but stock.

    65MM throttle body and headers allows an E6 head motor to rev willingly to ~5500. Explorer intakes ported help but runner length causes them to stop st 5800. With a Typhoon EFI or other decent intake and a very mild cam or 1.7:1 rockers you can get past 6000.

    You have to go past 6000 for E7's to matter much if the other parts there are up to their task.

    E6 are high swirl and do not like as much timing advance though.

    personally I'd go twisted wedge heads and not worry about 86 vs 87+ as long as the slugs are forged.

  15. #15

    Default

    Anyone know what the cc's were on the standard output E6 heads ?

    I am assuming they are somewhat less than the 69cc D8 head...

  16. #16

    Default

    NHRA lists the following if they are checking things:

    - D 8 O E @ 67.5cc chambers
    - E 6 S E @ 62.0cc chambers
    - E 7 T E @ 60.6cc chambers
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  17. #17

    Default

    The e6 heads and pistons are slightly higher compression (less then half a point if I remember right)

    If you are just doing a junkyard build, get an explorer block then swap in the few h.o. parts its missing. You'll need timing chain cover, dizzy and engine brackets if you want to run all standard stang stuff. Most of these things can be had cheap new or used. Stang guys throw em away sometimes. With a h.o. cam and the stock explorer intake, I've seen them dyno anywhere from 250-285 rwhp.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  18. #18

    Default

    OK interesting. Thanks all for the info !!

    Right now I'm trying to piece together some engine stuff and just trying to get a handle on all the possible combos etc. My son is taking more of an interest in these things lately and I have never rebuilt an engine completely from the ground up...and kinda want to give one a try without spending too much on parts etc....sort of reliving my high school days...haha

    I have accumulated some parts already and have a set of D8 heads that were removed from a known good running stock engine. Looks to me like an E6 in good condition may still be a bit of an upgrade over the D8's with the compression increase from the smaller chambers.

    Junkyard E6's are fairly plentiful, E7's and HO motors not so much but things show up from time to time. Ideally I find an explorer with Gt40's. There are lots of them around but all of them usually 4.0's

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haystack View Post
    The e6 heads and pistons are slightly higher compression (less then half a point if I remember right)

    If you are just doing a junkyard build, get an explorer block then swap in the few h.o. parts its missing. You'll need timing chain cover, dizzy and engine brackets if you want to run all standard stang stuff. Most of these things can be had cheap new or used. Stang guys throw em away sometimes. With a h.o. cam and the stock explorer intake, I've seen them dyno anywhere from 250-285 rwhp.
    This is essentially what I have right now. It is actually a 1990 MY HO motor I swapped to GT40P heads and intake. I believe the cam is stock HO (I'm not sure, I got it used and abused with 150K miles). I was watching a Motor Week about the '93 Cobra the other day and they mentioned the GT40 engine is down on torque vs. the HO. Anyone have any thoughts on that? I'm a fan of torque. Throw you in the back of your seat, immediate power. Top end doesn't interest me as much. I had never heard the thing about the Cobra being down on torque vs. the GT until the other day. I was just following the siren song of "more power".

    With the post above about higher revving, what's the advantage of that? What does 6000 rpm get you that 5500 doesn't? I'm not a race driver, and I've never built an engine, so I'm not very well versed in this kind of thing. I just want to be able to drive my Zeph with my head high and not get my ass handed to me by every V6 Camry.

    This is a good discussion. I was never sure about a lot of this, which engines were roller cam and which ones had what heads.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  20. #20

    Default

    Ford went to a new system for rating horsepower and torque in 1993. The 5.0 HO was rated at 205 hp and 275 tq that year. The Mustang Cobra was rated at 235 hp and 280 tq. Besides that it's generally accepted that the Cobra's power was underrated. The Cobra does make more torque than the HO it's just at a higher rpm. 4000 instead of 3000 rpm.
    Matt
    1984 Thunderbird -- 1989 302 HO, GT40 heads w/ Trick Flow springs, E303 cam, Edelbrock Performer 289 intake, Edelbrock 600 4bbl, 85 Mustang dizzy, Jegs o/r h pipe, Dynomax mufflers, Mustang AOD & shifter, Mustang 8.8 w/ 3.73s, Mustang front & rear sway bars, KYB 87-88 TC struts & shocks, and Mustang 11" front brakes.

    1988 Mustang GT hatch -- Explorer intake, GT40 heads with Trick Flow spring kit, Crane 1.7 rrs, E303 cam, 70mm MAF, 70mm throttle body, o/r H pipe, Dynomax mufflers, Kirban Kwik shifter w/ Pro 5.0 Deluxe handle, clutch quadrant & firewall adjuster, and 3.27s
    (86 Mercury Cougar 5.0, 89 Lincoln Mark VII LSC 5 speed, 80 Mercury Zephyr 4 door) sold

  21. #21

    Default

    The 93 cobra used a lower lift camshaft with a completely different setup. It also used factory ford crane supplied 1.7 ratio roller rockers compared to a regular engine. That's why the rating is different. They actually used the same cam without the 1.7 ratio rockers as a lower lift better idling camshaft in the 91-93 h.o. tbirds. Supposedly to limit vibration and harshness.

    Higher rpm hp is almost always better. Think about it this way, would you rather be punched in the face with 250hp 4,000 times, or 250 hp 5,000 times. That's why a 250hp car at 5,000 rpm is faster even though they are both 250hp. Torque is great, but we are talking a 5.0 liter v-8. The torque number is respectable compared to most modern non v-8 powered cars.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  22. #22

    Default

    0.282" lobe lift is not lower lift than others. Not hardly different at all, and not that it means much with any of these mediocre factory turds, but that's the tallest lobe of the factory hydraulic roller cams...



    ... if anybody actually measured, I wonder if the corporation even gave hard earned money spending folks the extra 0.004" of lobe lift... LOL!!!
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  23. #23

    Default

    That's actually really interesting. It actually said in ford sales brochures that it is a low lift cam for less noise vibration and harshness. You can see it spelled out several times in ford literature and a few magazine articles. It does say it is revised for slightly less power but more torque, interestingly enough.

    Supposedly the regular old h.o. cam was upgraded little by little to improve gas mileage and smoothness, although I've never seen anything to support that.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  24. #24

    Default

    Interesting stuff! Thanks for the feedback!

    It's been suggested I go to a custom grind cam to take full advantage of what I've got. That sound good to you guys? What do you think about going to 1.7 rockers? Can you do that with stock EFI valve covers (I'd like to keep those)?

    Sorry to derail this thread, I just thought this fit here too.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  25. #25

    Default

    I have Trickflow 1.7 and they were too tall even with oil baffle removed, the mounts for the baffle plate would need to be ground down and then possibly thicker or double up on valve cover gaskets would be needed. I decided to get some fairly inexpensive "fabricated aluminum" covers that clear the rockers and fit under the GT40 intake without any spacers and have the correct filler neck with a baffle in it.

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