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  1. #26

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    Ackerman correction is in the pivot arm geometry.

    what you are shooting for is perfect alignment across the entire steering sweep as you go from straight to full left or right. Front tires working together make the drive around the parking lots more enjoyable and also add some badly needed steering authority that becomes extremely evident once the rear oversteer/snap steer is corrected.

    i corrected rear snapsteer on my 86 by removing the rear sway bar and softer 4cyl LX rear springs. It comes close to lifting the inside front tire on hard turns because there is still too much bar in front and it’s now also holding the rear. Very predictable at the edge which is now WAY past anything it would do Stock. Understeer while applying 300lbs of torque or so — what a concept! It used to go in a circle!

    Im adding a panhard to my “85 Saleen 006” build that has full vintage racecraft suspension. Adding Maximum Motorsports upper and lower control arms also. Going to see what better Ackerman and keeping weight on the inside tire does. Should help, and be fun.

  2. #27

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    Hustler — Glad you like the thread! I felt it was rather overdue. It took me a good long while to gather the info I needed for my car. Hopefully this will save someone time and money.

  3. #28

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    Forgot to say -- yea, stock pads are impossible to get now. They were asbestos. Super great brake material but considered quite hazardous today.

    I wish I would have known when I was a kid and sat there with a snips and drill cutting gaskets out of the stuff for my dad in the garage....

    Or when i helped change umpteen sets of brake pads on cars and trucks pre-1996.

    Or when we would rip flooring out of 100 year old storefronts back in the 80's.

    Even the stock pads do eventually fade though. I used to haul my car down from 140+ a lot because I have a lead foot, and they definitely had their limits. Sometimes the rotors would crack or out-right break from the torture I gave my brakes. The only part of the car that's a bigger joke than the 85 MPH speedometer IMO.

    I'm happy that I learned somewhere the 87-93 4cyl rotors are less massive and retain a LOT less heat than the 1986 rotors did and switched to them early. They were also a LOT cheaper parts too.

    The auto industry sorta silently swapped us all over as we each did brake rotors and pads on our four eyed foxes. You have to really pay attention to detail to even notice some cars like the 1986GT originally had a thicker disc and thinner pad.

  4. #29

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    I believe that jcook the oem ford parts guru used some 10 inch rear drums on his mustang and got very satisfying results. I recall him claiming that theyre as effective on is car as discs. I'm intrigued, because Im not quite sure how far my brake upgrades will be going.

    I just put SVO spindles, 87-93 v8 calipers, hawk pads, stop tech slotted rotors and mm brake lines and caliper sleeves on my 83, and Im very excited to try them out.
    '
    Tony

  5. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by flinfantryrebel View Post
    I believe that jcook the oem ford parts guru used some 10 inch rear drums on his mustang and got very satisfying results. I recall him claiming that theyre as effective on is car as discs. I'm intrigued, because Im not quite sure how far my brake upgrades will be going.

    I just put SVO spindles, 87-93 v8 calipers, hawk pads, stop tech slotted rotors and mm brake lines and caliper sleeves on my 83, and Im very excited to try them out.
    '
    WWould be great to get some comments on a large drum setup that works well in this thread. I know the info is around the FEP site because I’ve read it before.

    On the spindle swap - Awesome! Add some caster/camber plates before you align it if you don’t mind their looks. Or some onion heads for a vintage look.

    My 85 is nowhere near ready yet.

    Excited for you!
    Last edited by erratic50; 06-04-2018 at 04:09 AM.

  6. #31

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    One critical measurement I feel is missing from the thread is the 4 lug front rotor depth. What has to be accommodated cap to flange for a wheel to fit? Useful for guys swapping wheels but staying 4 lug.

    One thing I do know — the grease caps on the Fox are a lot taller than they need to be. Back in the day we would take them off and heat them up then smash the end flat from the inside using a socket and a jack or press. Made the cap bigger around on the end but nearly 1/2” shorter. Made all the difference on some of the 4 lug wheels that had a short center cap.

    Same idea as spacers without the effective offset change.

  7. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    On the spindle swap - Awesome! Add some caster/camber plates before you align it if you don’t mind their looks. Or some onion heads for a vintage look.

    My 85 is nowhere near ready yet.

    Excited for you!
    I actually did use maximum motorsports c/c plates. I also bought their camber gauge. Im comfortable setting toe, but we'll see how well I can do camber...
    Tony

  8. #33

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    Wow - this thread has ran away from the top . Dusting it off. Anyone else do some 4 lug stuff with great results?

  9. #34

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    I was thinking about doing this to my 84 GT. If I change the spindles and struts to 87-93, will my 10 holes still fit?

    https://lmr.com/item/SVE-2320BB/Fron...-Mustang-87-93

  10. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigB View Post
    I was thinking about doing this to my 84 GT. If I change the spindles and struts to 87-93, will my 10 holes still fit?

    https://lmr.com/item/SVE-2320BB/Fron...-Mustang-87-93
    Absolutely, yes 10 holes fit. They were on 87+ LX sport coupes and convertibles with V8.

    I must caution against that kit. It advertises the 73mm calipers are an upgrade and it’s simply untrue. Those are the same as SVO calipers and require the large bore 1 1/8” master cyl to run them.

    Discuss this “upgrade” path with Jack H before you waste your money. Yes I said waste.

    I suspect he will steer you towards the MM pad and line upgrades and caliper bushings and tell you to avoid the 73’s.


    i would get Hawk HPS pads for 87-93 in front, a steel piston reman 60 mm caliper, metal caliper bushings, upgraded brake lines to steel braided, rear disc brake conversion from North racecars, stoptech slotted rotors


    if you also want to address Ackerman for better steering too, SVO/Continental spindles with MM adapters and SN95 balljoints are a better path to larger front brakes.

    I mention what I’m doing to my Saleen build in its thread and some of it in this thread too


    Great 4 lug brakes are not cheap. I have 3x more in the setup on my 85 build and I doubt it will stop as well as my 1/2 million mile 86 build does with all the SN95 parts.
    Last edited by erratic50; 03-24-2019 at 11:15 AM.

  11. #36
    FEP Senior Member flyin5-o's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    WWould be great to get some comments on a large drum setup that works well in this thread. I know the info is around the FEP site because I’ve read it before.
    Not "big" but I ran stock 9" 8.8 drums with the MM rear shoes and '87-93 spindles on my '85 GT. I would highly recommend the MM rear shoes. I used 60mm stock steel piston calipers MM steel bushings and Russell DOT braided lines all around with EBC Green Stuff front pads. HUGE difference over stock with "premium" parts store pads/shoes. The EBC pads have great bite and wear fairly well, excellent for street/autocross.

    Don't forget tires, they are what is actually stopping the car.

  12. #37

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    a question came up about putting North Racecar brackets on a 7.5” rearend to add rear disc while staying 4 lug.

    It’s a direct bolt-on. The flanges on the 7.5 and 8.8 at the axle end are exactly the same, axles interchannge, etc.
    Last edited by erratic50; 03-24-2019 at 11:16 AM.

  13. #38

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    The Maximum Motorsports tests with their kit stopped a 1987-1993 GT in 110 feet from 60 MPH.

    This vs 155 from the 4 wheel disc SVO and 148 from the 1993 Cobra.

    Go rear disc and upgrade the pads and rotors, sub-100 ft is possible.

    Borrowing from factory parts bins 4 lug brakes are not going to be as good as the 5-lug setups but they can be shockingly better than Stock! Especially with a torquearm out back helping with brake dive.

  14. #39
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    So is a stock 87-93 spindle change with 11" disk a straight swap into a 79 with factory 10" front rotors? I'm not intending on using any OEM TRX or 14" (or 15" SSP steelies) anymore. I'm thinking I may want to plan to upgrade now versus later.

  15. #40
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    Should be, but you may need new struts for the thinner strut mount on the spindle unless you have spacers to run the wider older struts on the new spindles.
    '89 XR-7 5 Speed
    '95 SC 5 Speed
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  16. #41

    Default The Ultimate Four Eyed 4 Lug Brake Upgrade Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME View Post
    So is a stock 87-93 spindle change with 11" disk a straight swap into a 79 with factory 10" front rotors? I'm not intending on using any OEM TRX or 14" (or 15" SSP steelies) anymore. I'm thinking I may want to plan to upgrade now versus later.
    This is exactly my plan too. I want to use all Ford parts as much as possible. Car has TRX now but will be upgrading to either LMR TRXs or other wheels or both lol


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #42

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    I've been playing with a 4 lug brake update on my 84 Cougar for a while now. I finally achieved my results with the following:

    Front spindles and 11" stock rotors from 88 LX
    73mm calipers with steel pistons 84 Town car(OEM E4LY2B121A)
    HPS pads (HB125F.650)
    SS pin bushings from MM
    Braided SS flex lines
    1 1/16" MC from an 84 Lincoln TC
    Wilwood prop valve (https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...1179/overview/)
    15/16" wheel cyls (WAGNER WC 34876)
    Porterfield R4-S #569 shoes

    I posted a more detailed description here from mid page down.

    https://forums.corral.net/forums/gen...upgrade-4.html
    Last edited by quickshift; 09-29-2018 at 09:37 AM.
    84 Cougar, 90 HO with 700DP, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1.7 RRs, shorty's and SS exh, T-5, KC clutch, Hurst pro billet, line loc, 8.8, 4.10s, suspension mods....blah, blah,blah.

    71 Comet, 289, Liberty TL, 9", 6.00s, 11.9x @ 112.... blah, blah, blah.

  18. #43

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    Quickshift —that looks like a nice setup. The rear calipers pair OK with the 73’s up front? I suspect they do


    Picked up a tapered bumpsteer kit for my 85 build. The combo of the Racecraft suspension and SVO spindles with adapters is something not done before that I know of but should work well once done.
    Last edited by erratic50; 03-24-2019 at 11:20 AM.

  19. #44

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    Duplicate
    Last edited by erratic50; 12-15-2018 at 05:05 PM.

  20. #45

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    Why does it help with Ackerman ?

    Longer arm.

  21. #46

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    Ears off old struts are great for spacers.

  22. #47

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    Trey just did assembly on the mid80’s Racecraft/Saleen suspension on my 85 clone being built with SVO spindles

    What Trey found is not a surprise but isn’t readily documented — the holes on the strut or spindle have to be elongated or you have to use a camber bolt up top as two standard bolts will NOT fit.

    Also, the SVO used a design similar to the 87-93 spindles at the strut mount point. Spacers from strut kits designed to work for all 79-93 or ears off of old struts are needed.

  23. #48

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    The axle length and track width difference Tbird/Street 93 Cobra vs normal Mustang is why Northern Racing adapters were/are encouraged.

    Worth mentioning that the Tbird/cobra stuff “works” but is 3/4” wider in track width per side and normal wheels will rub most likely, just like 94-98 rear end with SN95 wheels also rubs. The track width + wheel offset is about the same, one vs the other just has an additional lug!

    if you choose 87-88 tbird/93 Cobra style brakes with normal foxbody Mustang axles — LMR carries hard lines that are the correct length and make everything seem factory. Direct bolt-on

    new hard brake lines for the rear axle due to foxbody mustang width rear disc conversion:
    https://lmr.com/item/SVE-1078C/Drum-...-Mustang-86-93












    You can bend your stock ones or re-double flare them, but the install is the cleanest with new hard lines


    Also the Maximum Motorsports makes a braided brake line kit designed for 86-98 (or maybe 2004?) 8.8 rear ends. When swapping to an 8.8 on 79-85 cars like everyone does — it makes sense to get the line bracket from LMR or a salvage yard.

    Rear Upper Brake Bracket .. MM braided brake line kit will not work with the 85 brake line bracket. need this one:https://lmr.com/item/LRS-2073BRKT/mu...-bracket-86-93













    If you are tore down for a build or just really hate cobbled up stuff you can also get 86+ front line to union and union to rear hard lines. You’ll end up with the factory brake line setup for 8.8 equipped cars — it works very well and accommodates true dual exhaust, etc.

    Last edited by erratic50; 01-22-2019 at 06:34 PM.

  24. #49

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    Trey used strut spacer plus the vintage mid 80’s Racecraft Koni struts on my 85 Racecraft equipped car during its rebuild. Picture of the setup with SVO spindles, MM spindle adapters, SN95 balljoints, braided brake hoses, etc

    As mentioned - the strut holes needed a slight reaming. Camber bolts is the other possible way to assemble but they aren’t as strong so factory bolts were blasted and refinished and carefully installed.

    I have to give Trey a lot of kudos on the appearance of the end result. The car we started with was pretty decent overall and low miles, but it spent some time on its lid and also some time in the infield as someone desperately tried to find a decent lap time.

    Now that the body work is done and the paint is fresh and everything is cleaned up under the car and the old parts have all been reconditioned and reassembled and mated with (thanks to Trey) new condition upgrade/update parts it really looks nice.

    Almost hate to put inner wheel wells on this one because everything looks so good!
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by erratic50; 01-22-2019 at 06:50 PM.

  25. #50

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    TRX wheels on 87+ V8 spindles

    Trey tried a TRX wheel on his 89


    “wheel/tire combo fit just fine without any clearance issues that I could see. The wheel spins freely with no rubbing or issues. I was not able to get under the car to get a better look at the backside due to the soggy ground. I did take some pictures trying to show the brake caliper clearance . . . they are not great, but maybe they will help someone. It felt like I could get my fingers between the top of the caliper and the inner wheel shell, so I don't think there are any issues.”

    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by erratic50; 02-01-2019 at 07:07 PM.

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