Close



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26
  1. #1

    Default Fox/Ford Engineer Joins Your Site

    I have posted in the New User section but someone suggested I move to this area- I will try and answer questions on topics I have knowledge about. This site is all new to me and I am very impressed at the large number of users and beautiful cars. It is pleasant to read of your excitement and enthusiasm for the Fox vehicles. I am remembering some of my favorite test prototypes and press shows where we showed off the new cars- the 1978 Fairmont/Zephyr Z7- 1979 Red Mustang V8 4 speed - 1980 WhiteTurbo Mustang - 1980 Red Capri - 1984 Thunderbird - I was assigned to the Light Vehicle Evaluation team for the Fox Program. I still have a favorite picture of me standing next to the 79 Capri on the Ford Test Track. Many of the Ford people were excited about our cars and jobs.
    The Vehicle Development group worked with prototypes about 1 year before production. We would try and improve things like engine response /ride motion and ease of operation. We worked out of the Experimental Garage and the Test Track next door. My job was primarily in Powertrain Evaluation. There was a different group that did engine calibration and Noise/Vibration/Harshness work. Thanks for your warm response to date. Roger
    Last edited by FoxEngr; 01-30-2018 at 09:09 AM. Reason: Realized mistake

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member roush235's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lebanon, TN
    Posts
    2,647

    Default

    Welcome Roger. It will be fun interacting with someone who was "right there."

    Prototypes 1 year before production: How close were the prototypes you were working on to the final, actual models? Were they e.g. hand-built examples using preliminary actual parts, or were they cobbled-together mules based on other models? I can imagine things were different depending on what you were specifically working on. E.g. the 1978 Fairmont was all-new, while other projects might have been a new powertrain in an existing model, where only certain components were being evaluated.
    Bob in Lebanon, TN
    79 original owner six cylinder coupe
    MCA Gold Card judge for 3rd Generation cars

  3. #3
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Greenwood, IN
    Posts
    3,506

    Default

    I have a question as it pertains to painting. I know the answer back then was probably time & cost savings, but curious why some colors were given more attention in the engine bay than others. Red comes to mind as being sprayed on very thin, and in some cases the grey primer was not even covered near the shock towers, while black cars seem to have full coverage.

    Also, why was the hatch not sprayed first before installation of the spoilers...seems this might have been a bit of insurance against the inevitable rust/corrosion that these cars became known for under the hatch. Having had both my 82 GT and 85 GT spoilers off for polishing/detailing work it was surprising to me to find only a thin layer of primer. Just curious if stuff like that was ever debated or if it was just the way of the 80's
    Jason Smith
    MCA #65481

    '82 Capri RS Resto-Mod
    '88 #400 Saleen Coupe "Mean Machine" Legal Guardian
    '93 LX Yellow/Black Summer Feature - 2,800 Mile Original Survivor (Foxtoberfest 2019 Best Original 87-93)
    '05 S-281 Mineral Grey

  4. #4
    FEP Power Member plumkrazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ann Arbor MI
    Posts
    1,591

    Default

    Welcome Roger, Did you ever see the 1985 Detroit GrandPrix Capri cars. Always looking for more photos and info
    1 of 3 1985 Silver Grand Prix Capr's
    My first New car and still own 1986 Capri

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sowaxeman View Post
    I have a question as it pertains to painting. I know the answer back then was probably time & cost savings, but curious why some colors were given more attention in the engine bay than others. Red comes to mind as being sprayed on very thin, and in some cases the grey primer was not even covered near the shock towers, while black cars seem to have full coverage.

    Also, why was the hatch not sprayed first before installation of the spoilers...seems this might have been a bit of insurance against the inevitable rust/corrosion that these cars became known for under the hatch. Having had both my 82 GT and 85 GT spoilers off for polishing/detailing work it was surprising to me to find only a thin layer of primer. Just curious if stuff like that was ever debated or if it was just the way of the 80's
    I never realized that this was the case with all of them lol. Thought it was just mine that had hardly any coverage on the shock towers. Mines Jalapeno red with matte/satin orange shock towers and primer under the spoiler

  6. #6

    Default

    Welcome Roger. Did you ever work with David Domine or recall him. He worked closely with the 2.3 turbos in the early `80's ?
    `82 Mercury Capri 5.0 4.speed / not RS
    `86 Mercury Capri

  7. #7

    Default

    Welcome Roger!
    Matt
    1984 Thunderbird -- 1989 302 HO, GT40 heads w/ Trick Flow springs, E303 cam, Edelbrock Performer 289 intake, Edelbrock 600 4bbl, 85 Mustang dizzy, Jegs o/r h pipe, Dynomax mufflers, Mustang AOD & shifter, Mustang 8.8 w/ 3.73s, Mustang front & rear sway bars, KYB 87-88 TC struts & shocks, and Mustang 11" front brakes.

    1988 Mustang GT hatch -- Explorer intake, GT40 heads with Trick Flow spring kit, Crane 1.7 rrs, E303 cam, 70mm MAF, 70mm throttle body, o/r H pipe, Dynomax mufflers, Kirban Kwik shifter w/ Pro 5.0 Deluxe handle, clutch quadrant & firewall adjuster, and 3.27s
    (86 Mercury Cougar 5.0, 89 Lincoln Mark VII LSC 5 speed, 80 Mercury Zephyr 4 door) sold

  8. #8

    Default

    To answer your questions-We had different kinds of prototypes- if there was an all new car to be used for engine cooling/octane/driveability there was no need to have a full prototype so Ford would graft the new front end sheet metal and grille onto the front of an older car. In cases where the new front end was wider they would look quite strange. One I can picture was a Maverick front end onto a 65 Mustang.
    ---On paint-in the case of a spoiler on the rear hatch-if Ford painted parts like the spoiler off line they would have to have a rack of 20 spoilers on the line to cover all the colors. Rust is a challenge to all of us that preserve an old car, but I think that never did our people imagine they should design and spend the money so a car would not rust and look good after 45 years.
    Cars for durability would have chassis/drivetrain parts correct to prove out thse areas.
    Some of the prototypes would have most of their parts correct- these would be used for sign off, management reviews and press shows.
    This reminds me of a 1980 Mustang Turbo in White that we slaved over for months to get it looking sharp and running great for a press show. The show was at the Romeo proving grounds where a driver could hit high speed through a hilly area. The engineers would ride with the press driver and have to keep quiet if the guy was driving over his/her head. So the worst thing happened and the jerk flipped the car on its roof. Luckily the riders were ok.
    Is this the kind of stuff you want???

  9. #9
    FEP Senior Member dtmilsap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Rose Hill,Kansas
    Posts
    895

    Default

    I love this kind of insight/stories about our cars.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    949

    Default

    Cool having insider info from back in the day. Thanks. I can imagine there must have been some amount of pressure to get the Fox Mustang right after the less than favourable reception the Mustang IIs got.

  11. #11
    FEP Super Member roush235's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lebanon, TN
    Posts
    2,647

    Default

    This is exactly the type of info which is very interesting to me.

    You mentioned driveability..... exactly what types of issues did you work on? Can you recall a particular problem you tackled and solved?
    Bob in Lebanon, TN
    79 original owner six cylinder coupe
    MCA Gold Card judge for 3rd Generation cars

  12. #12
    FEP Super Member roush235's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lebanon, TN
    Posts
    2,647

    Default

    You made an interesting point about paint/rust "planning." I'd say Fox Body cars had improved rust prevention compared to 50's-early 70's cars, but certainly not as good as today. Making them better in this area was probably do-able, but not at the price point for the cars. After all, Fox Body cars were by and large low-priced cars for the masses. And as you noted, you and your colleagues never imagined we would be loving on these cars nearly 40 years later.
    Bob in Lebanon, TN
    79 original owner six cylinder coupe
    MCA Gold Card judge for 3rd Generation cars

  13. #13
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Greenwood, IN
    Posts
    3,506

    Default

    My favorite part of the paint response, and a great point: "never did our people imagine they should design and spend the money so a car would not rust and look good after 45 years."
    Jason Smith
    MCA #65481

    '82 Capri RS Resto-Mod
    '88 #400 Saleen Coupe "Mean Machine" Legal Guardian
    '93 LX Yellow/Black Summer Feature - 2,800 Mile Original Survivor (Foxtoberfest 2019 Best Original 87-93)
    '05 S-281 Mineral Grey

  14. #14

    Default

    I was asked what driveability problem did I solve(work on). We were quite challenged by the emission requirements as early as 1969- compression ratio reduction and exhaust gas recirculation. Making the engine run smoothly -pass emission tests and get good fuel economy all kept us busy. My group spent long hours on tip in clunk in the early 80's-before more sophisticated computer strategies became available. I was also involved in axle noise tuning and even basic work on trans shift mechanisms . Our job in development was to improve on items the designers made.
    For example-the 1980 Turbo Mustang was released with the small hummer man trans made in Germany. Testing showed that a 5000RPM drag start would destruct the trans. So in a matter of weeks we had to find a new trans and test it. We were shocked that such a late change was coming. The SR4 Borg Warner trans made the cut and proved a more durable choice. Exhaust tuning on the 4 cyl turbo was also a challenge- all they kept saying is makeit sound like a V8. One more trans item-in about 1981 Product Planning said their studies showed that Mustang buyers prefer auto trans so NO manual transmissions will be released. Car people knew this was ridiculous and we eventually turned this around.

  15. #15
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Raymond, New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,896
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Interesting - I can tell you I am plagued with a harmonic type vibration with my t5, 8.8 rear 3:73 geared car. Any tips to reducing this highly annoying problem short of installing an aluminum driveshaft would be appreciated!
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  16. #16

    Default

    It may help to understand the problem to see if it remains when you switch to another gear. Also -describe the problem-is it a noise and vibration? Is it car speed sensitive or engine RPM sensitive? Does it change on accel and or decel? Is it Is it worse on a very smooth road.
    Try adding the weight of 1 or 2 nickels to the back of the driveshaft in 90 degree positions before you buy a new driveshaft. A hose clamp helps do this.
    Good luck

  17. #17
    FEP Senior Member burntorange84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    GT (georgetown), TX
    Posts
    740

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brianj View Post
    Interesting - I can tell you I am plagued with a harmonic type vibration with my t5, 8.8 rear 3:73 geared car. Any tips to reducing this highly annoying problem short of installing an aluminum driveshaft would be appreciated!
    Brian,
    My stock and original 84 had a bad rear vib around 73-75 mph. I tested it, removed the wheels, then the drums and spun it in the air each time. It was still there so I knew it was somewhere in the assembly. Finally remove the DS and took it to a driveshaft shop. The drive shaft was out of balance from the factory. Hey the speed limit was 55 back then. The shop used less weights . It is super smooth now.

    Roger,

    Glad you are on here. I presume you will get tons of questions; don't worry, the site and members are awesome compared to almost any other car group I've been on. I kept waiting for the day when a Fox Engineer would join the site. You can now start a memoir thread,

    Do you have a Four eyed fox?

    I'd love to hear about the 84-85 piston problems that delayed the roller 5.0 from making it into the Anny & 84.5 models.

    -j
    _________________________________________
    1984.5 Mustang GT: org. 5.0, 5spd, 3.27's;
    GT-40's w/93 exhaust; t-bird TC brakes....

  18. #18
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    5,141

    Default mystery parts

    The quest is finding certain parts to replace worn out or for maintenance.
    Many were unique to each model year.
    Was a long run for the chassis and has interchangeability.
    Some common parts may never be offered as new replacement.
    Time will tell how far the aftermarket industry will go and when.
    Early muscle cars have quite a following and parts availability.
    Stricter govt emissions changes dropped values and desirability then and now.
    Last edited by gr79; 02-12-2018 at 02:40 AM.

  19. #19
    FEP Power Member SchoolBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Arlington Washington
    Posts
    2,220

    Default

    Roger, I'm curious if you did any work on the svo program?
    If you blink at the end of the straight away you'll miss the twisties and what fun would that be!
    1982 Capri RS 5.0L
    Suspension Build http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...tion-and-Build
    1985 SVO 2A & leather. Stolen & Destroyed 2022
    Motor Build http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=63505
    Dyno stats and exhaust install http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...Dyno-d-finally
    My FMIC build http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-amp-D-project
    Electronic boost controller and bypass valve
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...d-Bypass-Valve
    Opperation SVO Tunes http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...51#post1148551

  20. #20

    Default

    Hello- To answer some questions-
    I did have a 79 Fairmont Futura and a 1983 Thunderbird- both were great cars. My group in Light vehicle Development worked on the the high volume cars and did minor work on the SVO. The biggest challenge we had on the Fairmont platform was a vibration/boom from the driveline. The body was very sensitive to axle input. One fix that was not durable was to cut the tunnel in the rear seat area allowing the body to flex and not causing boom. It was necessary to use production representative parts in testing. Sometimes our parts were of a quality that we did not see on a volume basis.
    I now have and work on a 1968 Cobra Jet Mustang. Thanks

  21. #21
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,961

    Default

    I've had a raft of European Fox sized Fords.

    The Fox has a total lack of impact harshness over cement filler joins, the quietness of the very rough 2.3, the smoothness of the 3.3, and the silken quietness of the Standard Out put 5.0 and 255's were an object lesson in Noise Vibration and Harshness suppression. The Cologne V6 was also much smoother than the same kind of Cologne engine in 2.3 form in out 1980-1982 TF Cortina V6's.


    Welll done fellla!


    The Fox platfrom was a world away from the vibration prone ZF Atlas 7.5" axled Cortina/Taunus and Granada from Europe. The T car (TC1/TC/TD/TE/TF Tanus and Cortina) and the Mark I and Mark II Granada.



    The axle counterweight and the way the 6.7" Sterling and 7.5 " axles and French C3 transmission was butter smooth has been a constant source of amazment to me.


    When I got into my Aussie TE Cortina 2.0 with the Pinto engine, FOG 4 speed and 7-7/8" axle, it was a vibrating haulk. My 87 EFi Australian Fairmont station wagon and 4.1 84 Falcon GL, same noisy suspension and lack of refinment the 1980 Cortina had.

    Body engineering of the doors reduced the noise over rough surfaces...no rattles!

    The RIM mouldings in the front wheel arches, the car is exceptionally quiet over gravel roads and over bumps.


    The return of the 5.0 GT and the twin intake air cleaner made the Fox sound like a true Muscle Car, while the 4.2 auto with single intake air cleaner is very quiet.

    Each car was well tuned to its place in the market. The sales figures were through the roof, even when launched in the most depressed marketplace for 20 years. My family had a whole bunch of US sourced cars, and the work done on making the Fox Fords quiet made them MUCH quieter than the Australian and European Fords at the time.

  22. #22
    FEP Super Member roush235's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lebanon, TN
    Posts
    2,647

    Default

    This question may be getting too technical, but I'll try anyhow.

    You mentioned "vibration/boom." Vibration I understand, and I think I know what 'boom' is, but not sure. Can you give an semi-technical explanation of what it is? Also, what can cause it, and what are cures? You mentioned cutting the floor tunnel to solve a problem. That suggests to me that the problem, in that case, was related to the shape of the structure in conjunction with the qualities of the material(s)?

    I suspect it could get very frustrating if you were tuning a car using pre-production part x, then finding that the mass-production version was different enough that you had to go back and do your work again.

    We really appreciate all the interesting info you are providing.
    Bob in Lebanon, TN
    79 original owner six cylinder coupe
    MCA Gold Card judge for 3rd Generation cars

  23. #23
    Venomous Moderator Hissing Cobra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Wareham, Massachusetts
    Posts
    9,720

    Default

    Welcome to the site! It's great to have someone here who was actually working for Ford back when our cars were new. I'm sure you'll have a lot to add to this community!
    Pete Slaney

    1979 Mustang Cobra

    347/T-5/4.30's
    420 rwhp/380 rwt (New Motor)
    11.49 @ 121.86

    306/T-5/4.30's (Old Motor)
    307 rwhp/278 rwt
    12.38 @ 111.38

  24. #24
    FEP Power Member black1980fiveoh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    British Columbia Canada
    Posts
    1,307

    Default

    Welcome. This web site and its members are the most die hard car people I've seen and met. The information you have shared is interesting, can't wait to hear more.

    Was it a simple cost saving measure to go with the 4 link rear suspension? or was that just seen as a huge step up from the leaf springs on the II? The fox body cars get some criticism for a lack of a panard bar and the 4 link configuration.

    Be sure and check out the Facebook page also. Lots of pictures of amazing 79-86 mustangs/capris/SVOs/Fairmounts and a few T-birds.

    Oh and "thanks" for the 4.2 litre V8 and 2.26 rear gears. The saving grace for our cars is so much interchanges and there is a good amount of after market support. I often feel sorry for our Mustang II brothers and sisters.
    1980 Cobra http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2364382
    11.82@115 mph - 2015 - retired due to cancer
    1981 Cobra
    reborn with a lot of new go fast parts and time to make it look pretty
    11.80 @114 mph - 2016

  25. #25
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,961

    Default

    Welcome back to your post FoxEng

    As a follow on from 02-05-2019, 04:54 AM, are you on the team here?


    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...27#post1871727

    Please check with and PM http://vb.foureyedpride.com/search.php?searchid=1074128.

    Ask Roger (person 14 from left, behind the Dark Red car , white shirt no jacket, was a fuel engineer)



    The dark red Mercury Capri

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...k-for-Fox-Cars
    "http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/svo2scj/1978Fox.jpg"




    There was another power-train engineer who discussed the turbo 2.3 gearbox development and vibration and noise updates last year. Those guys normally hang out with certifications, so they have access to development info.

    An earlier non EFi fuel engineer will help you out.

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxEngr View Post
    I have posted in the New User section but someone suggested I move to this area- I will try and answer questions on topics I have knowledge about. This site is all new to me and I am very impressed at the large number of users and beautiful cars. It is pleasant to read of your excitement and enthusiasm for the Fox vehicles. I am remembering some of my favorite test prototypes and press shows where we showed off the new cars- the 1978 Fairmont/Zephyr Z7- 1979 Red Mustang V8 4 speed - 1980 WhiteTurbo Mustang - 1980 Red Capri - 1984 Thunderbird - I was assigned to the Light Vehicle Evaluation team for the Fox Program. I still have a favorite picture of me standing next to the 79 Capri on the Ford Test Track. Many of the Ford people were excited about our cars and jobs.
    The Vehicle Development group worked with prototypes about 1 year before production. We would try and improve things like engine response /ride motion and ease of operation. We worked out of the Experimental Garage and the Test Track next door. My job was primarily in Powertrain Evaluation. There was a different group that did engine calibration and Noise/Vibration/Harshness work. Thanks for your warm response to date. Roger


    Blue86's

    http://www.foureyedpride.com/content...inner-Blue86-s

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/member.php?4633-Blue86
    His dad is a retired Ford engineer as well. He worked at Ford for forty years. In the eighties he worked in engine development and SVO.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •